It is currently Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:41 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 267 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 18  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:53 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:16 pm
Posts: 546
Location: Rochelle Illinois
joe6167 wrote:
. . . They had 8 cylinder, 650 horespower Sterling engines.

Units 7810 and 7812 arrived in Prince Edward Island on April 30, 1948 and proved unsatisfactory. They were returned by the CNR and the entire order was cancelled. . .

Thank you Joe, I never heard of Sterling engines before. I have read Whitcomb literature that indicates many different engine makes were used in their locomotives but never Sterling. And I will see if I can locate that book.

I suspect that GE and EMD offered superior engines than Whitcomb. All of the engine makes that Whitcomb used that I'm aware of are gone with the exception of Caterpillar.

They always used Westinghouse generators and motors.

Steve

_________________
"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it"

Edmund Burke (1729-1797)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:07 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:16 pm
Posts: 546
Location: Rochelle Illinois
A quick Google search and the wonder of the internet comes to the rescue:

Image

Seems they did a lot of marine engines. I can't find any reference to locomotive applications other than your source.

http://www.vintageadbrowser.com/search? ... ng+engine+

Image



Steve

_________________
"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it"

Edmund Burke (1729-1797)


Last edited by machinehead61 on Sun Nov 25, 2012 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:37 am 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 906
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Contact the author, Allan Graham at:

P.O. Box 335,
Alberton, PE
Canada
C0B 1B0
1-902-853-3211

_________________
CNR 6167 in Guelph, ON or "How NOT To Restore A Steam Locomotive"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:00 pm 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:16 pm
Posts: 546
Location: Rochelle Illinois
I did find this:

http://blog.traingeek.ca/2010_01_01_archive.html

Quote:
Diesels on Prince Edward Island, Part 2

Previously I wrote about the two 44-ton diesels that were the first diesel engines on PEI.

CN tried two 75-ton diesels, a Whitcomb design built by the Canadian Locomotive Company (CLC), in 1948. CN 7810 and 7812 proved unsatisfactory and were sent back.

Shortly thereafter CN purchased 18 GE 70-ton units that were to prove much more successful. The engines arrived in 1950. Later that year, the last steam engine, 1149, left PEI on September 23, 1950. The 70-tonners were initially numbered 7800 - 7817. They were renumbered in 1954 to 1526-1543 and again in 1956 to 26-43.


Learned something new. I might contact the author to find out what exactly was wrong with the Whitcombs.

I believe one of these engines still runs at the Fox Valley Trolley Museum in South Elgin , Illinois.

http://www.foxtrolley.org/Default.aspx?pageId=1146778

Image

Steve

_________________
"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it"

Edmund Burke (1729-1797)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:06 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 906
Location: Brampton, Ontario
That would be really neat if that is one of those CNR units. A CNR unit that never served on the CNR...

_________________
CNR 6167 in Guelph, ON or "How NOT To Restore A Steam Locomotive"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1488
Location: Southern California
Found this on the California State Railroad Museum website:

Library/Manuscript Collections
Quote:
The records of companies which supplied materials to the industry are also part the Library's holdings. In 1991, the Baldwin-Hamilton Company donated a collection relating to the Whitcomb Locomotive Company and the Sterling Engine Company which includes records of the sales department, specifications, and vendors files, as well as drawings.
More research is required to determine the relationships between the companies.

Edit: There is an indication that the above mentioned Sterling Engine may be Sterling Machine Company of Menominee, Michigan, and formerly of Buffalo, New York, acquired by B-L-H in 1962.

_________________
Brian Norden


Last edited by Brian Norden on Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:19 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
Posts: 728
Here's a bit more about Sterling diesels:

http://www.smokstak.com/forum/showthread.php?t=83642

The CNR units were built under license by CLC and the first ones were tested extensively in the Montreal area. They were so unsatisfactory, that CNR cancelled the order and returned the completed units to CLC.

They never reached their intended stomping grounds on Prince Edward Island. CN ended up buying highly satisfactory GE 70 tonners instead, while the Whitcomb/ CLC units were extensively rebuilt and were sold to Rock Island.

I have not seen detailed reports of the flaws but it should be noted that CN was usually quite patient in working with manufacturers to solve problems. The fact they sent them back while the order was still being built indicates there were serious, fundamental problems.

Steve Hunter


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
Posts: 728
Code:
That would be really neat if that is one of those CNR units. A CNR unit that never served on the CNR...


From http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr1892.htm :

"73, 70DE24, was built by Whitcomb in April 1948, #60748, as Potlatch Forests Inc 73. It was transferred to the W&SR as 73 in 1963 and later sold to the Fox River Trolley Museum in 1991

Steve Hunter


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8399
Location: Baltimore, MD
Just as an FYI, the Maryland Rail Heritage Library just took possession of what appears to be a complete set of Baldwin Locomotives Magazine, as well as some issues of Baldwin Group and Baldwin Southwark Magazines as well, and I know for a fact that several duplicate copies of certain issues are on hand. If you can ID specific issues relevant to your needs, we can come to some sale or trade arrangement, pending approval by the Baltimore Streetcar Museum.......

I'll be happy to flip through to look for any Whitcomb-relevant info when I have spare time, which at the current rate will be "never".......


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:45 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:16 pm
Posts: 546
Location: Rochelle Illinois
Brian Norden wrote:
Edit: There is an indication that the above mentioned Sterling Engine may be Sterling Machine Company of Menominee, Michigan, and formerly of Buffalo, New York, acquired by B-L-H in 1962.

Very good. I overlooked that statement. It just amazes me how many companies were gobbled up by large conglomerates. The death of so many small locomotive builders and the eventual domination by just a couple is a very common pattern in capitalism.

Steve

_________________
"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it"

Edmund Burke (1729-1797)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:03 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:16 pm
Posts: 546
Location: Rochelle Illinois
sbhunterca wrote:
The CNR units were built under license by CLC and the first ones were tested extensively in the Montreal area. They were so unsatisfactory, that CNR cancelled the order and returned the completed units to CLC.

They never reached their intended stomping grounds on Prince Edward Island. CN ended up buying highly satisfactory GE 70 tonners instead, while the Whitcomb/ CLC units were extensively rebuilt and were sold to Rock Island.

I have not seen detailed reports of the flaws but it should be noted that CN was usually quite patient in working with manufacturers to solve problems. The fact they sent them back while the order was still being built indicates there were serious, fundamental problems.

Steve Hunter

I remember riding on the Fox Valley Trolley line being pulled by that Whitcomb engine when it broke down. It got us back to the museum but was leaking coolant.

Someone working at the museum said that their Whitcomb had been originally built in Canada then rebuilt by Whitcomb. I'll give them an email and see if they respond.

Steve

_________________
"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it"

Edmund Burke (1729-1797)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:09 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:16 pm
Posts: 546
Location: Rochelle Illinois
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Just as an FYI, the Maryland Rail Heritage Library just took possession of what appears to be a complete set of Baldwin Locomotives Magazine, as well as some issues of Baldwin Group and Baldwin Southwark Magazines as well, and I know for a fact that several duplicate copies of certain issues are on hand. If you can ID specific issues relevant to your needs, we can come to some sale or trade arrangement, pending approval by the Baltimore Streetcar Museum.......

I'll be happy to flip through to look for any Whitcomb-relevant info when I have spare time, which at the current rate will be "never".......


I would greatly appreciate it if you could search through them. The only issue that I know of is the one I just obtained. If you can find Whitcomb adds please let me know. People are selling those adds on ebay for at least $10 + shipping. Our local Rochelle museum is going to do a Whitcomb display after the first of the year - I'm basically doing it with their assistance.

http://www.flaggtownshipmuseum.org/

I'll post photos here when the exhibit is done.

Image

The car in the photo is a Partin Palmer. They were assembled in the Whitcomb factory for a short time.

Steve

_________________
"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it"

Edmund Burke (1729-1797)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:15 am 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
Posts: 906
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Now the question about those CNR units is, which plant made them? Were they made in the Whitcomb plant, and then sold to the CNR through the CLC? I've heard of similar deals being made, including one with the CPR for a series of Baldwin Switchers, including one preserved at the John Street Roundhouse. It carries both CLC plates AND Baldwin plates (although I couldn't find any in service photos of those engines that show two builders plates).

That museum also has another CLC switcher built to the Whitcomb design.

http://www.trha.ca/locomotives.html#whitcomb

_________________
CNR 6167 in Guelph, ON or "How NOT To Restore A Steam Locomotive"


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:23 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:16 pm
Posts: 546
Location: Rochelle Illinois
joe6167 wrote:
That museum also has another CLC switcher built to the Whitcomb design.

http://www.trha.ca/locomotives.html#whitcomb

That engine looks exactly like the one in our Rochelle Railroad Park:

Image

Right to left are myself, Bert Cote and his wife.

Bert is the gent that was photographed in the 1944 E Award Ceremony holding the flag. Shortly after he was drafted and served in the U.S. Army in Germany with the "Hell on Wheels" armored division.

Image

Does the CNR Whitcomb have the Whitcomb name on the end like this one?

Steve

_________________
"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it"

Edmund Burke (1729-1797)


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: From Rochelle IL and doing Whitcomb Locomotive Research
PostPosted: Mon Nov 26, 2012 2:43 am 
User avatar

Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:16 pm
Posts: 546
Location: Rochelle Illinois
Image

Image

Image

Some of the WW II history involving Whitcombs.

Steve

_________________
"Those who don't know history are destined to repeat it"

Edmund Burke (1729-1797)


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 267 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 ... 18  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], daylight4449, Google [Bot], Kelly Anderson, Rob Gardner and 46 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: