It is currently Thu Dec 14, 2017 11:22 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Saving NYC Observation Car "Fall Brook"
PostPosted: Tue Sep 13, 2011 1:51 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:27 pm
Posts: 111
Location: Flat Rock, MI
Good Afternoon everyone. I would like to open this up to anyone who would like to help or donate to a cause. NYC "Fall Brook", sister to PV "Babbling Brook", a Pullman Standard Observation car has been put up for sale. I have contacted the owner and have a set price from him, and assurance that the car should be saved. I have a few people that would be interested in her restoration as well as a few donations to allow her to be moved from Minnesota to a new home in Michigan, on the Coopersville and Marne Rwy near Grand Rapids, where "Babbling Brook" currently resides. The group would be responsible for the repositioning to Michigan and the repair of the car back to Amtrak certified status, and allow the car to be leased, as well as the car would be available for group functions. The current owner does not want the car to be scrapped, but will have no choice in the next 30 days. If you are interested in helping, please feel free to send me a PM or like our public Facebook page.

As of note: This car currently has been completely been tunneled (No interior), but does have its origional NYC Reversing equipment installed and NYC trucks, and was not modified to have a Obs end coupler making it a required tail car on any passenger train. This will be a long term project, but will have great rewards when completed.


http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Save-the-NYC-Fall-Brook-Observation-Car/269514209738858


Attachments:
File comment: This is the most current photo of "Fall Brook" after coming to MN from the D&RGW.
NYC Fall Brook.JPG
NYC Fall Brook.JPG [ 78 KiB | Viewed 4596 times ]

_________________
James B.
Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Saving NYC Observation Car "Fall Brook"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 4:21 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 150
That is a 1949 Budd product, not Pullman-Standard. However, it was in Pullman sleeping car service since it had five double bedrooms. Good luck with it!

Walt


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Saving NYC Observation Car "Fall Brook"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 5:44 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:25 am
Posts: 121
First thing you need to know is that the car is not in MN but in IL. The second thing is the guy (he uses a womans name as a cover) is one who you do not want to do business with. I can say this with personal experience. There are many other cars out there that are not in as bad shape and owned by more reputable people.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Saving NYC Observation Car "Fall Brook"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:19 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:27 pm
Posts: 111
Location: Flat Rock, MI
Thank you for that information, we will begin looking into information.

_________________
James B.


Last edited by TrainWatcher on Wed Sep 14, 2011 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Saving NYC Observation Car "Fall Brook"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 6:58 pm 

Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:46 am
Posts: 166
The Babbling Brook is a beautiful car, and if this one could be restored to the same condition, it would be quite an accomplishment.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Saving NYC Observation Car "Fall Brook"
PostPosted: Wed Sep 14, 2011 8:25 pm 

Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:07 pm
Posts: 150
tyrok1 wrote:
The Babbling Brook is a beautiful car, and if this one could be restored to the same condition, it would be quite an accomplishment.


Many folks here seem to agree that the number of potential restoration projects are much greater than the resources that exist to complete them. So, if one example of this exact type of car has already been beautifully restored, does it really make sense to devote scarce resources to resurrecting this one? The only time I would think restoring two identical streamlined obs cars would make sense is if the project was the Reading Crusader.

Walt L.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Saving NYC Observation Car "Fall Brook"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 7:18 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:27 pm
Posts: 111
Location: Flat Rock, MI
Our group believes that a lot of passenger cars deserve a chance at restoration. However, several of the cars we would be interested to purchase are at very high, and unreachable levels to even consider buying for a project. Also, several cars that our group has inspected and found to be too much of a project, such as side sheet and end damage, and heavy rusting and holes in the carbody. With "Fall Brook", the Budd Stainless is a great starting point and our group believes less of a maintance problem in the long run.

I understand being new to the Private Car game is frowned upon, and we might stick out, but I believe any organization or person who can give a piece of railroad history a chance at restoration and bring back the golden age to 2011, deserves a chance. You can say that to the crews of MILW 261, NKP 765, and SP 4449 and they'll more than likely agree.

_________________
James B.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Saving NYC Observation Car "Fall Brook"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:46 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1197
Location: Chicago USA
But does anyone in your group have a track record in this area where folks might be assured that the project will be successful if only they had the funds?

Steve


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Saving NYC Observation Car "Fall Brook"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:49 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 10:25 am
Posts: 121
You need to think also that the Fall Brook is going to have structural damage due to the fire.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Saving NYC Observation Car "Fall Brook"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 4:20 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:27 pm
Posts: 111
Location: Flat Rock, MI
Steve, we have contacted a few coach restoration groups, and also with the car at Gateway Rail Services currently, we would work with them. I am hoping to make a trip to IL in the next few weeks, and inspect the car, as well as contact Gateway and have them go thru the car.

_________________
James B.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Saving NYC Observation Car "Fall Brook"
PostPosted: Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
Posts: 347
"I am hoping to make a trip to IL in the next few weeks, and inspect the car, as well as contact Gateway and have them go thru the car".

So you haven't even inspected the car yet?

I'm all for saving passenger cars, and especially a classic Budd-built round-end obs car, but sadly, this car is REALLY rough. It is literally just a gutted shell. You look inside and all you see is the car structure. And the picture you post at the beginning of the thread shows the GOOD side of the car. The other side has more extensive fire damage. And as has been noted, there is structural damage from the fire. Of course, anything can be put back into service with enough money, but there just isn't enough left of the interior to justify any kind of restoration to original configuration. Maybe it could be made into a full lounge like AOE did when they ran a bulldozer through the completely intact 5 bedroom buffet lounge interior of the ex-NYC "Sandy Creek" many years ago. Yes, the ex-NYC "Hickory Creek", though in very rough shape and with not much original left but the rear lounge, was brought back from the "almost dead" to something that somewhat resembles it's original configuration. But there was considerable money spent on that car over roughly a 12 year period and it didn't have a fire damaged stainless steel carbody to contend with. At least it had air brakes and the window frames intact to start with.

I realize that once the car is gone, it's gone forever, but there might be a few better candidates out there for your time and restoration dollars that need good homes. What about the ex-NYC Budd-built tavern obs car that the Art Train was going to use? I think it might be still for sale. You might have to pay more to get that car initially, but it could be restored for far less money and in a far shorter period of time than the "Fall Brook". That's just one example.

If you do buy this car, I would lean away from having a car shop do much work. While a car shop might do good quality work on the car, you will run out of money much quicker if you go that route. And raising additional money through bake sales and small donations is not going to get the job done.

My 2 cents worth.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Saving NYC Observation Car "Fall Brook"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:16 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:18 pm
Posts: 428
Location: Illinois
The number I have heard thrown around that was spent on Hickory Creek is $750K. And this car was not fire-damaged, so I would presume Fall Brook will require more than that. Just FYI.

Chris.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Saving NYC Observation Car "Fall Brook"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:03 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:11 pm
Posts: 371
TrainWatcher wrote:
I am hoping to make a trip to IL in the next few weeks, and inspect the car, as well as contact Gateway and have them go thru the car.


And what kind of critical report would you expect from the people trying to sell you the car?

_________________
SO


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Saving NYC Observation Car "Fall Brook"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:06 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:11 pm
Posts: 371
ctjacks wrote:
The number I have heard thrown around that was spent on Hickory Creek is $750K. And this car was not fire-damaged, so I would presume Fall Brook will require more than that. Just FYI.

Chris.


Yes, $750K was the amount of Federal TEA money they got. I have been told they put at least another $75 in on top of that. While there are a lot of PVs out there that have a lot of money sunk into them this may very well be the most expensive Amtrak certified car out there.

_________________
SO


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Saving NYC Observation Car "Fall Brook"
PostPosted: Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:16 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:37 pm
Posts: 435
Location: Missoula MT
Quote:
Chris.

Yes, $750K was the amount of Federal TEA money they got. I have been told they put at least another $75 in on top of that. While there are a lot of PVs out there that have a lot of money sunk into them this may very well be the most expensive Amtrak certified car out there.


Isn't this car part of the New Jersey Transportation/Railroad museum? I suspect the entire cost was spent on shops paying prevailing wage, not volunteers with some professional assistance. If you want to job out the work, just start laying out the dough. I don't think that is the plan of the OP.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 23 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 6-18003, Bing [Bot], Bowmore, Chris Webster, CTA4453, Google [Bot], MD Ramsey and 33 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: