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 Post subject: Re: Updated information on project involving ATSF 3463
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:01 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1597
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
Since we're into accurate stats I was born 7/11/40 in Albany, NY at 7:11am and thus my late grandmother ( Nana to my brother Bob and I ) said that I was born to be a gambler.

If I make it that far I'll celebrate my 72nd birthday next Wed.

I do go to the gym 3 days/week and do a 90 minute routine in an attempt to push back on reaching the drool stage,so far successfully.

For His reasons the good Lord has kept me in amazingly good health to date despite years of not taking care of my body as I should have.Now if I could just have the will power to shed 30/40 lbs. I'd be really ok??

I can still hand fire # 40 up the hill out of New Hope with the best of the 'youngins and do a respectable job of it.

So.............if I'm still around and able when the 3463 is ready to set the new world speed record, Lord and all the authorities involved willing I'll have the honor of being behind her throttle??

As Scripture teaches us....stay in today, tomorrow will come soon enough!!

All the best, Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Updated information on project involving ATSF 3463
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 8:15 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:31 am
Posts: 1097
Location: South Carolina
Good for you, Ross!

On a related subject, I can't recall ever reading who the "driver" was when the Mallard set the existing steam rail speed record. Maybe that's just a cultural thing between the UK and us?

Certainly, in the U.S., throughout the age of steam rail power, engineers were highly regarded by the public. If the record had been set here I think we'd all know who was at the throttle.

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 Post subject: Re: Updated information on project involving ATSF 3463
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:15 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
Posts: 728
This may well be a cultural thing. Canada is much closer to its British roots than the USA, and this may be reflected in the following event.

Canadian Pacific's F2a 4-4-4 # 3003 set a Canadian speed record of 112.5 mph in September 1937, but the names of the crew seem to have disappeared in the mists of time.

In common with Britain, the locomotive's designer is well known, but not the crew.

But this was only an official record. We had faster engines, but their exploits were unrecorded and strictly against the rules.

Canadian National's high- drivered K-5-a Hudsons were well known for speeds in excess of 100 mph. These engines were legendary around Brockville, Ontario.

The former Brockville master mechanic, the late George Clark, used to tell me that these locomotives regularly ran at speeds above 120 mph on the good track east of Brockville when they had to make up time. Of course it was strictly against the rules, but arriving late was a cardinal sin and these engines could fly.

George wasn't the only one, many of the senior hoggers and former firemen told me the same story. They were frustrated by diesel power, which couldn't be pushed beyond its design speed. Most said the Hudsons would settle into a nice smooth rhythm at 120.

When confronted with a 5700 or even a CNR Northern on the parallel "racetrack" near Montreal, the CPR crews with their Hudsons rarely won the race.

One of these engines, 5703 (lettered as 5700) is beautifully preserved at the Elgin County Railway Museum.

http://ecrm5700.org/k5-a-hudson/


5702 is at Exporail:

http://trainiax.net/photos/2008/2008-07-20-expo/photo-cn5702-1-2008-07-20-expo.JPG

The other three were scrapped at the end of steam.

Because of CN's experience with the 5700s, I tend to disregard those who claim a reciprocating steam locomotive cannot possibly acheive, or survive, running at 130 mph. If it hasn't been unofficially acheived already, the 5700s have regularly come very close.

Steve Hunter


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 Post subject: Re: Updated information on project involving ATSF 3463
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 9:45 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8299
Location: Baltimore, MD
sbhunterca wrote:
In common with Britain, the locomotive's designer is well known, but not the crew.


Stereotype much???

The driver was Joseph Duddington, the fireman Thomas Bray, accompanied by inspector Sid Jenkins.

This is rather common knowledge among UK steam fans, just about as much as knowing that Rowland was behind the American Freedom Train. Britain, and especially the LNER, fostered a "link" seniority system of duties for drivers and firemen; the most senior and experienced were entrusted with "top link" (e.g. highest rated, highest-paying, top priority) trains and the locos that drew them. "Top Link" drivers were practically celebrities in their home towns in the era.

From the numerous accounts of that day, both the crew and Mallard were carefully selected, but the important part of the record is that, aside from a dynamometer car being added to verify the data, this was an ordinary service loco on regular track with NO extra-special preparations made for the run. They knew they were trying for a record that day, with the "excuse" of testing a bearing in the valve gear (which did, indeed, overheat, as the others had been doing), but there was no application of bigger drivers, raising the boiler pressure, additional streamlining, etc. The diesel HSTs which would follow forty years later would hit these speeds daily, repeatedly, and sustainably.


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 Post subject: Re: Updated information on project involving ATSF 3463
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:04 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:31 am
Posts: 1097
Location: South Carolina
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
The driver was Joseph Duddington, the fireman Thomas Bray, accompanied by inspector Sid Jenkins.

Cool beans- thanks for the info!

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The Ultimate Steam Page
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 Post subject: Re: Updated information on project involving ATSF 3463
PostPosted: Thu Jul 05, 2012 12:17 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1429
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
co614 wrote:
Since we're into accurate stats ... tomorrow will come soon enough
Now that we have read the introduction to your autobiography, when will the full edition be published? Please include details for purchasing an autographed copy.


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 Post subject: Re: Updated information on project involving ATSF 3463
PostPosted: Fri Jul 06, 2012 7:41 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1597
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
Jim, Good question...quite often asked. I've been working on it and am up to the Toid chapter which I'm thoroughly enjoying writing. Many of the earlier era Toids have gone on to eternity but there still remains a healthy legation to carry on their Monday morning quarterbacking.

I hope to have the book published shortly before the attempt at setting the new world record.

Thanks for asking, Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Updated information on project involving ATSF 3463
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:58 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 17, 2012 12:11 am
Posts: 141
Location: North Carolina USA
From what I can understand of this project from what I read, the chief feature will be the testing and use of a non traditional fuel source, which then has improvements marked up for the efficiency of the engine in relation to this. My reaction has been surprise at the lack of corporate sponsorship, from various potential suppliers as an investment for opening a potential new market in light of the current conundrum with coal and oil issues. A secondary backbone for this project would perhaps be the DOE, inasmuch as rail seems to finally be recognized for it's greater efficiency in long hauls in terms of fuel usage. Is lack of this support the nervous anxiety over the global economy? Is it lacking a demonstrable (theoretical ) basis to underwrite this experiment? Why the lack of more robust sponsorship from other sources? Or, is this being pursued? It would seem to be a key factor in the projects viability. I went to the website and unfortunately, it seems to contain a very vague sort of outline, which also surprised me. I could not think of a more appropriate person to be in the cab for a speed trail than Ross. I suspect Porta is looking down at all this, very pleased.


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 Post subject: Re: Updated information on project involving ATSF 3463
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:34 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Baltimore, MD
Bruce Duensing wrote:
My reaction has been surprise at the lack of corporate sponsorship, from various potential suppliers as an investment for opening a potential new market in light of the current conundrum with coal and oil issues. A secondary backbone for this project would perhaps be the DOE, inasmuch as rail seems to finally be recognized for it's greater efficiency in long hauls in terms of fuel usage. Is lack of this support the nervous anxiety over the global economy? Is it lacking a demonstrable (theoretical ) basis to underwrite this experiment? Why the lack of more robust sponsorship from other sources? Or, is this being pursued? It would seem to be a key factor in the projects viability. I went to the website and unfortunately, it seems to contain a very vague sort of outline, which also surprised me.


There are three potential answers to this.

Think of this in the same terms as "There's this car that runs on water! RUNS ON WATER, man!"

The conspiracy theorist will follow the above statement with "...but the oil companies/government is SUPPRESSING the information, man! Too much money at stake! They want to continue to control us with their fuel policies and keep seizing our money, and . . ."

The physicist will say "Okay, once we took off the secret fuel tank hidden in the seat cushions, it didn't work" or "This fails to actually work as advertised, both from a chemistry and physics standpoint" or "Well, if this works we have to discard every last bit of knowledge of physics from the Higgs-Boson particle down to Newton's laws of motion and Archimedian and Euclidean theories, but hey, man, could happen....."

The business theorist will say "They suffered from inferior marketing, lack of ability to raise capital, lousy application of governmental subsidies, a bad mission statement, bad grant application writers, incompetent business administrators....." (See "Solyndra".)

Putting the focus on setting a speed record (and any hype of a celebrity at the throttle) makes the project look like a publicity stunt looking for a government handout to get into the world record books. Put the focus back on creating "carbon-neutral" commuter locomotives taking commuters to and from work "sustainably," and that image problem goes away, at least in part.


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 Post subject: Re: Updated information on project involving ATSF 3463
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 11:39 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1191
Location: Chicago USA
Ross, thank you for much entertainment over the years, and now, amusement too.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Updated information on project involving ATSF 3463
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 2:31 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:24 am
Posts: 470
Location: Canada
JimBoylan wrote:
co614 wrote:
Since we're into accurate stats ... tomorrow will come soon enough
Now that we have read the introduction to your autobiography, when will the full edition be published? Please include details for purchasing an autographed copy.



just started a new thread on that, never seen this footage before, hope you like it.
http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=33546&p=179030#p179030


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 Post subject: Re: Updated information on project involving ATSF 3463
PostPosted: Sat Jul 07, 2012 9:10 pm 
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Little of any value is transpiring in this thread, and moderating it is becoming a significant pain in the nether regions. It is therefore locked. Those seeking to reanimate the corpse should carefully consider whether their efforts will engender yet another flood of snark, ad hominem, and other activities anathematic to the purpose of RyPN.

Please see my ancillary post entitled "Rant" which is now a sticky message at the top of the forum. With a bit of luck, it'll get me moderated out of existence and I won't have to worry about RyPN any more.

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