It is currently Thu Nov 23, 2017 7:27 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 86 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 to be purchased, moved?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:14 am 

Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2006 10:42 am
Posts: 206
Location: Lancaster, PA
Rob,

Thank you for the comments, especially details on the site situation. Its good to hear the running track is still connected.

Do you have a sense of how long it will take the Gateway project to get to this point, in the next few months? Timing would be tight, but possible she could be moved just when the line is taken out of service for undercutting?

Regardless the clock is ticking.

Obviously the the 643's boiler would need to be addressed in light of current regulations, otherwise, I get the sense the running gear is ready to go. Basically it was fully restored 20 years ago....correct?

Most certainly there would be a place for her, even on static display to illustrate the history of the region......similar to the folks displaying the Union 0-10-2 at Greenville.

http://www.greenvilletrainmuseum.org/

Regards,

Randy


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 to be purchased, moved?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 6:18 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8354
Location: Baltimore, MD
FYI on the passenger cars: I've just blundered into the July 1962 Trains, which reports on the original 52-car order: 115,000 lbs. each with motors, $154,000 each new from Pullman-Standard.

So we still don't know if these cars have been cut up yet or not, is that right?


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 to be purchased, moved?
PostPosted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 9:27 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2080
Eventually track repair are a must and rail replacement. Best momentis if rail replacement occurs, to slap a switch in and do it then, or if the line was about to be replaced and the line moved, snap the switch in then.

On the other note if CSX were to "abandon" that line, guess what opportunity opens up and you suddenly have track to run on.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 to be purchased, moved?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 12:15 am 

Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:04 am
Posts: 665
Location: Northeast Ohio
CSX abandon the P&LE through Pittsburgh? Sure, only if they intend to abandon the rest of the B&O to Cumberland as well!

I think everyone in this region has at one time or another talked to Glenn about a home for the 643. Even I had discussions at one time with Glenn to bring it to Youngstown when he was being evicted from the P&LE's wheel shop and wondering where to take it next.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 to be purchased, moved?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:01 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2431
You don't really need a switch at all. You lay panel track as close as you can, and then on the day of the move, you re-align the mainline track to tie into your panels, pull the loco out, then restore the main.

Expensive? Yep. Requires an outage? Yep. But building a turnout does too and costs more.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 to be purchased, moved?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 2:37 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:00 pm
Posts: 746
Location: NJ
What Bob is suggesting has happened twice at the rebuilt station/museum in central Jersey. Once when they brought in the caboose and again later when they brought in the diesel. If my memory was better, I'd tell you what the station is called.

Or you could just build up the track so that it is on top of the rail and put down a section of tapered rail to roll the loco down onto the track.

Later!
Mr. Ed


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 to be purchased, moved?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 4:01 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 5:03 pm
Posts: 248
Location: SE, Mich.
Not to rain on anyones parade, but if CSX didnt move WM 734 (2-8-0), why would they move B&LE 643, a 2-10-4? "Thats all I got to say 'bout that" - Forrest Gump

_________________
-A.W.F.
Yield not to misfortunes, but advance all the more boldly against them.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 to be purchased, moved?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 5:37 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2080
big-bad-2666 wrote:
Not to rain on anyones parade, but if CSX didnt move WM 734 (2-8-0), why would they move B&LE 643, a 2-10-4? "Thats all I got to say 'bout that" - Forrest Gump


CSX's position is a little more political than reality.

Because NS went to a bit of a lighter weight engine than say 611 and 1218 may be considering track wear. Smart, but says 611 and 1218 might not return.

I am hoping the Virginia, West Virginia and a few other states common agreement to forward the Railroad education nudges the CSX over. They were running excursions before, now whuts up. (like we already know)

I had another idea, modding the panel track idea, lay it up parallel to the main, then crane the engine over.

2903 at the Museum of Science and Industry was moved to IRM using panel track to the nearest railroad.

http://web.me.com/willvdv/chirailfan/tripatsf.html

Technically you could move the engine to the nearest switch connection.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 to be purchased, moved?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1604
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
Not to hurt anyones feelings but all the above ideas are in fantasy land. Even if you could get CSX to go along ( near zero) they would have to charge you in the hundreds of thousands to do the track work suggested in the above posts PLUS be willing to take a busy piece of mainline track out of service and the chances of them doing that are minus zero. Then, you'd have to convince them to move a non-roller bearinged engine that's been staionary forever over thier railroad and the chances of that are minus zero to the tenth power!!!

The only way that engine will ever leave that location is to be disassembled and trucked out. That was part of the plan/offer Campbell turned down. And, by the way the total cost of disassembly,cranes on both ends, reassembly is in the several hundreds of thousands.

Darn shame but those are the hard cold facts.

Stupid is as stupid does.....Forest Gump.

Ross Rowland


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 to be purchased, moved?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3729
Location: Maine
Okay, Ross. So those are the cold, hard, facts. What would the projection be for the locomotive? I find it difficult to believe scrap is high in the list of options. You're an experienced steam man, could you offer a scenario to move that locomotive that is in the world of reality?

_________________
"It's only impossible until it's done." -Nelson Mandela


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 to be purchased, moved?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 6:57 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 1885
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
It would probably be more realistic to buy the land where the engine is and build a new museum right there, am I right? I mean seriously, the undeveloped industrial lot is worth, what, $100,000?

Either way, in the past 643 could have been a viable museum piece, but in today's difficult economic climate, it is really difficult to see someone donating the $200-400k necessary to recover this engine, when that same money could easily return any of a wide variety of other engines to practical operation.

_________________
Steven Harrod
Lektor
Danmarks Tekniske Universitet
Institut for Systemer, Produktion, og Ledelse


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 to be purchased, moved?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 7:40 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2332
She was once the "red barchetta" stashed away in the barn.

Since then, it seems that the opportunity to move her to Steamtown was the last great chance missed.

I'd love to see her end up plinthed undercover/indoors somewhere in Pittsburgh. Time will tell.

Rob

_________________
The long memory is the most radical idea in this country. It is the loss of that long memory which deprives our people of that connective flow of thoughts and events that clarifies our vision, not of where we're going, but where we want to go. B. Phillips


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 to be purchased, moved?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:01 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:41 pm
Posts: 814
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Ross is entirely correct, the most economical and feasible way to move it is to separate the boiler from chassis. Doing such things is not difficult if the work is done by people with experience in doing such things. It would be a disaster however if a well intentioned group tried to go it alone.

Jason


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 to be purchased, moved?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:54 pm 

Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 12:04 am
Posts: 665
Location: Northeast Ohio
You can get it up the industrial track into the wheel and axle forging plant at the north end of the spur, and from that location split her into two sections that would each go on a Kasgro heavy duty flat. The wheel and axle plant still has rail access and still receives rail shipments I believe.

Kasgro cars will cost about $2,000 each rental + freight rate to wherever its going.

Two cranes for loading will cost about $5,000 per day. So assuming two days for loading, three flatcars and about two weeks of initial prep work in dismantling, I would say you're looking at around $40,000 to move it out of there on flatcars.

Dispute my numbers? I move big stuff all the time in this region and I know what the riggers I use would charge for such a job. For 40K I can get 643 out.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 to be purchased, moved?
PostPosted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:38 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
Posts: 728
We paid $3,800 CDN for 8 1/2 hours with a 300 ton crane out of Ottawa, Ontario recently, but such machines are probably much more common and may be a bit cheaper in the Pittsburgh area.

Figure two cranes for two days splitting/ loading the engine and two days unloading at the destination... even at the rate we paid, you're talking under $24,000. For a project like this, a crane owner might cut you a deal. Steel erection contractors often have heavy cranes, and might be more willing to donate machine time than a crane service.

I'm not sure of the weight of the running gear or the boiler on this beast, but I suspect most crane outfits would want to use something heavier than 200 ton cranes, one at each end of the load. Since they're responsible for a safe lift, one doesn't have a lot of negotiating room. 300 ton cranes would give a greater lifting radius, which might be pretty useful.

This, and possible slow delivery (costing flatcar rental) might bring Rick's estimate up somewhat, but by splitting the engine it should definitely be doable as long as you have experienced volunteers to do the preparation work and much of the rigging. Done completely by contractors, the cost would be immense.

Throw in another flatcar and a couple of hours of crane time, and the little Alco could be saved as well.

All, of course, if the engines' owner and the affected property owners cooperate...

Hopefully this girl can be moved to a very good home. I'm not sure I'd call her pretty, but she sure is impressive!

Steve Hunter
Cardinal, Ontario


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 86 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], CTA4453, Google [Bot], JayZee and 19 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: