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 Post subject: Should there be an effort to preserve a Turboliner?
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 9:20 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 1016
Location: Leicester, MA.
Well, the title says it all: should a turboliner be preserved? I see two facts that would make that reasonable:
1) The turboliners represent a part of Amtrak's early history where they experimented with high speed trains (such as the turbotrain and the LRC) were used with some form of success
2) They have survived so far in storage. Those are the RTG IIIs, the last, most up to date model.

So, any ideas? I did hear something back from Amtrak on the topic, but I have yet to respond.

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 Post subject: Re: Should there be an effort to preserve a Turboliner?
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 9:35 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8637
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
So what did Amtrak say?

I foresee three problems with this, philosophical and logistical:

1) They can best be described as an experiment that wasn't a failure, but not a success either. It's also not a plus, for the mission statement, that they were adapted French technology, built in the U.S. under license. Ethnocentrism and xenophobia remains alive in American rail culture.

2) As with the Metroliners, the UA Turbotrains, the HSTs, or (one day) the Acelas, saving one car doesn't tell the full story (the RR Museum of Pa. did the best they could saving the cafe-coach-cab Metroliner 860), and saving an entire train is impractical unless you have a place to run it. Britain has preserved its experimental APT set, but it's truly an albatross.

3) they were/are TREMENDOUS fuel hogs. It is utterly impractical, if not impossible, to see a place for them in preserved operation unless some rich billionaire wants his own "Supertrain" private train set.


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 Post subject: Re: Should there be an effort to preserve a Turboliner?
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 9:48 am 

I suppose if a group can restore & preserve the Flying Yankee, another group can restore & preserve a Turboliner.

Sloan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mwnca03W2lo


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Should there be an effort to preserve a Turboliner?
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 12:58 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1215
Location: Chicago USA
For starters, those RTG hulks down in the southern Indiana scrapyard could be moved to a museum.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Should there be an effort to preserve a Turboliner?
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 2:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8637
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
Sloan wrote:
I suppose if a group can restore & preserve the Flying Yankee, another group can restore & preserve a Turboliner.


Three short cars and a small engine versus (usual configuration) five longer cars and two gas turbines. It doesn't sound like that much of a difference, but it's the critical one.


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 Post subject: Re: Should there be an effort to preserve a Turboliner?
PostPosted: Thu May 12, 2011 6:26 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2466
Location: S.F. Bay Area
You need to preserve the albatrosses and failures too. There are several Boeing LRVs in preservation, which tell historians and engineering people two things.
#1, being the undisputed master of one field of engineering doesn't mean jack diddly about another.
#2, Series SepEx really, really worked. Actually.

And the same applies to these beasts. You know, future engineers can look all day at the drawings and not see something they spot in an instant looking under the car. BART designers were up at Rio Vista Junction all the time looking at this or that thing on a car.

Often the feature of interest will not be what you expect it to be. For instance the Turbo trains, it won't be the turbine, more likely the shaft-drive. But then, the feature of interest will not be what you expect it to be!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Should there be an effort to preserve a Turboliner?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 1:32 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:56 am
Posts: 357
Location: Northern California
Some, or maybe all, of the Turboliners are equipped with third rail shoes and will run on 600 VDC. This allows them to get into New York City through the tunnels where the turbines cannot be run.

With the addition of a couple of trolley poles, they could be run at trolley museums.

I worked with a man who had been with United Aircraft, and later Amtrak. Amtrak bought the Canadian turbo trains. The friend was to ride with them from Montreal to the Chicago area. While in Canada they came down a hill and passed a yellow signal. The engineer assured the Amtrak people that the next signal would be green. The train went around a curve and under a bridge. There was a freight train crossing over in front of them. Everyone in the cab ran for the rear of the train. The turbo train hit the side of the freight train and rolled over into a ditch. It was full of jet fuel and immediately caught fire and burned. Everyone got out with only minor injuries. The turbo train was burned beyond repair. With one train missing out of the set of three, Amtrak cancelled the purchase.


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 Post subject: Re: Should there be an effort to preserve a Turboliner?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:57 am 
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Since the Flying Yankee has been mentioned here, lets just point out that the FY stainless steel construction does not eliminate the expense involved with weather sealing and protection. The restoration recently put a lot of money into making the train weather tight in preparation for the removal of the tent that has protected it for the last few years.

And in the current economy, raising enough money to get a good coat of paint on a piece of railroad equipment is a major accomplishment for most organizations. Do surface prep and repaint on five vehicles? Get your wallets ready.

Most groups with preserved EMD turbocharged locomotives would have great difficulty affording the average $45,000 repair bill to have a 567 or 645 turbocharger rebuilt. I wonder how many could afford to rebuild an obsolete gas turbine engine, particularly if parts are no longer available.

Great if you have the resources to get it done, but otherwise it ends up just being another project waiting for funds to come in.

PC

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 Post subject: Re: Should there be an effort to preserve a Turboliner?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 7:28 pm 

Joined: Wed May 04, 2011 6:04 pm
Posts: 5
" ...and the dreamboats shall inherit the earth..."

What an absurd waste of time just navel gauzing about the idea!!!

As has been said (by others) over and over again-join an extant group and help them to move forward.

Auf Wiedersehen

LF


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 Post subject: Re: Should there be an effort to preserve a Turboliner?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 8:20 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:05 am
Posts: 106
Location: Australia
Of course one needs to be preserved!! But why does it have to run? The Smithsonian doesn't fly it's planes, you can't have a ride on the Queen Mary. And nobody questioned whether a Concorde should be preserved even though there is NO chance of one flying again. 18 out of 20 are in museums today.
As it has been pointed out, it is oddball technology ( as far as the average museum is concerned), so for that reason alone we should maintain one in existence for some that may care. The Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania has no problems preserving history without it running, in fact most of the major museums are the same.
Instead of re-inventing the wheel and forming a group just to preserve a set, why not get involved with an established museum and form a sub-committee, raise the funds and preserve it with other like exhibits where it will fit in and fill some of the gaps in passenger rail preservation. I kind of like the Illinois railway museum for this option as it would sit well with the Nebraska Zephyr, the Electroliner and the many passenger cars and inter-urbans already there.

Regards

Wes

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 Post subject: Re: Should there be an effort to preserve a Turboliner?
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:23 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8637
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
u25b wrote:
Of course one needs to be preserved!!


No. Not "Of course".

The bitter reality is that we can't save everything, not even every last piece of vintage railroad rolling stock still extant today, let alone new additions to the fleet.

To save a Turboliner, you will either have to take resources from other worthy preservation projects, or you will have to get people to contribute to and work for your goals IN ADDITION TO everything else to which they may be contributing time, money, and sweat--an Alco PA, a GG1, a Santa Fe 4-8-4 or two, PRR 1361, Steamtown,the pair of CP G5's in Virginia, Car 57, the whole Cumbres & Toltec, the East Broad Top, etc.

A case can be made for preservation of a Turboliner, especially in New York State. Your mission is to convince enough other folks of the merits of the proposal that it has enough support--moral and financial--to succeed.

Good luck.


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 Post subject: Re: Should there be an effort to preserve a Turboliner?
PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 3:14 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 1032
Location: Back in NE Ohio
I think this is worth pursuing, but not to the detriment of other high-priority projects. I really wanted to see a United Aircraft Turbotrain set preserved. I thought that they were "unique" looking, and had some neat features, like the dome seating sections behind the operator's compartment, above the engine room. Riding up there, it sounded sort of like you were riding inside of a vacuum cleaner, since the muffled exhausts were routed through the sides of the dome.

For those too young to remember these short-lived trains, here is a photo of one of them in April of '72, from a snapshot I took at the age of 14, at Parkersburg, WV when it was running as every-other-day equipment from DC to Parkersburg. The other equipment set was conventional. This train ran at the behest of WV Congressman (and Chairman of the House Surface Transportation Subcommittee, not coincidentally) Harley Staggers. This service was totally political, and was derisively know as either the Staggers Special, or Harley's Hornet, and I believe only lasted about a year. The line is now abandoned West of Grafton. I was with a group from the Akron Railroad Club, and we rode roundtrip from Parkersburg to Grafton.


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File comment: UA Turbo Train, Parkersburg, WV, April 1972
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 Post subject: Re: Should there be an effort to preserve a Turboliner?
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 1:26 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2226
Preserved, sure, aquire and park it somewhere, throw up the donation bucket and work on it as funds allow as you go. I didn't know they were electric capable, IRM would be more perfect for it and their donating design. Having it run under electric means don't bother with the engine repair.


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 Post subject: Re: Should there be an effort to preserve a Turboliner?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 5:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:20 pm
Posts: 487
Trainorders.com -

https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/ ... ?4,4459371
Quote:
Date: 01/11/18 22:08
Rohr Turboliner story is near the end
Author: GenePoon

The three rebuilt Rohr Turboliners that Amtrak, under David Gunn, stole
from New York State, where the then-Commissioner of the state DOT was
Joe Boardman, are nearing their end.

Stored at Bear DE for years after withdrawal from service, two are moving
to New Jersey for use in first responder emergency training (SIC) and
then will go to scrap.

The third set is to be scrapped on site at Bear by Amtrak.


https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/ ... ?4,4470902
Quote:
Date: 01/25/18 13:52
Second Turbo Set moved from Bear, DE Today
Author: cr2581

The KP701 crew grabbed the second Rohr turboliner set from Bear, DE today for delivery to Adams MW Base in New Brunswick, NJ. Two views of the rare move taken in the Newark, DE area are attached.


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 Post subject: Re: Should there be an effort to preserve a Turboliner?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:45 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:05 pm
Posts: 706
Location: MA
The thing about trains is you can add locomotives YES ITS TRUE. Wan't to give a turbo liner ride at your museume without the furl and maintenance for exotic parts cost. Hook up the ol' Alco or FL9 only problem would be HEP but that can be solved with some creativity.


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