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 Post subject: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:10 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:06 pm
Posts: 122
As some of you may know, I'm sort of a student of Disney railroad history, having written two books about the trains at Disneyland in California. Because of my association in this regard, I am sometimes privy to "inside information," which may or may not be accurate, and which may be fluid, subject to change at any time. So take the following for what it's worth.

Of late, there has recently been a rise in the amount of chatter I've been hearing--most coming from very highly-placed (and which will remain confidential) sources--that the days of operational steam locomotives at Florida's Walt Disney World will soon to be coming to an end. New steam-outline diesel-hydraulic locomotives will be built, and the genuine steam locomotives are to be phased out and mothballed over the next few years. One may be put on display. Cited reasons for this change are decreased maintenance and personnel costs.

I realize that some here may look down on the Disney trains as merely "amusement park trains." I also realize that there are many people on this Forum who have gone to Disney World and seen first hand the steam operation, and appreciate it for what it is, and that this forum is all about "railway preservation." While the engines and trains may be gaudy with the bright paint and brasswork, and look nothing like how they looked when they left the Baldwin shops early in the last century, they are in fact genuine "full size" narrow-gauge steam engines. I cannot help but feel that removing steam from this Park would be doing a great disservice, not only to Disney fans, but to rail fans as well.

The steam trains in California--being held to a different standard as actually being part of Walt Disney's personal legacy--are safe for now.

I think I can safely say that more people have been exposed to actual operational steam locomotives through their visits to Disneyland and Walt Disney World than all the tourist railroads in the country combined. I for one think it would be a massive shame for the four Walt Disney World engines, with their Baldwin pedigrees, to go cold forever, but that is what I'm hearing more and more.

Disney doesn't think there will be much protest. I'm hoping they've grossly miscalculated.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:54 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8356
Location: Baltimore, MD
And now we wait for some Yucatan railfans to mount a repatriation movement......


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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:26 am 

Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:45 pm
Posts: 70
IF this comes to pass, I can only hope the equipment finds a second life outside Disney. It happened with the Fort Wilderness equipment, though decades after the line closed.


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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:47 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 7:17 pm
Posts: 543
Location: Ballard, WA
So....... this is a rumor?


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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:51 am 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 1903
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
Chris Salmonson wrote:
So....... this is a rumor?

I sure hope so, as this is being discussed on the Disney trains page (Steve is posting there, too, though): http://www.burnsland.com/disneyrailroads/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=4896

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Last edited by p51 on Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:54 am 

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:06 pm
Posts: 122
I suppose anything is a rumor until it actually happens. Like an operational Big Boy.

But from where I sit, it isn't a rumor.

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Last edited by Steve DeGaetano on Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:57 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2332
The Disney "Magic Behind Our Steam Trains" tour is a great experience. If there is any substance to this rumor, perhaps booking the tour for this year would be wise?

I highly recommend it for both the casual visitor and the hard core steam guy,

Rob


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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:11 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5254
Location: southeastern USA
Disney runs more steam trains more intensively for more customers more successfully than any of our tourist railroads much less museums. We have a lot to learn from them......and we all will be diminished by their loss. Let's hope this is just a rumor of a possibility that will not come to pass.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:18 am 
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
robertjohndavis wrote:
The Disney "Magic Behind Our Steam Trains" tour is a great experience. If there is any substance to this rumor, perhaps booking the tour for this year would be wise?
I highly recommend it for both the casual visitor and the hard core steam guy
I did this in 2011. I had a great time, but the discussion on the history of Disney afterward went way long for my family. I was there with my wife, Mom and Dad. My parents aren't quite as mobile as they used to be and all that walking got to my Mom quite a bit (the walking isn't bad for anyone with decent legs but it's really far for someone with walking issues). And people were actually falling asleep by the time we got to the station near the end. It was well over 4 hours total. I could have spent all day listening to it, but my family was actually getitng ready to leave when it wrapped up. The bonus on it was my parents really didn't want their pins (they give you one once you do the tour), so now I have three of them! My wife said she was keeping hers as "a badge of endurance"...

Image

Image

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:43 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Steve DeGaetano wrote:
I am sometimes privy to "inside information," which may or may not be accurate, and which may be fluid, subject to change at any time. So take the following for what it's worth.


Then the title of the post needs to be along the lines of "Disney World (FL) Steam, Rumored to Possibly Be Going Cold at an Undetermined Point in the Future"

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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:03 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:06 pm
Posts: 122
wilkinsd wrote:
Then the title of the post needs to be along the lines of "Disney World (FL) Steam, Rumored to Possibly Be Going Cold at an Undetermined Point in the Future"

A rumor is a circulating story or report of "uncertain or doubtful truth."

According to my sources, the report is neither undertain nor doubtful.

The moderators can change the title as they see fit, but I won't.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:17 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Steve DeGaetano wrote:
According to my sources, the report is neither undertain nor doubtful.

The moderators can change the title as they see fit, but I won't.


If what you say above is the case and this is established, certain fact, then why did you spend an entire paragrah in your first post preemptively covering your behind?

Either your information IS or it IS NOT accurate. If you have to cover your behind, then it is not fact and should not be reported as such. I know we live in a postmodern society where the "truth" is allegedly "fluid" but that will not fly with most people. If you are not willing to stand behind your information as "fact" then do not report it as such, while giving you an escape hatch.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:53 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:06 pm
Posts: 122
Believe what you wish.

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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:24 pm 
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Steve DeGaetano wrote:
Believe what you wish.
David's right, your first post doesn't read like anything conclusive at all. Go back and read it to see what he's talking about.
I also find it odd that you're apparently the only person saying this, in more than one venue, even among a huge group of Disney Train fans on the burnsland forum. With all the insiders there, doesn't it seem strange that you alone know this?
And if it's such a given thing, why all the non-commital language? If you're being told all this stuff, they didn't say anything with any details?

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 Post subject: Re: Disney World (FL) Steam to go Cold
PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:52 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2438
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Steve DeGaetano wrote:
I suppose anything is a rumor until it actually happens. Like an operational Big Boy.


Further, this statement does nothing to further validate your truth. Whether UP is restoring a Big Boy or not is imaterial to your claim that WDW is getting rid of steam locomotives. First, you did not break the Big Boy story. Second, WDW is not involved in restoring the Big Boy, so your "insider sources" did not tip you off to the acquisition and restoration of a Big Boy by UP. Simply trying to use something that has actually happened (UP acquiring a Big Boy) to give credibility to your claim that WDW is abandoning steam is an arguer's trick. Both "rumors" exist in seperate worlds and have nothing do to with each other. Proving one claim true does not make your claim true.

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