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 Post subject: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:54 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:37 pm
Posts: 216
I can think of the unrestored heavyweight Pullman sleeper Orange Colony at the Middletown & Hummelstown RR in PA. Are there others, and if so, where are they now?

K.R. Bell


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 9:58 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8353
Location: Baltimore, MD
Did I hear....... ummm..........

Weren't we all just listing a whole bunch of them a week or two ago?

I repeat: FIVE unrestored ex-camp car Pullmans (ex-PRR and NYC) at White Deer, Pa. in the hands of the Central Pa. Chapter NRHS, but regrettably land-locked by a collapsed bridge......

Horatio (12-1), McClellanville (12-1), Torrance (12-1), Urbana (12-1), and Voyager (10 Section 4 Duplex single rooms).


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1483
Location: Southern California
Orange Empire has two Pullmans:

1917 Built CORYDON which has 7 Compartments and 2 Drawings Rooms. Sold to 20th Century Fox in 1944. It is missing various do-dads.

Former 10 Section - 2 Drawing Room BISON PEAK which later was in Santa Fe wreck train service and the Drawing Rooms were converted; but the sections are intact.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:41 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:56 am
Posts: 341
Location: Northern California
The Western Railway Museum has one Pullman sleeping car. It is the Circumnavigators Club, an eight section , buffet, observation car. Other than several exterior coats of paint, it is in its out of service condition. The car was built in 1917 as the Brady, a 16 section sleeping car. Pullman converrted the car to its present configuration, plan 4025, in 1932. In 1934 the car received ice air conditioning, which it still has. Pullman retired the car in October 1965. When the car was retired it was in the two tone gray paint scheme. It is now in Pullman green. Since being retired it has been kept indoors about half of the time.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:58 am
Posts: 371
Location: Reston, VA
A quick look at the IRM roster shows 7 heavyweight Pullmans. Most appear to be in fairly complete condition. One of the IRM people will hopefully provide more details.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2010 11:53 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:56 am
Posts: 1330
Location: Roanoke Va.
VMT is home to the "Lake Pearl", famous for her years of service in the Southern/NS Steam Program. There are also 3 other heavyweight Pullmans which were modified into M of W service that make their homes in Roanoke. I'll research their history and post more info later.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 1:48 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:58 am
Posts: 371
Location: Reston, VA
A few more:

The Museum of Transport lists a 12S-DR car in their collection.

There were two at the Ohio Railway Museum, both ex PRR. I have heard that they were sold to the Dennison Depot Museum, but can not verify this.

Interestingly, as heavyweight sleeping cars lasted in Canada longer than in the U.S., the California State Railroad Museum got a CNR sleeper for its exhibit piece in the main museum. It is probably the best looking heavyweight sleeper around, complete with Pullman blankets! BTW, Canadian heavyweight sleepers were generally very similar to contemporary Pullman cars, but not identical.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 7:08 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2164
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Kurt, the car at M&H is actually "Orange State".

History: a 12-1 built 1925, assigned to "Overland Limited", then to GM&O in 1948. Last used as coach by GM&O (#2206) with no interior modifications. Sold 1968 into private ownership and eventually donated to RMNE in 1992. This car and "Mount Royal" (same private owner and donated to RMNE at same time) were stored at M&H.

RMNE prepped both cars for movement to Connecticut in 1993, but "Orange State" needed additional work and it was decided to offer her to other organizations. M&H became the new owner after other groups dropped out.

The car was in very nice shape, but had the misfortune to be spotted during transit from Texas to Pennsylvania in 1974, next to a carload of ties in East St. Louis. Thye carload of ties was set ablaze by miscreants and "Orange State" sustained interior fire damage to the drawing room.

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:31 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:37 pm
Posts: 244
Location: Niles Canyon Railway, near Sunol, CA
There is a wealth of well-researched information on heavyweight and lightweight Pullman cars at Dave Roth's website: http://www.pullmanshops.com/index.htm. Click over to the "Car Records" page. (The west coast Pullman shops were located in Richmond, CA - a few miles north of Oakland, and across the bay from San Francisco.)

Niles Canyon Railway has the 10 section - 2 DR "Gothic Peak". Originally a Pullman pool car, built 1926 per Pullman lot 6031, plan 3584A. Later it was used in the desert for years as an ATSF MOW bunk car, so there is almost no body corrosion [except in the vestibule]. It came into NCRy ownership from Golden Gate RR Museum, as partial payment for the Big Move 4+ years ago. Very similar to Orange Empire RR Museum's 10-2 "Bison Peak". The 10 open sections are basically intact - but missing hardware such as mirrors & berth curtains & berth safety nets; the 2 drawing rooms were gutted out to serve as shower & kitchen(?) areas. As part of the ongoing restoration, Niles Canyon Railway applied a new new roof coating last year.

Feather River RR Society (Western Pacific RR Museum) has "Clover Plot". Built 1920 as the 12-1 "Rampur", plan 2410F. Air conditioning was applied in 1937. In 1940, the interior floor plan was changed to to 8 open sections - 5 double bedrooms (reflecting the demand for more private accomodations and fewer open sections), and painted light-turquoise inside. 8-5 cars were used on the "Exposition Flyer" (CB&Q Chicago-Denver, D&RG Denver-Salt Lake City, W.P. Salt Lake City - Oakland Mole, & S.P.(?) ferryboat Oakland Mole to San Francisco), also S.P.'s Los Angeles - Tehachapi - Sacramento - Portland "West Coast". Leased to the W.P. in 1948, when Pullman was forced to divest themselves of car ownership. Painted two-tone-gray (the S.P./U.P. "Overland" scheme) in 1955. Withdrawn from W.P. lease in 1962. Sold to private owner (Tom Phair) in early-mid(?) 1960s. Last used on the May 1969 Centennial excursion train Oakland-Ogden-Oakland. Stored serviceable (with absolutely everything ready inside: blankets, towels, soap, etc) on the Sierra Railway, it was later utterly neglected by the caretaker paid to look after the car, and suffered serious interior water damage from a decaying roof and broken windows. Tom Phair donated the car to Golden Gate RR Museum in 1980s. Moved to San Francisco (Mission Bay), later to Hunter's Point ex-Navy shipyard. Johns-Manville "Dibiten" torch-down roofing membrane (about 1/4" thick) applied 1989 - it's still watertight!. GGRM donated the car to FRRS/WPRM 5 years ago as partial payment for assistance with the Big Move to Niles Canyon Railway. Interior has since been cleaned up significantly. A car with the same floor plan, "Clover Colony", has been restored and upgraded to Amtrak Tier-1 standards: http://www.pullmanshops.com/clovercolony.htm

(This posting has been corrected and updated with data from the remarkably detailed "Pullman Project" database, listed in a posting below. Thanks to Brian Norden for bringing this to my attention!)

- Doug Debs


Last edited by Doug Debs 2472 on Wed Sep 29, 2010 9:54 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 4:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:37 pm
Posts: 216
Many thanks to Howard, Doug, Art, Dave, et al for the information!

K.R. Bell


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 5:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:34 pm
Posts: 631
Location: Union, IL
artschwartz wrote:
A quick look at the IRM roster shows 7 heavyweight Pullmans. Most appear to be in fairly complete condition. One of the IRM people will hopefully provide more details.


Let's see what I can come up with looking through the irm.org roster...

AT&SF 1534 - 1914 HW lounge-dorm, non-operable, complete, good condition, on walk-through display
B&O Villa Falls - 1913 HW 10sec-3db sleeper, non-operable, complete?, moderate condition
C&NW Floyd River - 1928 HW 10sec-1comp-1dr sleeper, non-operable, complete?, moderate/poor condition
GN John McLoughlin - 1929 HW 8-1-2 sleeper, non-operable, incomplete, moderate/good condition
NYC Dover Strait - 1924 HW 6br-buffet-lounge, under major restoration
Pullman Glen Alta - 1925 HW 6comp-3dr sleeper, non-operable, incomplete, poor condition - not accessioned?
Pullman Glen Springs - 1925 HW 6comp-3dr sleeper, non-operable, complete, moderate/good condition
Pullman Inglehome - 1910 HW ?sec-lounge-obs, operable, complete, good condition

This includes the "Inglehome" and the AT&SF dorm-lounge but does not include three business/private cars, among which is NN "Ely," nor does it include various non-sleeping car heavyweights in the collection.

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Preserved North American Electric Railway Equipment News
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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 10:07 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1483
Location: Southern California
Doug Debs 2472 wrote:
There is a wealth of well-researched information on heavyweight and lightweight Pullman cars at Dave Roth's website: http://www.pullmanshops.com/index.htm. Click over to the "Car Records" page. (The west coast Pullman shops were located in Richmond, CA - a few miles north of Oakland, and across the bay from San Francisco.)
Thanks for sharing the link.

Tom Madden (he has written for some of the modeling and technical societies) has a website named The Pullman Project. This contains transcribed information from the Pullman record cards now at the Newberry Library in Chicago. The information contains built dates, rebuilding dates, dates AC was added, special paint schemes, dispositions, etc. As he says: "A compendium of Pullman passenger car information for the railroad historian and modeler and Gateway to the downloadable Pullman database – now over 13,460 records!"

A wonderful resource.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Sep 28, 2010 11:57 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:58 am
Posts: 371
Location: Reston, VA
Frank:
I did not include the 1544 as it was never operated by the Pullman Company. Thanks for the condition report. I knew that there was one car that was not in good condition and that IRM did not intend to keep but I did not remember which one it was.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:26 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:59 am
Posts: 6
The former New Haven RR Pullman Murray Hill is alive and well in Tulsa Oklahoma. The car formerly ran on the Federal Express between Boston and DC and was one of the few NH lettered cars painted in PRR colors. The car ended up on the Tulsa Sapulpa Union Ry in Sapulpa OK, just South of Tulsa and was used as a Biz car. It later became a part of the defunct Sunbelt NRHS. After sitting around rotting away for a few years a local service group, SERTOMA (Service To Mankind) had some volunteers restore the car so that it can be displayed at the Route 66 Historical Site being built along Route 66 in West Tulsa near BNSF's Cherokee Yard.
The car will be on display with the former Frisco Meteor steam engine 4500, a tank car and a restored Frisco wood caboose.
The Murray Hill has been painted in TSU colors and the car name has quotes on it. Perhaps in the future that will be changed.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:29 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 8:21 pm
Posts: 195
Location: Danbury, CT
"Breslin Tower” Pullman Sleeping Car
Built in May 1925 as the Pullman Company sleeping car “Point Bank.” In 1939, it was rebuilt into its present configuration of 8 sections (upper and lower berths), 1 drawing room (a luxury two-person private room) and 3 double bedrooms (an inexpensive two-person room), Plan 4090. In 1948, the car became the property of the New Haven Railroad, although the Pullman Company continued to operate the car. “Breslin Tower” and sister cars “Bok Tower” and “Victoria Tower” (also NHRR-owned) operated on the Springfield, Mass.-Washington, DC overnight route until 1960. The three cars were then used as spare or extra cars until their retirement in July 1962. “Breslin Tower” was purchased by Jim Bradley in July 1964; the other two cars were not scrapped until 1969. This car’s interior is in very good condition, suitable for display. Purchased from the Bradley Estate, it was placed back on live rail at Mystic, CT on April 5, 1991 and moved to storage in New Britain, CT. Moved to Naugatuck Railroad in November 1999.

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