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 Post subject: Re: "Railfanning" ?
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:22 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 11:08 am
Posts: 212
Location: Whitefield, ME
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
So is someone going to take a whole thread and toss it from one forum to another just because the subject shifted a bit, or even dramatically?


Nope, just take the information which diverges from the original thread topic and put it in a new thread. For example, the current BLW 26 thread has a really interesting discussion on builders photo paint jobs. Why doesn't that become its own thread with a new subject, and the BLW 26 thread can be left on its own?

Steve Piwowarski


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 Post subject: Re: "Railfanning" ?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 5:25 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
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Location: S.F. Bay Area
Thread drift happens, but Sandy, you're talking about a particular kind of thread drift, that is almost always from on-topic to off-topic. I prefer "moving", but I have no big problem with "deleting" in that case. Prune the rotten fruit so the tree can grow. Delete bad posts to fix the thread.

A forum like railroadfan.com constantly has topical threads evolve into schmooze-fests. RyPN does not. Not random. Those are editorial decisions made by moderators to serve the purpose of the forum.

This forum has a specific purpose. Every post in this forum must add value to that purpose.* This answers Superheater's question about a new 1361 thread: it will be obvious from the OP if the thread add value or (far more likely) not. It is senseless to tolerate a "not" on the "1 in a million" hope that reply #47 is something worthwhile.

* Excepting, of course, bobharbison's "off-topic stuff and nonsense" catch-all forum. Anything goes there.

I don't cotton to the inevitable pedantry about how we can't know what "good" is. Common sense works, even if rationalizing game players do not like it. That's why the purpose and rules are written down.


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 Post subject: Re: "Railfanning" ?
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:48 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2423
robertmacdowell wrote:
Thread drift happens, but Sandy, you're talking about a particular kind of thread drift, that is almost always from on-topic to off-topic. I prefer "moving", but I have no big problem with "deleting" in that case. Prune the rotten fruit so the tree can grow. Delete bad posts to fix the thread.


My forum software allows me to split threads. So if the recent caboose ID thread drifts into a discussion of the proper techniques to remove paint and document prior paint schemes and numbering, you could split that into a new thread.

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This forum has a specific purpose. Every post in this forum must add value to that purpose.*


Well, the off topic area, when done in moderation, adds value as well. It provides the members someplace to connect on a more personal level. The recent "Get to know you" thread is a good example. Knowing what cartoon character Sandy most resembles really has nothing to do with preservation. However, the thread was popular and helps folks connect. That is the ideal thread for the off topic. Others would include items that are marginally related to railway preservation, such as the occasional discussions of ships.

Quote:
* Excepting, of course, bobharbison's "off-topic stuff and nonsense" catch-all forum. Anything goes there.


No, even that topic requires moderation. In a sort of perverse logic, you have to prevent ON TOPIC discussions from being posted there. That way folks can safely say "I don't have time to jabbering, I only want stuff related to railway preservation" and not worry about missing something important that's posts in the chit-chat topic.

Proper forum management is much trickier than it appears at first glance.


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 Post subject: Re: "Railfanning" ?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:14 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
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Location: S.F. Bay Area
I think everything you said above is right on the money, Bob. I never meant that the "off topic" forum should be all-business as well, it's just the sort of place for folks to get to know each other. There is a compulsive human need for that sort of connection, and people are going to inject it into their forum activity whether you provide a place for it, or not. If not, it'll show up where it does not belong. The same could be said of junkposting.


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 Post subject: Re: "Railfanning" ?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:23 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:56 am
Posts: 28
How nice to see that our stellar reputation here at RYPN receives such high praise elsewhere and others feel the need to keep their distance from us because the reputation is so blinding.

http://forums.railfan.net/forums.cgi?bo ... 1361825972

We are all passionate about this subject but keeping our professionalism should always come first. I think having two boards will only spread the unwanted posts over two boards. There will always be things on this board and the second board that folks just don’t want to read and anger over this and that post because some of us forget to be adults. Oh well just my opinion though.

Pennsy Power


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 Post subject: Re: "Railfanning" ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:49 pm 
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I'll be honest, after reading that LIRR 39 thread debacle in the Railfanning section, among other threads there, please just take it down altogether.

My opinion only.

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 Post subject: Re: "Railfanning" ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:06 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:56 am
Posts: 28
Why is it offensive? Help me to understand why we cannot ask questions such as this: who will cover the operating costs, what are the impacts on the Strasburg when they already have four engines to take care of and have no need for a fifth, and what can other organizations learn from this?

I guess that’s foam right? Are these issues not part of preservation? Is preservation only about parts and paint?

Pennsy Power


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 Post subject: Re: "Railfanning" ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:21 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 704
Pennsy Power wrote:
what are the impacts on the Strasburg when they already have four engines to take care of and have no need for a fifth, and what can other organizations learn from this?

I guess that’s foam right?

Pennsy Power


Yes, it is. How do you know the Strasburg's locomotive situation, and whose business is it besides the railroad itself and it's stockholders?


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 Post subject: Re: "Railfanning" ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:26 pm 
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Pennsy Power wrote:
Why is it offensive? Help me to understand why we cannot ask questions such as this: who will cover the operating costs, what are the impacts on the Strasburg when they already have four engines to take care of and have no need for a fifth, and what can other organizations learn from this?

I guess that’s foam right? Are these issues not part of preservation? Is preservation only about parts and paint?

Pennsy Power


Whoa, I never said anything was offensive.

I have my opinion which I am entitled, just as you are.

My opinion is that the railfanning section detracts from RYPN's intended purpose.

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 Post subject: Re: "Railfanning" ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 6:41 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:56 am
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That’s ok Jeff I too think the railfanning section should not be there as there are many good questions raised there that belong here. Sorry I didn’t mean to accuse of you anything I just find these comments often come because some people here find it offensive.

To Mr. Penn,

Oh and asking about parts IS our business? This is not about whose business it is but simply inquiring not only for our education but the education of other pros in other organizations that may have similar questions about a project such as this. No one is asking for dollar amounts just their thoughts about the project and its impacts. Such questions are part of preservation.

The Strasburg’s situation is obvious considering they have dropped the half hour trains from all weekdays in the summer and they have been doing fine with three engines and now 31 will be out within the next year or so. They may or may not have had a drop in patronage but that does not mean a fifth engine is most beneficial to the business. I am speaking in strictly business terms here. Maybe it will be just fine but why not ask? If you say that's foaming that so are we foaming over parts.

Pennsy Power


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 Post subject: Re: "Railfanning" ?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 12:12 am 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 704
It doesn't matter whether they want 5 engines or 10 engines. That is their business decision. What we think of it doesn't matter.

Their freight business is up and growing, too, but I don't presume to tell them they don't need or can't have another locomotive if they want and are willing to pay for one.


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 Post subject: Re: "Railfanning" ?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 1:46 am 

Joined: Tue May 25, 2010 8:57 pm
Posts: 80
Location: Bozeman, Montana
Lincoln Penn wrote:
It doesn't matter whether they want 5 engines or 10 engines. That is their business decision. What we think of it doesn't matter.

Their freight business is up and growing, too, but I don't presume to tell them they don't need or can't have another locomotive if they want and are willing to pay for one.


Well put!

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 Post subject: Re: "Railfanning" ?
PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:15 am 

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2011 10:56 am
Posts: 28
Nobody isn’t telling them anything. I didn’t say that CAN’T do or have anything. You completely missed the point about how they see the 39 in their current operational needs and how often they plan on using it with four other engines? In other words what are their thoughts here? It is kind of a strange move considering their current needs and such but they obviously did not just make the decision lightly. Perhaps they have a way of adding another engine without increasing the maintenance budge too much. We don’t know and that’s why I ask. We don’t need to know and they don’t have to answer but it would surly add value to the conversation that's all.

But this idea of yours and others that such questions are foaming and the constant foaming over parts is not foaming is stupid. However, that’s my opinion if you all want to pretend you don’t foam go right ahead as I am not here to say anyone can’t. But I’ll be darn if I hear about how inquiring about the details of the agreement for this project is foam while everything else on this board is not.


Pennsy Power


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 Post subject: Re: "Railfanning" ?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 3:42 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2440
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Jeff Lisowski wrote:
I have my opinion which I am entitled, just as you are.

My opinion is that the railfanning section detracts from RYPN's intended purpose.

YES! That's the whole point! And that's what makes it awesome.

Look, it isn't the forum you object to, it's the discussion occurring therein. Well, how would you feel if that discussion was happening out in the main forum. Because that's what was happening before. We can't stop people from discussing a subject. Believe me, it's been tried to death. This forum is a safety valve.

It goes without saying that the stuff on the far side of the safety valve is the very stuff that would otherwise be causing a problem.


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 Post subject: Re: "Railfanning" ?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 7:10 pm 
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robertmacdowell wrote:
Jeff Lisowski wrote:
I have my opinion which I am entitled, just as you are.

My opinion is that the railfanning section detracts from RYPN's intended purpose.

YES! That's the whole point! And that's what makes it awesome.

Look, it isn't the forum you object to, it's the discussion occurring therein. Well, how would you feel if that discussion was happening out in the main forum. Because that's what was happening before. We can't stop people from discussing a subject. Believe me, it's been tried to death. This forum is a safety valve.

It goes without saying that the stuff on the far side of the safety valve is the very stuff that would otherwise be causing a problem.


I guess, it's just hard to see some of that stuff after almost 13 years on the board.

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