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 Post subject: Engine repair GE 44 tonner
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:42 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:18 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Tulsa, OK
The RR I'm with has a GE 44 tonner. The rear engine is stuck and won't rotate. Unit has been O/S for at least 10 years. We believe it is due to corrosion in the cylinders. Crank appears to be good. Can the cylinders be unstuck individually and the liners honed, or do are we looking at total liner replacement? This is a perpetually broke organization, so anything to reuse the existing parts would be better.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine repair GE 44 tonner
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 9:57 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1350
Location: Youngstown, OH
Perhaps your resources would be better spent engaging the community and in fund development so that you are not "perpetually broke".

If you have a Cat D17000 engine, its good for about 12 cents a pound at your nearest scrap yard.

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 Post subject: Re: Engine repair GE 44 tonner
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:05 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:18 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Tulsa, OK
Not helpful. This is why I typically don't come onto this site.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine repair GE 44 tonner
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:24 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 491
Location: Illinois
jjs_fnw wrote:
Not helpful. This is why I typically don't come onto this site.

Agreed...the previous reply could easily be interpreted as "it's junk, sell it for scrap, and don't come back until you have lots more money", not a very helpful suggestion at all....

Jeff

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 Post subject: Re: Engine repair GE 44 tonner
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:38 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1239
Location: Chicago USA
For starters, is it in fact the Cat D17000 engine or something else? Don't worry...someone will be along soon enough with further information.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: Engine repair GE 44 tonner
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:46 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:18 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Tulsa, OK
Yes, engines are the original D17000. Front runs, rear does not.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine repair GE 44 tonner
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 11:33 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2012 4:01 pm
Posts: 114
Location: Bath, Me
Have you pulled the injectors and dumped penertrating oil in the cylinders yet? Unless the engine was sitting with the intake wide open to weather and filled some cylinders completely with water the engine shouldn't be stuck too bad and will probably free up. Let the engine sit for a while and keep dumping penertrating oil in it. Try turning the engine over by hand with the injectors out in both directions until it moves, if you can get the engine to turn freely by hand a few rotations with nothing hanging up badly put the injectors back in and try starting it up.

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 Post subject: Re: Engine repair GE 44 tonner
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:08 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 2:18 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Tulsa, OK
Useful information, thanks.

What has been done so far is prelubing the engine, pull compression plugs and try to bar over by hand. They have not tried to unstick cylinders like you're describing. I will send this on to them.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine repair GE 44 tonner
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:11 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:31 pm
Posts: 268
Never had to unstuck a Cat D17000 before, but have had my share or stuck, frozen, or rusted in place pistons in various makes engines.

In my experience I've found that "penetrating oil" almost never works on a really stuck piston.

First thing is to make sure the "stuck" engine isn't froze up due to a mechanical failure like a broken rod or spun bearing.

I like using a 50% / 50% mix of ATF and Kerosene. If I can get the heads off all the better but if not, I'll pump the mix in thru a open intake or exhaust valve or thru the injector, fuel nozzle, or spark plug hole (depending on it being a gas or diesel engine).

Success has also been had with brake fluid mixed with ATF and in one engine my father in-law suggested a diluted Vinegar solution... don't laugh it worked in a small Kohler engine.

We have also used a plate bolted over the cylinder with a grease fitting tapped into the plate. Then pump grease into the cylinder until the pressure moves the piston... Yes, it's messy. Yes there is a chance of damaging a piston from the pressure, but it does work...

I have a 25hp. Associated engine that took 9 months to free up.

If they are really rusted in place, It will take time to free them...

Tim W.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine repair GE 44 tonner
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
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Location: Warszawa, Polska
Have a look at this thread:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=30802&hilit=ATF

It discusses freeing up a seized ALCo engine.

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 Post subject: Re: Engine repair GE 44 tonner
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 12:59 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5550
Location: southeastern USA
Lots of different information floating around out there about D17000 engines.......

I'm not sure who I can trust, but if Jack Siffert wants to chime in I'd be very interested in what he has to say.

Either D17000 engines are no longer being supported anywhere in the universe, or there's a limited supply of NOS in third world countries, or there are some small shops that are only open every leap year during the dark of the Blue Moon that overhauls them.........while spinning old journal waste into gold. All from hearsay or ignorant sources and unsupported.

From a practical perspective: supposing there is no reasonable means of making more than token repairs to these engines that do not require much in the way of parts? How then do we exchange them for a new supported prime mover that has similar characteristics? I'm not aware of any modern diesel motor that has the high HP output at the low RPM range of the old ones. Do we also rewind generators for higher RPM or gear down with a seperate gearbox or what? Specifics would be nice if anybody's done this.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: Engine repair GE 44 tonner
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2528
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Dave,

Not to hijack the thread, but there was such a proposal, to re-prime mover one of the surviving Armco visibility cab locomotives with a more modern power plant. The proposal was to use a marine-type gear reduction box to get the RPMs down to something that was acceptable to the generator. I wonder what became of the idea. If successful, it would be an option.

David

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 Post subject: Re: Engine repair GE 44 tonner
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:05 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5550
Location: southeastern USA
I think that's more to the point than unsticking recipes (which, BTW is ATF and Naphtha, small volatile molecules squeeze in and displace crap better) since after you get it unstuck and spin it, then you find all the other problems that require unobtainable parts to fix. Hence.....there are many of us with D17000, old Cummins blocks and in one case close to me a Buda(!) set that will need to be set aside or reengined to stay in service.

It would be interesting to compart solutions - straight mechanical (gearing down) with hybrid partial electrical (rewind generator for high RPM) with total replacement of electrical and mechanical.

I've heard a pretty impressive idea to replace the 2 big engines with a lot of batteries and a small charging genset to run like a hybrid car.....which is really interesting for lokies used in short run captive service.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: Engine repair GE 44 tonner
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 4:55 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:18 am
Posts: 6
Dont laugh, but add coca cola to an mix of Kerosene and penetration oil.


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 Post subject: Re: Engine repair GE 44 tonner
PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 5:56 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 2:51 am
Posts: 28
I like that last suggestion...it's not as silly sounding as it might seem. I, too, have heard of using Coca Cola in similar ways to free things up. It would be a very cheap try, anyway.


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