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 Post subject: Streamlined 6-4-4-6?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:57 am 

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:28 pm
Posts: 162
Location: Northern WV
In a post from "Vintage News" that appeared on my Facebook page, there was an article about the New York Central train "The Mercury". The article described the roll that Henry Dreyfuss played in streamlining the J2 Hudson locomotive. There were photos of them on page 1 of the article. Then on page 2, there were more photos that were captioned J2 but clearly showed what appeared to be a streamlined 6-4-4-6 locomotive. Was this an experimental NYC locomotive or has someone included photos of another railroad's streamlined steamer? Or could this be a photoshopped combination of vintage photos?

http://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/11/1 ... -designed/

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Roger Cole


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined 6-4-4-6?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 12:30 pm 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 959
Location: Leicester, MA.
WVNorthern wrote:
In a post from "Vintage News" that appeared on my Facebook page, there was an article about the New York Central train "The Mercury". The article described the roll that Henry Dreyfuss played in streamlining the J2 Hudson locomotive. There were photos of them on page 1 of the article. Then on page 2, there were more photos that were captioned J2 but clearly showed what appeared to be a streamlined 6-4-4-6 locomotive. Was this an experimental NYC locomotive or has someone included photos of another railroad's streamlined steamer? Or could this be a photoshopped combination of vintage photos?

http://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/11/1 ... -designed/

That's the solitary PRR S1 that you're refering to. Raymond Loewy is the chap in the picture;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRR_S1#/m ... -Loewy.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined 6-4-4-6?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 4:16 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 909
Hi,

If I recall correctly, the PRR S1 6-4-4-6 preceded the PRR S2 6-8-6 steam turbine that was made famous by Lionel when they built a O gauge model of it. The 6-8-6 was frequently in Lionel advertising.

Doug vV


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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined 6-4-4-6?
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 7:05 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 870
There are a couple of possibilities here.

First of all, you know there's high likelihood for error any time someone tells you there was a J2 Hudson with Dreyfuss streamlining in the first place. The J2s were the low-driver-diameter clones built for the B&A: all the Dreyfuss Hudsons but one were J3as, and the last was that most famous of the J1s 5344.

Second, if anyone gets points for the best hat trick of error in captioning photographs, that one on page 2 takes the cake: that is not a J2, is not in fact a Hudson at all, it does not have Dreyfuss streamlining and of course that's not Dreyfuss in the picture (this is a rather famous image), it was obviously neither built for the Mercury or used on that train, and was finished later than 1938. I suspect that someone at Vintage Rails inadvertently put the wrong photo URL into the code, and will fix it with some embarrassment when they realize what has happened...

The S1 was actually a collaboration between the three major builders to produce what was kind of the Viper of passenger locomotives: a large, extravagant cartoon far beyond the practical service needs of any then-extant railroad. So it might have been perceived (as I think it was for many Worlds-Fair goers) as the epitome of large, fast passenger power, and so used in promotional material. On the other hand, with Alco having a finger in the pie, it might make the use of the duplex configuration more likely -- as a 4-4-4-4 from that builder.

Hugh Guillaume has a 23-odd page description of proposed NYC class C1a, which was the NYC counterpart of the PRR T1 (with Baker gear, a larger firebox and Niagara-proportioned boiler, but still with the outside-frame lead truck). Staufer went so far as to provide an ink drawing of this locomotive in NYC Later Power. Now, there is a charming Pixel-Magic style version (with some of the fine details finessed a bit) that shows the famous Dreyfuss streamlining on top of obvious PRR T1 running gear ... but this is, just as billed, 'fantasy steam':

Image

which we discussed here years ago (in conjunction with the Lima 4-8-6)
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32900&start=15

The actual C1a would almost certainly not have been streamlined by that time, looking I expect just like a slightly longer Niagara. But I think the unconjugated duplex would have been much better suited for NYC service than PRR, particularly with the added issues of the Franklin type A gear being resisted (note how NYC used the idea on 5550, and how quickly that locomotive was retired and then scrapped compared to her sisters).

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 Post subject: Re: Streamlined 6-4-4-6?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 26, 2016 7:41 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:40 pm
Posts: 337
Location: Hamilton, Illinois
Mr. Ellsworth is quite correct, my fictitious "C-1a" has the cylinders, drivers and rods of a PRR T-1 -- even though those Baldwin-style disc drivers never appeared on a NYC engine (to my knowledge).

It's amazing, by the way that some viewers of my NYC Fantasy Steam page have failed to note the "Fantasy Feature" disclaimer and have taken the photos and text seriously. It's also amazing that a model manufacturer even reproduced my "lightning stripe" version of the shrouded Mercury Pacifics, http://www.railarchive.net/nyccollection/nyc_4917.htm.

After creating that page, I branched out with some "fantasy steam" for other railroads, http://www.railarchive.net/fantasysteam/index.html. I'm not a modeler, so I don't have the opportunity to kitbash brass or plastic models. My "kitbashing" has only been through these fantasy creations with my imaging program (not Adobe Photoshop, but the now-discontinued Paint Shop Pro 7).

(One quibble with the previous post: the NYC's short-lived Niagara with the poppet valves was the 5500, not the 5550.)

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