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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 2:08 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:27 pm
Posts: 111
Location: Flat Rock, MI
soups wrote:
I can't help but wonder what affect this project may have on the momentum of the 2100 project. Though it's a great thought for a railfan to think that two T-1s may be eventually in service again at the same time, this announcement - though rather cryptic still - has to take some of the wind out of the 2100 camp's sails. I hope for their sake that the fundraising still continues in a positive direction.


I was actually wondering if the 2100 project has something to do with 2102's revival. Think about it. You have 2 groups (not that far in distance mind you, only a few hours drive) working on/inspecting for returning the SAME type class sister steam locomotives to service in the coming 2-3 years. I think there is too much of a coincidence there. One group has things the other might need. Technical information, tools, and general knowledge could be moved and shared to bring both of these girls back to steam thanks to the internet and everything else in modern technology.

Projects like 611 and 765 showed Eastern non-railfan audiences the past is alive and well, and they still are show stoppers. It also showed the preservation community that anything is possible with a good crew, perseverance and clear signals.

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:29 am 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 399
I don't see how one has anything to do with the other. For as much as some on this site want to believe in an all- knowing rail consortium that secretly cherry picks projects with a master plan in mind, it just ain't so. Andy couldn't care less about what anybody else is doing with equipment that he doesn't own, IMO. He has wanted to see 2102 under steam for a while now, and this news only shows his desire to do that, and it's still dependant on what is found during the tear down. I don't know how much time 425 has on her clock, or if Andy plans to run more than one steam engine at a time, but he can charge a premium for steam and if ridership is up, then it's just business albeit with a little guilty pleasure mixed in.

As I alluded earlier, if the R&N wins their suit against the NE Rail Authority and the D-L, that just may open up the possibility of passenger excursions to Scranton. Don't think that Andy isn't weighing all of his possibilities and what will be required to keep the money rolling in.


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 3:57 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:27 pm
Posts: 111
Location: Flat Rock, MI
I'm sorry, I guess I would have thought there could be some joint help done between Andy and ASR for both the T-1's sake.

Also, not to change the subject, but what is this suit against the NE Rail Authority and the DL that you refer to? Some us are in the dark about that.

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:39 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:45 pm
Posts: 190
Location: Boyertown, PA
A quick search turned up this, along with a multitude of other articles illustrating the same thing. http://standardspeaker.com/news/schuylk ... -1.1607084

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:33 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8356
Location: Baltimore, MD
At one point there were THREE full-sized steam locomotives of identical design sitting within 75 miles of one another undergoing some degree of restoration/overhaul. As far as I know, there was never any coordination between the private operator of one line, the non-profit owner of the second, and the for-profit corporation owning the third.

So this thing of "not talking to one another" is hardly new.

Incidentally, all three are still within 100 miles of one another. Only one runs at the moment.


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:29 am 

Joined: Sun Dec 30, 2007 6:01 pm
Posts: 52
The 425 has 7 years left on the clock. I can tell you his decision to work on the 2102 has nothing to do with the happenings of the 2100.


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:47 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1604
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
My gut is that Andy has the facts on his side in the lawsuit. His basic argument is that as that piece of railroad ( Scranton-Portland,Pa.) is commercially viable ( operates positive cash flow year in/year out) it should be a private sector tax paying entity not a non tax paying public sector creature.

He also contends that the current DO contract was awarded in violation of Pa. law governing such contracts.

The way the system works this will be in the courts a good while yet before its decided but at the end of the day I think the odds are in Andy's favor.

Should he end up running/owning that rr it would be an appropriate place to run big steam. HOWEVER, it would require his working out a cooperative agreement with Steamtown ( use of boarding depot, parking etc.) even if all the equipment were his and that could be an issue?

IMHO the only connection between the 2100 and 2102 subjects is the identical nature of the locos.

Let's hope Andy is in a good mood when the cost estimate hits his desk and he gives it a highball !!!

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:16 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
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Location: Youngstown, OH
If there was such a "mastermind" of steam, they would have quickly concluded that given the cost of a loco restoration, it would be far away more practical to just restore one loco and change out numberboards and cab decals depending on what number it is wanted to be for the next trip.

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 12:25 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:33 am
Posts: 62
Location: Batavia, Ohio
This may have bearing as to why Mr. Muller is looking into restoring 2102:

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/s ... 01/13/2016


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 1:51 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:35 pm
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Location: NJ
R&N just leased an additional line in the Hazelton area from NS as well. I think that lease started the first of the year.

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 4:48 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
I seriously doubt that one locomotive has an effect on the others in this case. That being said, a "Reading Rambles" style of operation would be a powerful draw to news organization, families, and old goats like myself and most of you. I know there will be those who insist on Steamtown dropping everything and turning attention and funds toward 2124, too!

NO, I AM NOT ADVOCATING THAT COURSE!

That fact that four of the same class, connected to a railfans romance story of 50 years, is a miracle in its own right.

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Last edited by Richard Glueck on Wed Jan 13, 2016 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 7:40 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:16 am
Posts: 86
Location: Bristol, Virginia
Just out of curiosity, when did the 2102 last steam? I saw one reference to 10/26/1991. Did it just run out of flue time under the old regs or was there a known problem that took it out of service.

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:09 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2010 9:31 am
Posts: 399
gcrr wrote:
Just out of curiosity, when did the 2102 last steam? I saw one reference to 10/26/1991. Did it just run out of flue time under the old regs or was there a known problem that took it out of service.


1990 or 1991. Long enough that she has to get ultrasound tested and have a form 4 drawn up. Last I heard she mainly needed firebox work and all the usual wear items - running gear, new tires, etc. If Andy wants to pre-sell excursion tickets to raise the cash, count me in. Otherwise, keep supporting the 425 and hope for a good economy.


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:40 pm 

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:28 pm
Posts: 170
Location: Northern WV
I rode an excursion with 2102 in late fall of 1991. Photos are from runby at Port Clinton.


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:28 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8356
Location: Baltimore, MD
6-18003 wrote:
gcrr wrote:
Just out of curiosity, when did the 2102 last steam? I saw one reference to 10/26/1991. Did it just run out of flue time under the old regs or was there a known problem that took it out of service.


1990 or 1991. Long enough that she has to get ultrasound tested and have a form 4 drawn up. Last I heard she mainly needed firebox work and all the usual wear items - running gear, new tires, etc. If Andy wants to pre-sell excursion tickets to raise the cash, count me in. Otherwise, keep supporting the 425 and hope for a good economy.


It took me this to realize that many of the "young guns" foaming trackside at 611 and 765 in recent years hadn't even been BORN yet when 2102 last steamed, about the time many of us "old geezers" were getting "bored" since they couldn't get out on the main lines of Conrail from Reading any more. No wonder they're so gung-ho to see some action out of a purportedly "ready-to-go" 4-8-4 that's been "hiding" for decades now.......


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