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 Post subject: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:22 pm 

IIRC NS tried to get Southern 4-6-2 #1401 in their steam program in the 70s. All i know is that the Smithsonian declined. Instead #4501 was painted green. My question is why did the smithsonian decline?


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:58 am
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Location: Reston, VA
At least partially due to the cost and difficulty of moving 1401 from its current display location. If you are ever at the Smithsonian, you will see the problem.


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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:45 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:47 pm
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The Smithsonian has a page on their website describing how they moved it into the museum. Considering how much work went into getting it in there, I don't blame them for not wanting to do it again once NS was done with her

http://www.americanhistory.si.edu/onthe ... _31_1.html

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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 12:10 am 

I actually have been to the smithsonian once. I may live in California but i made a rare journey to DC and went there. I do see the problem with that.


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:54 am 
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
Did SRR really try to get 1401 back to operate? I can't see how SRR/NS wouldn't have realized what they were asking for if they'd had. There's a big difference between wanting and seriously asking...

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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:39 am 

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I've been there more than once. It's pretty much built into the American History Museum building. At this point, be thankful it's preserved and in as safe a place as any locomotive can be in the U. S.


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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:32 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
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Location: Chicago USA
I would be very much surprised if there was ever a serious request for it. Nothing like that has ever been reported. Even if it was not boxed in so thoroughly the Smithsonian would have ample reason to turn it down.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:48 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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I believe Graham Claytor offered either 4501 or one of the two Consolidations as a permanent replacement for the 1401. Smithsonian turned it down due to building modifications, historical connection of 1401 with FDR's funeral train, and basic collections policy.
An interesting article in a past issue of Classic Trains or Trains magazine, stated that at he close of steam three PS4's were rebuilt and repainted for permanent display. Only 1401 was called for, the others sat without agencies willing to accept them. After a period of waiting, Southern cut them up.

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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 1:34 pm 

Hmmm, thats very interesting. I wish 1401 could've been included but she looks great in the museum!


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:04 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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Richard Glueck wrote:

An interesting article in a past issue of Classic Trains or Trains magazine, stated that at he close of steam three PS4's were rebuilt and repainted for permanent display. Only 1401 was called for, the others sat without agencies willing to accept them. After a period of waiting, Southern cut them up.


That's an interesting bit of information. I wish that the Southern had saved one of their S class 2-10-2's to be preserved at the foot (or summit) of Saluda or near one of the runaway sidings. Maybe there was no "agency" to offer such a donation to, but it sure would have made a nice, and logical, preservation piece.

Just a bit of wishful thinking.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Richard Glueck wrote:
I believe Graham Claytor offered either 4501 or one of the two Consolidations as a permanent replacement for the 1401. Smithsonian turned it down due to building modifications, historical connection of 1401 with FDR's funeral train, and basic collections policy.


I find this story hard to believe, especially since 4501 wasn't Graham Claytor's to offer, donate or trade. She was property of Paul Merriman and later TVRM, and was always leased by Sou/NS.
1401 was put in the museum when it was under construction. I doubt she could be removed so easily. Even if you wanted to, they started building the Washington Metro in the early 1970s, which would have made removal by Southern very hard, as it limits weight on the streets all around the Mall.

What we do know as real fact is that Southern tried to lease A&WP 290 from the Atlanta Chapter of the NRHS. A&WP being an L&N property, objected. I believe I remember reading that the A&WP even went to court to enforce the donation agreement, so 290 stayed idle until the New Georgia operation came to be.

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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 5:53 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
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Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Trains did a piece on the history of the Southern steam program, maybe 15 years ago? In it they quote Claytor as stating he tried to get SRR to save a few ps-4's, but management said one in the Smithsonian was enough.

Also, I read the history as the Smithsonian requested the 1401, not the Southern offering it. Had White not requested it, I suppose not even 1401 would exist today.

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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:08 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
I also read in a book that SRR asked to lease Dick Jensen's (GTW?) pacific and had planned on turning it into a replica of a PS class. But they were never able to negotiate anything on that.
Such a shame, that engine might still exist today if they'd been able to get it for a while...

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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:19 pm 

The Tennesee valley railroad had plans to turn Canadian pacific 4-6-2 #5288 into a southern p5. Doubt it will happen now that the stokers going on #4501.


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:44 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1195
Location: Chicago USA
If they had the desire, funding, and time to make that happen, I'm sure they could find a stoker.

Steve


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