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 Post subject: Re: History of the EMD 567 Diesel Engine
PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 10:19 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: History of the EMD 567 Diesel Engine
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:59 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: History of the EMD 567 Diesel Engine
PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 10:12 pm 
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This completes the booklet. The back cover was blank so I didn't scan it.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: History of the EMD 567 Diesel Engine
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 4:32 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 10:06 am
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Location: NE PA
Steve,
Thank you for sharing, a very informative read.
Thanks again,
Mike Tillger


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 Post subject: Re: History of the EMD 567 Diesel Engine
PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:15 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:58 am
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Location: Chicago USA
This was terrific. Thank you for all the hard work.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: History of the EMD 567 Diesel Engine
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:08 pm 
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Mike Tillger wrote:
Steve,
Thank you for sharing, a very informative read.
Thanks again,
Mike Tillger
You are very welcome. My local library found it at UIC in Chicago and loaned it out to me.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: History of the EMD 567 Diesel Engine
PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 11:10 pm 
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filmteknik wrote:
This was terrific. Thank you for all the hard work.

Steve
You are very welcome but compared to working on a dirty, rusty locomotive, what I did was only a few hours of very clean scanning and posting.

I told my friend at the library who found this for me that it has almost 4,000 views and he was in shock. I told him he made it possible for hundreds and probably thousands to now see this history.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: History of the EMD 567 Diesel Engine
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:29 am 
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Additional information on the author of the technical paper: Eugene W. Kettering, son of Charles F. Kettering, joined Winton Engine in 1930. He moved to Detroit in 1936, and was a central figure in the development of the 567 and the Detroit Diesel 6-71. He moved to EMD in 1938, became Chief Engineer at EMD in 1948, then Director of Research in 1955 and subsequently Research Assistant to the General Manager in 1958. He resigned from EMD in 1959 to manage the Kettering family's interests in the various foundations established by Charles F. Kettering. Eugene Kettering passed away in 1969.

PC


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 Post subject: Re: History of the EMD 567 Diesel Engine
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:33 am 
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PCook wrote:
Additional information on the author of the technical paper: Eugene W. Kettering, son of Charles F. Kettering, joined Winton Engine in 1930. He moved to Detroit in 1936, and was a central figure in the development of the 567 and the Detroit Diesel 6-71. He moved to EMD in 1938, became Chief Engineer at EMD in 1948, then Director of Research in 1955 and subsequently Research Assistant to the General Manager in 1958. He resigned from EMD in 1959 to manage the Kettering family's interests in the various foundations established by Charles F. Kettering. Eugene Kettering passed away in 1969.

PC
Do you have a source for that information?

A Google search turned this up:

http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsh ... p?id=15609

Quote:
In 1930, Eugene W. Kettering joined General Motors as a research engineer, and he became a leading figure in the in the evolution of the modern diesel locomotive. After nearly 30 years with General Motors, Eugene Kettering retired and he and his wife, Virginia, devoted their energies to a wide range of philanthropic activities.

When the Air Force Museum Foundation was created in 1960 to fund the building of a new Air Force Museum, Kettering continued his family's interest in aviation and became the foundation's first chairman. He actively assisted in raising funds to construct the Air Force Museum, which opened in 1971.

Kettering supported the museum in many other ways, including the long-term loan of 558 model airplanes from his personal collection in 1962. The models on display give visitors a sense of the technological growth of aviation in a glance.


A very busy man.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: History of the EMD 567 Diesel Engine
PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 11:00 am 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 11:58 am
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Location: Chicago USA
Did Winton make any Diesel (upper case out of respect for that era) engine prior to the 201/201A development? I'm thinking not but maybe they made something not suited to rail or marine use.

If that is the case how is it that they were so far behind the times compared what others were doing? I mean IR/GE/Alco were already selling Diesel locomotives while GM/Winton/EM were putzing around with the 201 at the World Fair. Wouldn't any engine builder have seen the need to develop a Diesel? One wonders what would have happened if the need to power a new yacht had not brought a GM official to Winton, both to the subsequent history of Electro-Motive Engineering and the Winton Engine company.

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: History of the EMD 567 Diesel Engine
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 1:54 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 8:06 pm
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Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Steve Machinehead 61:

Your serializing and posting of this article is welcome and important--- the EMD 567 engine is a railroad milestone.

I would respectfully suggest that you consider most anything from "PCook", especially regarding all things EMD, as gospel. Asking him "do you have a source for that information" is like asking you "do you know anything about George Whitcomb?"

Much as you have researched Whitcomb Loco, Mr. Cook is effectively the Official EMD Historian, even though the current owners have no use for their rich history or legacy.

Yours for more technological history,

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: History of the EMD 567 Diesel Engine
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:41 am 
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Howard P. wrote:
Steve Machinehead 61:

Your serializing and posting of this article is welcome and important--- the EMD 567 engine is a railroad milestone.

I would respectfully suggest that you consider most anything from "PCook", especially regarding all things EMD, as gospel. Asking him "do you have a source for that information" is like asking you "do you know anything about George Whitcomb?"

Much as you have researched Whitcomb Loco, Mr. Cook is effectively the Official EMD Historian, even though the current owners have no use for their rich history or legacy.

Yours for more technological history,

Howard P.
I had no idea that "PCook" was the EMD historian. I certainly intend no disrespect.

It has been my experience that "expert historians" can be in error. A local Rochelle gent who was the assumed "Whitcomb expert" (a bit older than I) had assumed numerous errors when I was able to find the documented history.

I question my own sources on Whitcomb information. Time and again I've seen conflicting information and only trust original documents as authoritative.

Even cited "scholarly" material such as Churella and his "Steam to Diesel" which was originally a Phd thesis was full of errors (cited material having nothing to do with the text and assumed history that was completely wrong).

I've seen company adds contain company history that was in gross error (advertising departments not doing their homework).

Court cases are a study in conflicting history with opposing parties interpreting the exact same documents and events with completely different conclusions and one side leaving out information that the other side had to introduce.

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: History of the EMD 567 Diesel Engine
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:07 am 
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filmteknik wrote:
Did Winton make any Diesel (upper case out of respect for that era) engine prior to the 201/201A development? I'm thinking not but maybe they made something not suited to rail or marine use.

If that is the case how is it that they were so far behind the times compared what others were doing? I mean IR/GE/Alco were already selling Diesel locomotives while GM/Winton/EM were putzing around with the 201 at the World Fair. Wouldn't any engine builder have seen the need to develop a Diesel? One wonders what would have happened if the need to power a new yacht had not brought a GM official to Winton, both to the subsequent history of Electro-Motive Engineering and the Winton Engine company.

Steve

Good questions. Development takes capital investment and I learned that GM must have spent a boat load in developing the 567. I doubt that Winton was big enough to afford a boat load of cash on development.

Found this time period film on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tc6ZfUE4Ez0

Steve

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 Post subject: Re: History of the EMD 567 Diesel Engine
PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 6:10 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:54 am
Posts: 667
Location: NJ
I'm not sure I fully agree with the statement above that "they {Winton} were so far behind the times compared {with} what others were doing?" The comment that IR/GE/Alco was already selling locomotives is correct in fact, but what doesn't come through in that statement is that the prime mover used by IR/GE/Alco was of an earlier generation. What Winton and General Motors were working on was a much lighter, and far higher horsepower engine , with a very favorable horsepower to weight ratio.

My understanding (from Kirkland, et al) is that the IR Price-Rathburn engine was developed for stationary applications, such as power generation and pipeline pumping stations. Similarly, the Baldwin (DeLavernge) engine and the M&S engines used by Alco were based on marine designs. All were much heavier than the 567. The 567 was truly a ground-breaking design. To compare it to the Price-Rathburn engine of ten, fifteen or twenty years earlier is really an apples and oranges comparison.


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 Post subject: Re: History of the EMD 567 Diesel Engine
PostPosted: Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:15 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 8:32 pm
Posts: 187
My thought was always why all of the US manufacturers were slow to develop Diesel. Or did not bother to license a German design in the 1920s.
Blom and Voss seemed do be making viable Diesel engines by 1917.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOvdSknrvLE


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