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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2013 3:53 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3031
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
I don't know if this proposed WW I railroad reenactment group is still active or not, but I came across something that might be sort of similar, in the sense that we are looking at a narrow gauge industrial exhibition railway. Location is the National Pike Steam, Gas & Horse Association equipment show near Brownsville, Pennsylvania. There's a sign outside the site along Route 40, suggesting this is at least a semi-permanent facility.

This could be a glimpse of what a recreated WW I trench railroad might look like.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqmJjCba9Vo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6DXJ1l_jCY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sYOAcnUk1o

Now, at the risk of "not being serious," I'll guess that some of you took note of a couple of other things there, like a real steam shovel (at 1:00):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAsX-uNPDuw

More real steam shovel action:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erzrUEKh4eA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1iOZu7et64

What's the tie-in with railroad preservation? Well, if you need some sort of earthwork done, or some sort of new construction, I would think it might be worthwhile to check and see if somebody is in this vintage construction equipment hobby might be available and willing to get a chance to play in the dirt--and you get a new roadbed or something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diZnX1N49R0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5M5v8Yr6gNM


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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 12:20 pm 

Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 8:36 am
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We are still discussing it, but the equipment issue is providing to be quite an issue. No american locomotives to be had, anywhere. If it's going to happen, then engines will have to be made new from scratch.....

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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 1:45 pm 
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
brettcog2000 wrote:
We are still discussing it, but the equipment issue is providing to be quite an issue. No american locomotives to be had, anywhere. If it's going to happen, then engines will have to be made new from scratch.....
And this is the primary reason why I never seriously looked into doing any RR unit for re-enacting.

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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 5:01 pm 

Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 8:36 am
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Well, if we wanted to do a WWII unit, there is equipment available for that. However, in trying to do a WWI unit, you are very limited.

It is still very easy (with the right amount of money) to get the rolling stock, MRS-1, and there are a couple of S-160s to be had. There is an S160A that could be de-civilianised very quick. There are even a couple of the S100 and S119 still around. Getting into the 2' gauge stuff is where you run into the issues.

Uniforms and a place to run, not a problem. Track, again....not an issue. The correct motive power, or at least a good locomotive to modify into the correct pattern....there in lies the issue.

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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 7:00 pm 
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
brettcog2000 wrote:
Well, if we wanted to do a WWII unit, there is equipment available for that. However, in trying to do a WWI unit, you are very limited.
It is still very easy (with the right amount of money) to get the rolling stock, MRS-1, and there are a couple of S-160s to be had. There is an S160A that could be de-civilianised very quick. There are even a couple of the S100 and S119 still around. Getting into the 2' gauge stuff is where you run into the issues.
Uniforms and a place to run, not a problem. Track, again....not an issue. The correct motive power, or at least a good locomotive to modify into the correct pattern....there in lies the issue.

Well, I agree that there is WW2 military equipment around, but if you'd be allowed to do anything with it, well, that's the real issue as not too many operations would let you convert their civilianized locomotive over to an Army expample.
But as for WW1, yeah, I'd expect the people at the Newville site would be most excited about getting a trench RR going there. I went to a couple events back at their previous site many moons ago...

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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 9:19 am 

Joined: Thu May 05, 2011 8:36 am
Posts: 159
p51 wrote:
but if you'd be allowed to do anything with it, well, that's the real issue as not too many operations would let you convert their civilianized locomotive over to an Army expample.


Well Lee, I think that I may have to disagree with you on this one. There is enough of the equipment around to be very affordable, and terms of rolling stock, most of it only needs a paint job to be back in Army colors. And I would think that there would be places where we could use it. There are multiple "Troops and Trains" (or something of that flavor) around the country every year depicting "troop trains" or at the very least incorporating the WWII reenactors into the mix. At some of these locations getting the rolling stock used should not be an issue.
I know of at least 4 kitchen cars right off the top of my head that are available, and I know of a couple of the ACF troop sleepers that could be had. Regular coaches and rolling stock would just need a coat of paint (if you were going to put them into army colors) and doing an early war impression you wouldn't need that at all.

In terms of the locomotives, here again, most of the modifications are just in terms of paint. There are RSD-1 and MRS-1 locomotives around (some of which are still in the Army Paint). As far as steam locomotives go, there are a few around that foot the bill quite well. TVRM 610 has been modified, but not by much. She could pass to the goofers with not but a coat of paint and the proper USATC markings on the tender. See her Eustis photo.

http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/usa610.jpg

You will notice a couple of differences, but not many. They moved the bell, lowered the headlight, and raised the cab from European loading to American Standard, but overall she would still pass quite easily. USA #612 is up for sale, and can be had for a decient price. That one could be brought on line. USA #557 is being rebuilt as we speak, so we'll see if they keep her as she served on the ASR or if they civilianise her. USA #606 is close to being still in "service dress" other than being lettered for N&W. USA #645 (better known as TSR 300 from Camp Claiborne) is passable as well with a coat of paint. I could keep going on, but I think that's enough for now.
I think that there are ways to get a WWII example going, but that was not orriginally the idea of the 14th. However, that is niether here nor there at the moment. Newville would be a great place, but they make it very hard for new units to come and play. Most people have to join an all ready existing unit, and they are not really "newbie" friendly. We had offers from quite a few locations that would allow us to set up a site, but no point in moving rail and equipment there....grading and laying track, if there isn't going to be anything to pull it. Lot's more to try and figure out. The idea is by no means dead, but going to a different era might be in order?


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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:52 am
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ARR 557 will be configured as she served the ARR from 44' to 56' and that would be as she was while in the railway operating battalion in Alaska, technically I guess you could say that was civilian clothing but they were in military service. These engines arrived on the boat in European configuration and were immediatly converted to US standards and for the most part remained that way to retirement. We are considering an option that would allow us to quickly relable the markings on the locomotive. We could then convert the engine to USATC livery for special occasions and then go back to ARR. Initially this was conceptionalized to pay tribute to the 714th railway operating battalion. If this works out you would only be able to tell the change if you were very close to the engine.

Jeff


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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:19 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:57 pm
Posts: 68
A report published in this month's Railway Magazine states that two WW1 Baldwin 10-12-D class 60cm gauge 4-6-0T locos are on their way back to England from India.

Works numbers are given as BLW 44657/1916 and BLW45190/1917.

The destination said to be the Statfold Barn Railway, which is a large private railway on a farm.

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:29 pm 
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
FYI, yhere's an amazing WW1 RR unit helmet on ePay right now, item number 161003871247: http://www.ebay.com/itm/161003871247?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649
almost all WW1 painted helmets were done after 11-11-18, most often by doughboys cooling their heels in France or on the boat, waiting to get back home. But still, this is really neat. I expect this pot to go for a pretty penny and I've saved the photos as I have a WW1 helmet shell in my storage building I could easily paint up to look like this one...
brettcog2000 wrote:
There is enough of the equipment around to be very affordable, and terms of rolling stock, most of it only needs a paint job to be back in Army colors. And I would think that there would be places where we could use it. There are multiple "Troops and Trains" (or something of that flavor) around the country every year depicting "troop trains" or at the very least incorporating the WWII reenactors into the mix. At some of these locations getting the rolling stock used should not be an issue.
I know of at least 4 kitchen cars right off the top of my head that are available, and I know of a couple of the ACF troop sleepers that could be had. Regular coaches and rolling stock would just need a coat of paint (if you were going to put them into army colors) and doing an early war impression you wouldn't need that at all.
Yeah, the problem there is, who's going to pay for all of it? Who's going to sell it to you? I've been into re-enacting for most of my life and I've yet to meet anyone who'd shell out the bucks for something like that. Even if you could afford the equipment and get it painted properly (assuming paint is all you needed), do you have a place to run it? Where is all this 'very affordable' rolling stock you speak of? And when are you going to write a check for it all? Let me know when you have the railroad paperwork signed for running it, I'll be sure to hop an airliner to go ride it...

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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2013 9:58 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Baltimore, MD
In other news across the pond on another survivor:

http://www.ffestiniograilway.org.uk/ind ... cle&id=538 with photos.

Quote:
Mountaineer, although named after an original England loco, is the 1916 WW1 Alco that went out of service in February 2006. The loco made an appearance at the Blaenau 30 event last May and has now been booked to appear at the National Garden Railway Show in Peterborough over the weekend of 27 April.

On Thursday 18 April Mountaineer was brought out of Glan y Pwll carriage shed and moved down to Boston Lodge prior to transport to the garden railway show.

Mountaineer is brought of the carriage shed by Andy, a medley of Simplex parts named in honour of former resident engineer Andy Putnam Posed in the yard at Glan y Pwll Viewed at Tan y Grisiau, Mountaineer waits with Criccieth Castle to proceed

A view inside the cab, looking from the driver's side to the fireman's side A view not seen for a while - looking up the loco across Cei Mawr The 'reserve' fleet in the old loco shed at Boston Lodge - Mountaineer rests with Linda and Blanche

Mountaineer, a WW1 survivor, will be on display at the Steam 150 Event: A Steam Odyssey, helping to tell the story of narrow gauge steam. Details here.


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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2013 7:24 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
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Location: Leicester, MA.
Well Brett, it appears that there are two Baldwin 10-12-Ds bound for the UK, supposedly with a third to be expected...
http://forum.wwfry.org/index.php?topic= ... 8#msg16748

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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 1:24 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3031
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Came across this looking for some other material. Scroll down to find some photos and a video clip of WW I trench roads. Of particular interest is the photo of a preserved Baldwin gasoline-mechanical locomotive! I didn't know one of these existed!

http://smallmodelrailroads.wordpress.co ... perations/

Looking at this photo suggests the Baldwin is a pretty simple affair, at least compared to some other types. Could this thing be reproduced, with a modern engine and transmission? Could this job be relatively easy, compared with restoring a vintage steam engine, or building a genuine steam replica?


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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 2:32 am 

Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2009 5:57 pm
Posts: 68
If you go to the National Preservation website, look for the Statfold Farm thread in the narrow gauge section and you will find pictures of the Davenport and a Baldwin 4-6-0 tank sat on flat cars in a shed.

Another British site to keep an eye on would be that of the Moseley Railway Trust who are planning a major 2' gauge WW1 event for autumn 2014, "Tracks to the Trenches".

Tim


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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 4:02 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 12:32 am
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There are 2 Baldwins at Statfold one we are keeping and one is for sale, but please no time wasters if any one is intersted


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 Post subject: Re: WW I Railroaders
PostPosted: Fri Jul 26, 2013 12:12 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:54 am
Posts: 789
Location: Califoothills / Midwest Prairies
I would love to see the 4-6-0 go to one of the groups in Maine, if they could pull it off.

Meanwhile, readers of this thread may be interested in an upcoming photo album of British WDLR operations from WWI. Of course the cover photo shows two American built locomotives in service.
http://rclpublications.co.uk/b09-wdlralbum.html

I am intersted in another upcoming publication by this firm, about the 18" gauge Sand Hutton Light Railway, which was a private shortline built from surplus British War Department trains.
http://rclpublications.co.uk/sandhutton.html
If you read Smither's book "18 Inch Gauge Steam Railways" you will learn of the evolution of military railways from some pretty wild early ideas (Elevated monorail systems of sort?).

O Anderson
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/18inch


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