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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 4:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5251
Location: southeastern USA
Did Decauville build anything similar? I'm only familiar with the US and UK and German trench equipment to a limited extent.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 5:05 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:31 pm
Posts: 295
Location: TEXAS
Dave wrote:
Did Decauville build anything similar? I'm only familiar with the US and UK and German trench equipment to a limited extent.

dave

Yup, the did...the made a some of the Penochant 0-4-0+0-4-0 "french fairlies" I believe, in addition to four,six and eight wheeled tank engines. The Italians also bought a bunch of really light Porter 0-4-0s for trench service, but don't know when or if or how they were used.

The Narrow Guage and Shortline Gazette published scale drawings for the US army Prairies tank engines back in the '80's that I have, somewhere. Eastern Europe used to be covered in Feldbahn 0-8-0s with the Kleine Lidner axles, and I have heard rumors that clones were being built in the Slavic states almost as late as the Chinese were building steam. From what I have heard, those 'Brigadlok' German engines would do just about anything a Shay would do, from a rough trackage standpoint.

By the time you butchered a Garret frame, you could about build one...besides, the only Garretts I can think of that would be close are all outside framed, and a lot bigger as far as engine units. It wouldn't surprise me if the Brits didn't already have a lot of patterns for one already.


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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2011 10:46 pm 

Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 159
You are correct, between the two engines in England and the one at APPEVA in France, there should be enough stuff to pattern out an engine (if someone who has a large amount of disposable income would like to join the unit). And as far as an American engine, I don't think we are ready to say that any option is completely off the table. We will have to look at all of the options, because that will be the only way we will get an American engine.
I can't say thank you enough for all of the support from everyone on here, it just proves that this really was a good idea. You have given us a lot of good advise and a lot of good things to think about. It started out as us just wanting to recruit some like minded people, and has morphed into the real possibility that we may be able to start laying track in the next couple of years. THANKS!!!!!!

Brett

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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Sat Nov 19, 2011 11:22 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3031
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
I knew I'd seen this somewhere--enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxbVYUxkiUc

Some of the scenes with hordes of soldiers clinging to tiny trains are reminiscent to my eyes of the Darjeeling Himalayan.

Looking at the roads of the time and the primitive motor vehicles reminds me that the 15-inch gauge roads of Great Britain were originally intended not as park or amusement trains, but as a minimal size railway to do real work.

It's also interesting to note how many small industrial gasoline locomotives were used; that suggests these "critters" might be an authentic way to get started, while working on obtaining steam power.

Preserved Alco 2-6-2T in France:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O4TyvFTkuHQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hexzkObJ ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lk00S2jL ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XmYK0cWe ... re=related

Sadly, this engine is apparently out of service now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuGxeUD1 ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK-aanaF ... re=related

"Related" links reveal a Baldwin is there, too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBK4NxBu ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=O8Kjl15liRs

Back to 1918 (standard gauge):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvx5zxtI ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBqkoURY ... ure=relmfu

Narrow and standard:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_9iSISB ... ure=relmfu

Have fun.


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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:35 pm 

Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 159
Thanks for posting those! Lots of good stuff! Just makes me wish that we had some cool locomotives like this here in the states. It's ashame that the vast majority of U.S. military railroad equipment is all running overseas.

I'll have an update on the units status fo everyone soon. Still accepting volunteers if anyone is inteested!

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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Mon Nov 21, 2011 10:34 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 6:10 pm
Posts: 119
Don't forget about this locomotive, It's a Davenport trench loco converted to a tender loco.
http://www.steamlocomotive.com/misc/images/showImage.php?image=byron2968-2.jpg
formerly from the Byron Railroad, it was for sale a few years ago. Rebuild the cab, build new side tanks and you have an American trench loco.

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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 10:31 am 

Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 159
Mike,
Thanks, we were talking about that engine and her sister on the last page. I am having no luck getting in touch with the former owner, or current owner, or any owner for that matter. Does anyone have contact info for the owner? An Internet search revels nothing but a reference to Erie Canal Village.

Brett

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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 12:03 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:31 pm
Posts: 295
Location: TEXAS
On of them is/was still in Washington state, somewhere.


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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Tue Nov 22, 2011 9:30 pm 

Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 159
Do you have anything that could get me a little closer to the engine that may be in Washington? I was under the impression that both Davenports were in New York....I'll take any lead that I can get....Thanks guys.

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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:42 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3031
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
A couple of books that might be of interest, from the British, of course. . .

http://www.amazon.com/Railways-Before-1 ... 0713707038

From a discussion thread on the book, hope the link works:

http://files.activeboard.com/861890?AWS ... Ue92TDI%3D

Later developments:

http://www.amazon.com/Railways-Since-19 ... 0713707062

Item of interest--in the pre-1918 book, the American trench locomotives included some 4-6-0Ts that were very similar to the 2-6-2Ts and which predated them; the lack of a guiding axle in reverse lead to the extensive use of the 2-6-2T.

Now, a while back we had a thread on amusement park trains--and in looking for material for that, I came across what I think was one of these 4-6-0Ts, in bright red paint, apparently privately owned somewhere in South America--but I am an idiot, and didn't do anything to remember the link! Hopefully someone will remember or know something about this engine.


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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:49 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3031
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
More brain cell tickling going on--the Winchester & Western Railroad, a shortline in Virginia, today runs from Winchester to Gore--but at one time ran as far west as Wardensville, W.Va. At Wardensville was a sawmill and a logging road that used at least two of these 2-6-2Ts, so we also have a few of these engines in post-war American service into the 1920s.


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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 9:57 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:31 pm
Posts: 295
Location: TEXAS
brettcog2000 wrote:
Do you have anything that could get me a little closer to the engine that may be in Washington? I was under the impression that both Davenports were in New York....I'll take any lead that I can get....Thanks guys.



I had to search the memory banks of several amigos, but if our memories aren't completely off CLYDE SCHURMAN – WOODLAND, WASHINGTON was the last known owner of one of the Byron trench engine conversions.


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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:20 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
Posts: 728
Quote:
I had to search the memory banks of several amigos, but if our memories aren't completely off CLYDE SCHURMAN – WOODLAND, WASHINGTON was the last known owner of one of the Byron trench engine conversions.


A quick web search indicates Clyde Schurman passed away five years ago: http://www.usnr.com/media/Schurman.pdf

The notice shows the gentleman standing in front of an 0-4-0T.

Here is an old auction notice. The only locomotive listed is the Porter 0-4-0T:

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40199

Steve Hunter


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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:33 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:31 pm
Posts: 295
Location: TEXAS
The 2-6-2 was not sold at the sale, a friend of mine has pictures of the engine setting in a barn. Actually, there may have been two Schurman sales, as they were a collecting family. but I don't remember hearing of the other trench engine moving anywhere.


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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:38 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:31 pm
Posts: 295
Location: TEXAS
jim templin wrote:
The 2-6-2 was not sold at the sale, a friend of mine has pictures of the engine setting in a barn. Actually, there may have been two Schurman sales, as they were a collecting family. but I don't remember hearing of the other trench engine moving anywhere.



Actually, the trench engine may have been owned by Alan Schurman. They were Uncle and Nephew. Alan's collection is in Ridgefield, WA. Hope this helps.


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