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 Post subject: Re: N de M 3028
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:15 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
I can hear the whining already!

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 Post subject: Re: N de M 3028
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 4:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 am
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Location: NJ
Its been years since I've ridden the NH&I, but isn't there a parking lot at Lahaska, which is the current runaround? Perhaps the railroad should consider marketing 'free parking' at Lahaska, with the purchase of tickets, of course. This could build ridership and help with traffic in town. Just as long as you don't miss that last train out of town-
("Park, Ride and Shop" won't happen, of course. I have made a similar suggestion with regards to another VERY seasonal operation that serves another tourist community, again with terrible traffic and parking problems. Fell on deaf ears; too logical and not historic enough- but I tried-)


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 Post subject: Re: N de M 3028
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:02 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
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Location: Pottstown,Pa.
It's painfully simple on the parking lot issue. The NH&I lot is the closest to the main drag and thus the most desireable as most folks are lazy. Therefore, they've found that they can charge $ 15 and fill it up. It is an important profit center within itself and certainly helps make the overall operation financially viable. If they felt they could fill it at $ 20 I'm sure they'd raise it to that.

The NH&I RR is a for profit enterprise and a good one at that. You can count on 2 hands the tourist railroads who have figured out how to make a full time living doing this and they're one of the better ones.

The fares shown in junior's recap seem low to me as they get a lot more money than those fares for the very popular North Pole and Santa trains so I don't know where those numbers came from. Oh yes, during the hyper busy Santa season I think they raise the parking to $ 25.....again supply&demand.

Remember they're in it to make money not please the Monday morning quarterbacks on RyPN.

It's your gross and net income that count....not how many people you haul.

Business 101.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: N de M 3028
PostPosted: Mon Sep 16, 2013 5:14 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:47 pm
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I suppose it would be necessary to indicate that NH&I is a shortline railroad that operates a heritage railroad, rather than just a heritage railroad. That would make the complaints of high prices and low ridership irrelevant. It's much like Strasburg, although Strasburg makes the bulk of their money from passengers rather than freight.

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 Post subject: Re: N de M 3028
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:02 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1604
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
Yes, Mr. Yerkes the NH&I is a shortline freight and pssgr. railroad pure and simple. They don't allude to being any kind of museum or historical operation but rather a for profit business that happens to use trains as its way of making a profit.

Yes, and the truth be told they could make even more bottom line profit if they did away with steam and just ran with dismals.....but the owner likes steam.....thank goodness.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: N de M 3028
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 5:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 448
Location: Byers, Colorado
Many guys about my age who were interested in steam missed most of it in the USA, but got a snootfull in Mexico !!! A lot of us went on to find employment working on steam once we got bigger. We all agree that the NdeM Niagaras are gorgeous and historicly significant in their own right, as examples of American export power and as the last class of big steam working in North America. Right now I know of two complete, more or less operable examples -- 3038 in Mexico City, and 3034 in Puebla, both with expired tubes, and both isolated from live rail in their respective exhibit areas.

NOW, to return to the topic, there's just no telling how much I'd gladly pay for a parking spot so I could see her run with her original NdeM paint scheme. And for a chance to ride, fire or drive her a little, the sky's the limit !!!

Reviewing this thread, most of it has not been about 3028. Some of what has, contained Taco Bell jokes, and schemes to disguise her as a US locomotive which we in this country lacked the foresight, ability, or the guts to preserve. There's a good chance this forum is not the place for those of us who genuinely appreciate NdeM 3028 to discuss her. If anybody reading this has an interest similar to mine, I invite you to contact me offlist directly at: catdaddy@netecin.net There is a small group of us privately exchanging NdeM Niagara fotos, plans, stories, and modeling tips, and we welcome any Niagara lovers we have not met yet. The ones we know already are a pretty interesting bunch.

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 Post subject: TAN: Discount with parking
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 7:21 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 3:01 pm
Posts: 1438
Location: SouthEast Pennsylvania
In Nov., 2011, the parking lot ticket was good for a 10% discount in the Gift Shoppe in the Freight Station, but only if accompanied by a railroad ticket.


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 Post subject: Re: N de M 3028
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 9:59 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:47 pm
Posts: 475
co614 wrote:
Yes, Mr. Yerkes the NH&I is a shortline freight and pssgr. railroad pure and simple. They don't allude to being any kind of museum or historical operation but rather a for profit business that happens to use trains as its way of making a profit.

Yes, and the truth be told they could make even more bottom line profit if they did away with steam and just ran with dismals.....but the owner likes steam.....thank goodness.

Ross Rowland


I felt the need to point that out because, at the end of the day, they don't even need to do passenger runs, never mind what's pulling it. It just put into perspective why low ridership and high prices don't seem to matter to management. They can do it that, so they do. Plain and simple.

I've ridden the NH&I. Thought it was a fun ride. I think that's all that would matter here. Not how they run their business, whether it was enjoyable. I think it needs to be accepted in this community that there are businesses out there that run historical objects for a non-historical reason.

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 Post subject: Re: N de M 3028
PostPosted: Tue Sep 17, 2013 10:36 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2332
It is worth noting that within a 30 mile stretch of the Delaware Valley you have three steam railroads operating (NH&I, BR&W and Bel-Del). Each operation has a different "twist" to their offering.

NH&I benefits from being in a "destination" town (and, yes, sometimes that is a challenge, too).

BR&W used to have a destination town in Flemington, but the bloom is off that rose. What they have now is proximity to a growing suburban population.

The Bel-Del has focused a lot on family oriented, special experiences. In my humble POV as a marketer, I would say they are doing a fantastic job of mixing things up and attracting the coveted soccer mom and her brood (I am partial to hockey moms, but whatevs... same difference).

What is interesting (to me) is that when I was a kid 40 years ago the NH&I and BR&W were both running. And still are today, albeit through a lot of evolution. Something must be going right. And BTW New Hope was the most expensive, including the parking issues, 40 years ago. Nothing has changed in that regard.

But now there's a third line... actually more steam to choose from... than when I was a kid. Whodathunk? Let that sink in. More steam lines than there were 40 years ago.

How the lines differentiate themselves will be interesting in the long run. Certainly the NH&I's expanded freight operations out of Lansdale give it a solid business foundation. The Bel-Del has the best scenery of the three but freight dried up. And the BR&W remains a charming throwback, just as it has always been, with - at least from what I saw this summer - a good volunteer base and a growing freight business.

As to that little Alco 4-8-4 at New Hope which started this thread... I say "why not?" When will, way and finances align, things happen.

Did anyone predict back in 1986 that a guy with some cash in his pocket, a 4-6-2 that had spent most of the previous 20 years cold and a CPR Royal Hudson would turn a broken down PRR branchline into a regional railroad that owns three steam locomotives and operates one? That's the Reading & Northern story. It is one of my favorite "never say never" examples. Who knows what the next decades will bring.

It is easy to miss the forest when we are examining the trees.

Rob


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 Post subject: Re: N de M 3028
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:00 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:58 pm
Posts: 80
As a former employee and current ally/friend/consultant to the NHRR, I naturally find this thread interesting. Much of what Junior has posted I might have agreed with at one time or other, as there are certainly some valid points. I've even regrettably shared my own scathing criticism of the operation on this forum, but have since changed my perspective. I think I speak for both of us when I say our criticisms are not driven by resentment of individuals in management, but by concern for the well being of the railroad. I think we can all agree that if the New Hope branch fell idle for a second, it'd be converted to a trail faster than you could blink.
I understand the butts-in-seats perspective, and it sure seems like common sense to agree with that point of view, but the ultimate bottom line is that they are a for-profit corporation. Like their predecessors that built the line, their primary purpose is to make money for their shareholders - not necessarily to fill seats, certainly not to please railfans, and maybe not even to satisfy any particular market segments. The current management is doing a great job fulfilling that primary purpose. I'd bet they're the first to make the property profitable in over 80 years. Maybe they had more butts in seats in the early 90's, but they were on the verge of bankruptcy, so what good is it? It might very well be true that they'd make more money targeting a broader section of the population, but for now, their current strategy produces increasing profits. Hard to argue with that. Should that change, I'm sure they'll adapt appropriately. Now I happen to think the upper middle class is an endangered species, which could affect their customer supply in the future, but I could be wrong. We'll see what happens. But NHRR is in no danger and needs no management change.

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 Post subject: Re: N de M 3028
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 2:37 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
I always liked the NdeM 4-8-4s. They look very similar to the small 4-8-4s that ALCO produced domestically for the NC&STL, the TP&W and the like.

They were also interesting in that they were very late-built steam locomotives, with very primitive features. Just injectors, no feedwater pump, etc. They had the modern cast-steel pilots and I believe Roller bearings on at least some axles. It would be a neat locomotive for someone if the opportunity ever arose.

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 Post subject: Re: N de M 3028
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 12:07 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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QJdriver wrote:
Right now I know of two complete, more or less operable examples -- 3038 in Mexico City, and 3034 in Puebla, both with expired tubes, and both isolated from live rail in their respective exhibit areas.


Sammy -

And how many others still exist down there?

Les


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 Post subject: Re: N de M 3028
PostPosted: Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:17 pm 
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Les Beckman wrote:
QJdriver wrote:
Right now I know of two complete, more or less operable examples -- 3038 in Mexico City, and 3034 in Puebla, both with expired tubes, and both isolated from live rail in their respective exhibit areas.


Sammy -

And how many others still exist down there?

Les


3027 Display Museo del Ferrocarril Guadalajara
3030 Display Depot Zacatecas
3031 Stored Scrapyard Huehuetoca
3033 Display Station Pachuca
3034 Display National Railroad Museum Puebla
3035 Display Rodolfo Landeros Park Aguascalientes
3036 Display Explora Science Park Leon
3038 Display Museo Technologico - Chapultepec Park Ciudad de Mexico
3039 Display Park Monterrey
3040 Stored Alongside Road CF129 Oriental
3056 Stored Bernal Station Tequisquiapan

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 Post subject: Re: N de M 3028
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 1:09 am 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 448
Location: Byers, Colorado
That's better, fellas, three posts in a row about NdeM 3028, but I have a few things to add....

Appliance wise, the NdeM QR-1s were relatively simple, but hardly primative !!! First off, they had (I should say HAVE) integral cast engine beds and cylinders, roller bearings all around on the engine, Elesco exhaust steam ejectors, and modern high pressure boilers with combustion chambers and Nicholson thermic syphons.

When they were new, they only had two one lung airpumps, but they were built for passenger service, and they didn't have to blow up long trains of short cars. When they started working the freight pool, they got cross compound pumps.

This may be news to most Gringos, but in Latin America, it hardly ever freezes anywhere that has train tracks. Hydrostatic lubricators are the choice because we can see every drop of oil going where it needs to go. That's why QR-1s didn't have mechanical lubricators.

Feedwater heaters ??? We have natural feedwateer heaters !!! Most water tanks in Mexico were black painted steel, that water gets pretty warm on a sunny day. The tenders are black painted steel, so the water tends to stay pretty warm. If you fill a black painted boiler with water, let it stand outside on a hot sunny Mexican day, shut the valves and wait awhile, it doesn't take much fuel oil to get steam....

The tender trucks had friction bearings, but so did most passenger cars back then.

There is no longer any railroad scrapyard in Huehuetoca. The site was cleaned out and the ground scraped smooth, when I was there in 2008 it was a pasture with a few donkeys and horses grazing. The location of the 3031 is a museum collection on a private siding between the northbound and southbound mainlines, owned by the Club Amigos del Ferrocarril. It isn't a scrapyard any more than some of the other museum collections I have seen, including some in the USA. Most Gringos have not been fortunate enough to talk to any of the clubmembers while drinking cold beer and scarfing down home made burritos among the Nopales, rabbits, and burros which also inhabit this particular museum site, but if you had, you'd agree. Trust me on this.

And my favorite of all Niagaras, the 3040, is owned by the Museum of Science and Technology (not sure of the exact name) in Xalapa, Vera Cruuz. She's ON DISPLAY in the town of Oriental, because the railroad was afraid she would demolish the track if they went any further. Within the last several years, she has been cleaned up and painted up by some of her admirers. I would be more specific, but I lost all their messages and fotos in the last computer meltdown here.

Speaking of cyber meltdowns, I was unable to attach a scan of the NdeM QR-1 class folio drawing to this post because the file is too big. If anybody wants specifics on 3028, I suggest contacting me offlist: catdaddy@netecin.net

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 Post subject: Re: N de M 3028
PostPosted: Thu Sep 19, 2013 2:25 am 
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Sammy, thanks for the information! I'll correct the database and website today.

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