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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:39 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:33 pm
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Location: Oroville, CA
Lincoln wrote, "You can do all the right things and still end up unemployed."
Boy do I know that one, and at 60, no one wants to hire you! So now I'm "self-employed" Oh well, that's how I started out anyways.

Ah yes, if there is 100% quality control and reliability, who needs diesel helper?? Good point!! :)

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Write your congressman to support and co-sponsor House Resolution HR-619. This bill only grants her permission to run; there is no cost to us taxpayers.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:58 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 895
I would like to see the 'right' questions addressed to Ms. Kelley, perhaps with a request that she make her own presentation about how quality systems apply to the heritage steam program. It might make sense to reference the 'best practice manual' effort we're starting, and invite her thoughts in general on that effort.

Edited: Contact information is available through Union Pacific; at Tim Reynolds' suggestion (and per mod note) I have removed the detail here.

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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 8:40 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Another Trainorders thread with information and photos taken during the roundhouse tour over the weekend. The poster "tehachapi-dave" started off with photos from ORHF in Portland, the Cheyenne photos and info start a few posts down, so I've linked to the first Cheyenne post: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,3746377#3746435

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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 6:38 am 

Joined: Sat Feb 09, 2013 11:26 am
Posts: 47
Several updates including pictures of the shop modifications and 844's strange backhead modifications (supposedly from the UP 'steam era') have been posted on the facebook page.

For what it's worth

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Union-Pa ... 1036621755


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 7:46 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 270
soups wrote:
Several updates including pictures of the shop modifications and 844's strange backhead modifications (supposedly from the UP 'steam era') have been posted on the facebook page.

For what it's worth


There is an unappealing tone in the coments and I'll leave it at that. Moving on. The thread on CAD modeling and simlulation brings out an intersting point about design and drafting back in the day. Basically the folks working to CAD model the T-1 are finding how craftmanship on the shop floor closed the gaps between paper and metal. Sometimes the design didn't work as intended and "undrafted or documented changes" were made in the field to make the thing work. I suspect the "strange backhead modifications" are one of a few things. A test of new/different techniques, modifications needed to fix a design error, or put in to please an inspector (who knows). Hard to be perfect with these machines that's why there are things like tolerances and safety factors.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 10:02 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 710
Those are not modifications and they do not violate any codes. If so, I have not located the codes.

And besides, anyone who can't see that a pipe nipple on a stud is a spacer
is not smart enough to be making value judgements about a machine.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Fri May 22, 2015 10:47 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5252
Location: southeastern USA
Against my better judgment, I just glanced at a few of the pictures and a few of the comments and captions.......... Apart from some work being under way I don't know what's going on here in any larger sense. Based on the commentary, many of the posters there don't even know that they don't know what's going on there even in a specific sense. UP will do what UP does and get to where they decide they want to be in the way they want to make the journey, and best wishes to them and I'm certainly looking forward to seeing the result if and when they wish to provide it.

Gotta go with Linc on this one.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:23 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 270
I went back with some more time and looked at several of the pics on FB. Yep Lincon now I see that moderator of that page is going on about the various studs welded on. That's not a modification - that's "istallation" as there are only a few controls, valves, etc on the backhead. I guess I got thrown a bit by what looks like counter sunk flexible staybolt sleaves and the welded caps -esp the ones in the corner of the backhead. I'll plead ignorance on my part as I'm simply not familiar with that. On a more educational note, how common are welded caps on what I'm calling countersunk sleaves? Kinda answering my own question. Got out my copy of Motive Power of the Union Pacific and on page 191 there is an excellent photo of 3950's backhead showing all of those welded caps. All the flexibles have them.

And now there is a thread on the MK welded caps etc. viewtopic.php?f=1&t=38113


Last edited by TimReynolds on Tue May 26, 2015 9:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 1:25 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 710
See pages 296-299 of the 1941 Locomotive Cyclopedia.

Also see hundreds of photos on the factory floor. This firebox
and thousand of others were designed and built that way.

A long established practice that violates nothing. But a tiny handful
who have never seen it before, don't understand it, and won't
research it, and instead point with alarm to it.

Apparently it never occurred to these newly-minted experts that
their statements reveal how little they know and understand about
locomotive boiler construction techniques, ASME codes, and FRA
rules.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 9:00 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 423
Location: Floyd, AR
I'm kinda interested to see how they intend to hold all the locomotive goodies on without attaching them to the boiler.

Moving or redesigning the studs also means you have to rework the brackets that attach to them. NOTHING is going to line up when they put the engine back together!

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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Sat May 23, 2015 10:49 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:41 pm
Posts: 378
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Pegasuspinto wrote:
I'm kinda interested to see how they intend to hold all the locomotive goodies on without attaching them to the boiler.

Moving or redesigning the studs also means you have to rework the brackets that attach to them. NOTHING is going to line up when they put the engine back together!


How do you "redesign" a stud? There is a tapered end that screws into the boiler shell and a straight threaded end that supports whatever is put on it. Relocate, maybe. Change size, maybe. "Redesign", not possible.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 10:24 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 423
Location: Floyd, AR
You need to read the posts above and view the facebook page. Because UP steam seems quite intent on doing just that. (When I say stud they are mostly welded on studs)

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Any information or opinions I express are my own, and are not the views of the CBRHS or anyone else, unless explicitly stated otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 12:56 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:33 pm
Posts: 284
Location: Oroville, CA
while I consider myself pretty familiar with boilers, I will admit that technology improves, so what was once not considered safe practice, is now accepted practice (Like pad welding a thin spot). So for not only my curiosity, but for the other readers who may be afraid to ask, are welded-on studs considered good practice nowadays? I'm more of a drill and tap kinda guy, but willing to learn.
Hmm maybe they are considering adding a strap around the boiler on which to attach the studs ??? No holes in the barrel then (but how do you keep the strap from moving??) Just thought I'd throw out a "wild & craaazy idea" there. :)

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David Dewey
Help save the last overnight steamboat, Delta Queen!
Write your congressman to support and co-sponsor House Resolution HR-619. This bill only grants her permission to run; there is no cost to us taxpayers.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 2:42 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 710
The difference is that the studs in question are welded on solely to support the lagging
and jacket, or gauge brackets. These are not and never were pressure-retaining parts,
therefore they do not need to be drilled and tapped, nor do they have to be made of code material and documented by MTRs.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Sun May 24, 2015 3:17 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 895
Lincoln Penn wrote:
These are not and never were pressure-retaining parts,
therefore they do not need to be drilled and tapped, nor do they have to be made of code material and documented by MTRs.


But watch them claim there is a risk of HAZ in the backhead sheet where the old studs were welded on, and they had to do appropriate testing to 'confirm' the integrity of the steel, etc. etc. etc.

Next thing I expect to see is a 'redesign' with one-piece studs cut to length instead of with the 'adjustable' pipe nipple in the middle. Watch for the updated version of the old Murphy's Law item about 'any wire cut to length will be too short..." !

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