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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8390
Location: Baltimore, MD
I have the recording in question, and remember its use in the Railroad Hall quite well.

The first track of the recording that was sold, the one used on a loop in the hall, featured the sounds of a static 4501 sitting at a station for about a minute or 90 seconds before departure, two GENTLE short toots about a second and a half apart, then a spirited, and loud, acceleration (remember, 4501 has smaller drivers than 1401!) away from the station. As the sounds of the chuffs and clickety-clacks fade, a haunting 14-L grade crossing whistle floats back, well-quilled at the end with two sets of two short staccato toots, then a fainter, quieter, more regulation 14-L follows.

And yes, of COURSE it's loud. The "real thing" would have been several measures louder still. And the loop only played every few minutes, with pauses in between.

Although both the Hancock long-bell three-chime (heard routinely on 611, WM 734, and other big steamers) and the SR home-built whistles were supposedly "the same," there is a marginal but notable difference in sound that I will leave to those with more musically tuned ears to discuss.


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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2442
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Mr. Mitchell's recounting comports with my memory of the record. Also, to add in, before departure, there were two toots of the communicator whistle, indicating the conductor has given the highball to the engineer.

I first visited Railroad Hall in 1994 or so, and it was playing then, as well as subsequent visits in the early 200s, if my memory serves correct.

Thanks to the beauty of YouTube: http://youtu.be/7aO0yuZuKdc

This appears to be the second track of the record.

David

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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8390
Location: Baltimore, MD
Yes, that's Track Two of Side One of the 7" 33 1/3 record; I seem to have some recollection that this recording was made one one of the grades in northern Virginia, probably Fairfax Hill west of Alexandria.

I recall Side Two having a recording of a pass-by of a UP Big Boy, an onboard start-to-stop run of a PRR K4s on a commuter train between stops on the New York & Long Branch, and a third recording--a NYC Hudson? [considers digging for the copy of the recording here....]


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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:55 pm 
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
wilkinsd wrote:
I first visited Railroad Hall in 1994 or so, and it was playing then, as well as subsequent visits in the early 200s, if my memory serves correct.
How odd. I have been to DC numerous times for various reasons over the years, the first was 1991 and the most recent was 2008 (and probably dozens of times between 1996-98). Almost every time I was in the area of that end of the mall with more than an hour to myself, I went to the RR hall. The hall was silent every time I ever went in there (and I often did, because that and the air & space museums are great places to spend a lunch break).

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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:18 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:34 am
Posts: 371
"Sounds of 1401" I found mine! This is a 33 1/3 rpm record, wow. Copyright 1967. The jacket is missing though.

According to Morgan's "Locomotive 4501", the 1401 whistle was used on the 1966 trips from Washington, D.C. Union Station to Front Royal with Walter Dove as the engineer. I checked Brother Wrinn's "Steam Camelot" and verified that these trips did occur on October 1 and 2, 1966. So perhaps the whistle "theft" occurred one day during the last week of September, 1966? That would coincide with 4501 arriving in Alexandria on September 25, 1966. Finding a security journal from that week for the Museum of American History might yield a very interesting story....

Hmmm... 1966... add 50 years, perhaps in 2016 we need to do this again? Complete with a reenactment of the whistle removal?

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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:38 am
Posts: 924
1401's whistle was out again at least one other time- on Steamtow's CP 2317 during a Labor Day Railfest courtesy now retired Curator of Transportation and past Steamtown engineer Bill Withuhn (sorry I spelled that incorrectly).

Joshua

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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 10:35 pm 

Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 8:15 pm
Posts: 4
Wow 4501 is working hard in that! Does anyone know how many actual Ps-4 whistles are out there? I know there are a ton of reproductions/etc, also I presume that the Southern used that style of whistle on many of its locomotives?, certainly Ts-1s, light pacifics etc. I remember listening to many of the videos of 2716/610/2839 with a Ps-4 whistle? Also has anyone heard one of the large bell hooters that the Southern had? I have seen one with a integral valve stamped "4800", so was on a mikado.
It would be amazing to see 1401 running, but it is also great it is preserved in the way that it is.


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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:41 pm
Posts: 814
Location: Bowling Green, KY
That raises an interesting question. Greg Dodd had been producing EXACT Ps-4 replica whistles in the mid to late 90's. I was at the railroad at one point when he had 4 or 5 new ones laying side by side to the original.....absolutely beautiful work! I don't believe he sold more than 8 or so, anyone on this board have one or know who does?

Cheers, Jason


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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:03 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8390
Location: Baltimore, MD
nickco201 wrote:
Also has anyone heard one of the large bell hooters that the Southern had? I have seen one with a integral valve stamped "4800", so was on a mikado.


Railroads had no need to "stamp" any whistle or horn with a locomotive number, any more than you need to label the horn or radio in your car with your license plate number or VIN. If you see a number stamped or engraved on a whistle, it was done post-preservation--either by someone wanting to "memorialize" or preserve what loco it came off of (such as a presentation of a whistle or bell to someone upon retirement or as a civic award or display), or it may have been done nefariously to misrepresent an "ordinary" object as a "celebrity" object, in hopes of gaining more value for it in sale.

Or "4800" might have been a casting pattern number.


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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:59 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:07 pm
Posts: 28
[quote="Alexander D. Mitchell IV"][quote="nickco201"]Also has anyone heard one of the large bell hooters that the Southern had? I have seen one with a integral valve stamped "4800", so was on a mikado.[/quote]

Railroads had no need to "stamp" any whistle or horn with a locomotive number, any more than you need to label the horn or radio in your car with your license plate number or VIN. If you see a number stamped or engraved on a whistle, it was done post-preservation--either by someone wanting to "memorialize" or preserve what loco it came off of (such as a presentation of a whistle or bell to someone upon retirement or as a civic award or display)[/quote]

Actually, the railroads did stamp many of their whistles and bells while the engines were still in service.

Why, because there were usually multiple engines torn down at the same time, with the bells and whistles in a common pile. When the engine was being reassembled, it was much easier to do with the bells and whistles marked.

The whistles because of different styles and mounting areas,and reach rods to the cab, and the bells so that they would fit back on the studs they came off.

Stamping was more prevalent with bells, but some whistles were also stamped in this manner.


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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2012 10:32 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:51 am
Posts: 124
Location: Upland, CA
1401 was always one of my favorite steam locos. I wish I had the chance to see this true beauty in action. She would look so good double headed with R&N 425. That would be one bright and shiny excursion!


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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2012 9:27 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 3:12 pm
Posts: 20
Location: Stow, MA
"Sounds of 4501". My parents bought the record for me after my first ever visit to the Smithonian in Dec 1971, If you listen closely, I think you can hear the communication whistle in the cab when the conductor gives two toots from somewhere back in the train.

Tom Coughlin
Stow, MA


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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 12:06 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:45 am
Posts: 311
Location: Alaska
Are Southern "Presentation" whistles PS-4 whistles, or another type based off something else?

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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:17 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 12:07 pm
Posts: 28
[quote="JohnHillier"]Are Southern "Presentation" whistles PS-4 whistles, or another type based off something else?[/quote]


Ps-4 chime whistles became "presentation whistles" after they were removed from soon to be scrapped engines and donated to on-line factories and mills that requested them, as well as other types of whistles from Southern locomotives.


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 Post subject: Re: Southern #1401
PostPosted: Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:30 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:41 pm
Posts: 814
Location: Bowling Green, KY
Personally I heard the "rumor" from William J., he said it went as far as the question being asked.....the answer was no.....oh well. Had it not been for a lawsuit having been filed, by whatever railroad gobbled up the A&WP, in the latter 60's or early 70's to prevent 290 from operating under another railroads name....well, it would have been out operating.

The judgment makes for interesting reading.

Cheers, Jason


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