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 Post subject: Before I make such a bold clame...
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:22 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:05 pm
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Location: MA
I was going to say the F40PH set a standard like no other locomotive in American history. From the early days of the railroad until the birth of Amtrak there was never a stranded passenger locomotive. But in the last part of the 20th century if you were in the united states and you were going to be riding on a passenger train (outside the NEC) it was most likely going to be a F40PH as Amtrak and pretty much every commuter agency used them. However I thought it might be a good idea to run it across you guys first before I go making such a bold statement.


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 Post subject: Re: Before I make such a bold clame...
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:55 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:57 am
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Location: Faulkland, Delaware
It is safe to make your claim if you qualify it. Yes, the F-40 was a single, nationally used locomotive on a network of passenger trains that has been the backbone of passenger trains for a generation. Now with that said, the network of trains operated in the F-40 era is just a shadow of what ran in the previous generation.

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 Post subject: Re: Before I make such a bold clame...
PostPosted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:32 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2076
stranded passenger locomotive? Like the day a passenger train was stuck in the mountains in the cold winter weather?


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 Post subject: Re: Before I make such a bold clame...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 12:32 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
I think he meant "claim" and "standard."

Many railways had standard passenger engines.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: Before I make such a bold clame...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 6:08 am 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
The f unit, now THAT set a standard.

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 Post subject: Re: Before I make such a bold clame...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:24 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Baltimore, MD
Kind of have to agree with Softwerkslex--if you're talking a model/configuration, the EMD F3/7/9 kind of trumps the F40PH.

Now, as a single model in a single common paint scheme nationwide, I'd go with the Amtrak F40PH. But, since your earlier professed goal was saving an MBTA F40PH, I'm not sure that arguing "Amtrak units were special, so we want to save an MBTA unit" is quite the tack to take..........


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 Post subject: Re: Before I make such a bold clame...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:28 am 
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Location: Eagan, MN
This thread has absolutely nothing to do with railway preservation that I can see and has been moved to railfanning. Feel free to continue the senseless slaughter of innocent electrons with abandon.

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 Post subject: Re: Before I make such a bold clame...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:39 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:59 pm
Posts: 323
Location: western Maryland
Production Totals

SDP40F - 150
F40PH - 284

F3A - 1,111
F3B - 696
F7A - 2,366
F7B - 1,483
F9A - 87
F9B - 154

Words, and numbers, mean things.

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 Post subject: Re: Before I make such a bold clame...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 9:44 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:59 pm
Posts: 323
Location: western Maryland
"This thread has absolutely nothing to do with railway preservation that I can see . . . "

Preservation, yes. Steam propulsion, no. We get it. Only subject matter related to steam engines is relevant preservation discussion.

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 Post subject: Re: Before I make such a bold clame...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:07 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
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ok, I see the drift. Every railroad had its specific needs and had steam engines designed to their specific needs, there wasn't any perfect standard, every passenger engine had its tweaks differrent from other railroads. Same for freight engines. N&W had M2c 4-8-0's designed for heavy grades, one was sold to another railroad and just did not perform to their needs, so it becomes railroad specific.

There really isnt any one specific standard passenger diesel engine, its still specific to the purpose, AMTRAK is a national service so the effect makes it look universal, you still use the best design for your need. And you build the engine to the need.


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 Post subject: Re: Before I make such a bold clame...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 10:35 am 
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Permit me to comment a bit further. I am fascinated by diesels as well as steam and a supporter of diesel locomotive preservation in a number of locations and venues. However, re-reading the entire thread there's nothing preservation related in it.

You may summarize the thread simply: The F40PH is a wondrous fine locomotive and should be preserved. Similar steam locomotive related threads have been consigned to the dustbin, and probably will be in the future as well.

Please do feel free to discuss this locomotive endlessly in the railfanning section. But until someone buys one, receives the donation of one, and begins wrenching on it, I won't take it seriously.

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 Post subject: Re: Before I make such a bold clame...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:29 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:20 pm
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This is the Amtrak workhorse I grew up with and remember it with some fondness. In the 80's and 90's in my youth I rode the Pioneer and Empire Builder between Chicago and Seattle multiple times and remember watching these units up front as we went through famous American railroad scenery on the DRGW, UP, CBQ, and GN. An F40PH would be a worthwhile save but so many museums have their back lots maxed out with stuff already. Where to fit one in and who will pay? The perennial question I guess.


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 Post subject: Re: Before I make such a bold clame...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 11:37 am 

Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 11:27 am
Posts: 420
Location: Switching the Coach Yard
I believe the question was Passenger diesel, and I'd stipulate that the answer would have to be EMD's "E" series, and most likely the E-7 or E-8 models. The E-7 having the largest production total, and the E-8 or E-9 being the pinnacle of the technology.

I would tend to discount the "F" series generally, although there could be some argument that the FP-7 should have a seat at the table. Plus the F-40PH is just plain ugly by comparison.


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 Post subject: Re: Before I make such a bold clame...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:35 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 726
Location: Tucson, Arizona
GP-7 set the standard for general purpose locomotives.

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 Post subject: Re: Before I make such a bold clame...
PostPosted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 3:13 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8354
Location: Baltimore, MD
There are, thus far, two Amtrak F40PH's that have been specifically preserved as such--one at the North Carolina Railroad Museum in Spencer, and one at the California State RR Museum in Sacramento. Others make a living in rail-preservation-related enterprises such as the Grand Canyon Railway and Iowa Interstate's football specials. So there goes THAT excuse.

The original poster is/has been working to lobby to preserve a third, ex-MBTA, F40PH, and the original post in this thread apparently relates to language he wishes to use in promoting the case and cause. He is wise to ask for verification before potentially making rather public mistakes which could undermine his case.

So, YES, it IS about railroad preservation. Or, at least, attempted/planned preservation. Which is a lot more than I can say about page after page of scanned photos.

By this arbitrary standard, we can't discuss B&LE 643, Amfleet, the Stillwater dinner train F's, the "Minnesota & Western" locos, the stranded Mohawk & Hudson rolling stock, etc. until they get to a museum, either.


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