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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack RR a Sabotage Victim
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:07 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3031
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
More from the ARTA's Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =1&theater

There's something funny about the position of those spikes. Granted, the ties in the photo don't look good at all, but somebody pulled the spikes, even if just by hand. And of course, the track is exempted but passable by the equipment for ferry moves. Not something I would recommend tearing out just yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack RR a Sabotage Victim
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:54 am
Posts: 794
Location: NJ
I have to respectfully disagree with the comment on padlocks. Locks merely keep honest pople honest. I have replaced many a padlock on equipment that I have owned over the years. I even had a (class 1) railroad employee take bolt cutters to a lock on a unit I had in transit, just so he could show his railfan buddies what the inside of an Alco Century cab looked like.

Glad the FRA is in on this one; how about the FBI and TSA?

EDM
Amsterdam Leasing


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack RR a Sabotage Victim
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:11 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3031
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
traingeek8223 wrote:
The arrogance the "anti-rail" crowd shows is amazing. I just can't believe these comments. Inside job? Sympathy for the railroad? ARTA holds no aggression?. . .If the way they talk to people and carry on like they are in grade school is any indication of how they will handle themselves if they get their trail, the debate should be over now. Their selfish motives show in their comments.


It never ceases to amaze me how stupid some people can be, and it's not limited to this trail crowd.

Even more amazing is how cowardly some politicians seem to be around people like this. Some pols are so timid they make me look like Audie Murphy!


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack RR a Sabotage Victim
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:15 pm
Posts: 137
Location: At large
Quote:


This is the stub siding at Sabattis. NONE of the railroad is this bad! This siding has not had maintained since the 1940s and is not even used for storage. It was so bad in 1980 that it was only used for a meet in an emergency situation. It has no reason to even be there anymore and that is why is not maintained. I don't even think it is listed as in service. The idea that any of the rest of the infrastructure is in this condition is absurd. Another good example of the flat out lies ARTA tells to make their case!

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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack RR a Sabotage Victim
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 24, 2008 9:05 pm
Posts: 663
Location: MA
Here is a list of businesses that support tearing up the track http://www.thearta.org/Businesses%20In%20Support.pdf
make sure not to give them your patronage and to tell all your rail fan friends.


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack RR a Sabotage Victim
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 1:30 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:15 pm
Posts: 137
Location: At large
If any body would like to see what the railroad actually looks like, many of my photos are here:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiveThumbs.aspx?id=91524

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiveThumbs.aspx?id=91623

Feel free to link to any if necessary.

As for the business that support the trail, many of them have been dooped by ARTA members or are just desperate for SOMETHING positive to happen and are frustrated by the slow progress of rail revival. Most of them will quickly change their tune if rail service is restored or they are presented with the actual facts.

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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack RR a Sabotage Victim
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 2:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8353
Location: Baltimore, MD
I'm bored this afternoon, so I just left a SCATHING rebuttal to that ARTA photo in a Facebook comment, citing the photo albums and "8223's" comment.

Go run there right now and see how long it stays up before it's deleted.


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack RR a Sabotage Victim
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:38 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:15 pm
Posts: 137
Location: At large
Just checked their comment section following your post. Notice they say that is not where the picture is taken, but don't offer the "real" location. Then they just resort to the same old bullying tactics. I say if the railroad is in as bad shape as they claim, building a trail on it will be impossibly expensive and difficult. And all those "thousands of ties to sell for landscaping material" are by their own definition completely deteriorated. But then again they do not care about contradicting themselves, so long as the counter our good points. I would laugh if it wasn't in reality so sad.

That being said I will caution anyone from spending too much effort commenting on their social media sites. For one, they do not care about facts or opinions that counter theirs and they will bully you to the point of frustration and anger. They seem to really enjoy this method. Secondly, I know for a fact that they record all comments they view as negative and are holding them in reserve as ammo to use to discredit us "train freaks", and they are not above using only select quotes to do this. I have been told this directly by one of ARTA's Director's after simply introducing myself.

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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack RR a Sabotage Victim
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:26 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:05 am
Posts: 98
Can a tie still be sold for landscape use in New York any more. I still think if the tracks are pulled it should become forever wild only you could not keep the four wheelers and dirt bikes off.
Al


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack RR a Sabotage Victim
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:26 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3031
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Thanks for the extra replies, Mr. Mitchell, but watch out, someone there may decide you're being abusive and file a block order on your Facebook account. I still can't post on anything but my own home page, and this is going on the better part of a month.


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack RR a Sabotage Victim
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:35 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:44 pm
Posts: 94
traingeek8223 wrote:
If any body would like to see what the railroad actually looks like, many of my photos are here:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiveThumbs.aspx?id=91524

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiveThumbs.aspx?id=91623


Wow. What a railroad. Would love to see a round trip behind steam someday (must be oil fired in the Adirondacks, yes?)...

Thinking out loud here, the trackage in Tupper Lake looks like it could hold quite a few stored freight cars without hindering access to ATVs and snowmobiles.

Also, it appears that link to the pile of obviously pulled spikes has been removed.

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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack RR a Sabotage Victim
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 9:41 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3031
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
The Fireman wrote:
Wow. What a railroad. Would love to see a round trip behind steam someday (must be oil fired in the Adirondacks, yes?)...


The NYC did run oil-burning steam there; I do believe it may have been seasonal, with the road reverting to coal firing in the winter. Can any historians confirm or correct this?

In addition, the trail people claim the damaged locomotive is already operational again. Is that true?


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack RR a Sabotage Victim
PostPosted: Thu Oct 17, 2013 11:08 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:15 pm
Posts: 137
Location: At large
The hard working mechanics on the Adirondack Scenic do have the locomotive now running. It is still not serviceable yet, but forward progress made nonetheless.

To my knowledge it is not legal to sell used ties in New York State (for landscape) any more. This is one of the facts that ARTA ignores in their math equations.

It was in fact policy to switch from coal to oil fired steam in the NYC days. I believe there is a law still on the books that prohibits the use of coal fired steam locomotives between April 1st and November 1st (I think).

There is a certain oil fired steam locomotive out there that is well suited to this line (weight, TE, minimum radius etc.) that I would personally love to see run here. We are many cubic $$$s and much negotiations away from that though. ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack RR a Sabotage Victim
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:19 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:11 pm
Posts: 345
I hate to go here but reading the posts on the face book page brings up a few thoughts.
1. Owning your own railroad is GREAT. If they were walking our line and taking pictures it makes a great case for trespassing. Before we talk about trails pay your fine.
2. Owning your property makes you able to deal with trail people on your terms or they can go away.
3. When you work with a good park board (reasonable ,well informed realistic etc.) and leave all of the ego's and school yard bull back in 5th grade, things work better.

You also learn some interesting facts. Facts that are real and done elsewhere.
Trails and rails can work together. They actually help each other, compliment each other and draw more people than one by itself.

Here are some interesting facts. Our track is in okay shape, (6 miles) needs work to bring it to a good class 2. 3 miles has not seen a train since 1969. Cost to bring the 3 miles back in service and upgrade the rest of the line? The same as putting the nine miles of bike/hiking trail next to the railroad (actually about 25 to 30 feet of separation). This includes a new good size trail bridge over a river and a trail bridge over a U.S. highway. The rail crossing needs rebuilt there as well. Cost is about the same.

If the businesses knew about the concept of having both options and both options came through with the growth they claim it would be better for them.

Judging by what I have read, these people would argue with our railroad and local park board and tell us we are both wrong and stupid, then they would crack jokes about it trying to make themselves look smart, All the while having no actual experience or proof of what they claim.

To bad there isn't a way to educate the local businesses and local media about the other real options out there.

My personal opinion of snowmobiles and ATV's is If you don't have enough property of your own to operate them don't have them. I like the park boards policy on such equipment, If they catch you on their paths with either, they take them and keep them. It is very hard and expensive to get them back. If you do.


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 Post subject: Re: Adirondack RR a Sabotage Victim
PostPosted: Fri Oct 18, 2013 1:51 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3031
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
I say the trail people, at least here, don't know what they are talking about, don't want to know what they are talking about, don't want anyone else to know what they are talking about, and really, really dislike people who DO know what they are talking about.

The proof is in the comments I've gotten back on my own responses at both the Kingston Daily Freeman and, before the block order came, at the Facebook pages of the Adirondack and Catskill Mountain trail people, plus the block order itself. The Adirondack people in particular, and McCulley especially so, are extremely, shall we say, "focused," and aggressive.

Sadly, the Kingston Daily Freeman has recently changed their webpages, and all the online comments by everybody on the stories have been lost. I can tell you that this is a hot story there, and apparently in the Adirondack area media, too. Some of the stories have received as many as 400 comments--sounds like discussions of the Pennsy K4 here!

One of the stories in the Daily Freeman was on the Adirondack Scenic, with an interesting photo:

http://www.dailyfreeman.com/general-new ... dirondacks

Caption to the photo, linked separately below:

Quote:
In this July 26 photo, Dick Beamish of Saranac Lake, a member of the Adirondack Recreational Trail Advocates, points out a deteriorating section of railroad tracks on a causeway across Lake Clear in Saranac Lake. (AP photo)


http://www.dailyfreeman.com/apps/pbcsi. ... 0&maxw=667

I must have real trouble with my eyes or something. For some reason, I am seeing in the photo what look like three NEW ties, with metal end reinforcements. And this Dick Beamish fellow is pointing out "deteriorating" track. . .

Another copy of the story, with a different photo:

http://poststar.com/news/local/new-york ... 963f4.html


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