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 Post subject: Surviving AT&SF Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 7:20 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 1676
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Overview:

Because of the number of lightweight cars that Santa Fe ordered (1,086), this roster will be divided as follows:

Chairs & Coaches: #1100, #2816-#2945, #3070-#3119, #3137-#3166, #3179, #3187-#3189 (Divided), #3197-#3199 (Observation), #3245-#3248 (Observation), #3480-#3482 (Baggage-Dormitory), #3490-#3493 (Baggage)

Parlor Observations #3240-#3244

Sleepers

Hi-Level El Capitan Cars: Transition-Chairs #526-#549, Lounges #575-#580, Diners #650-#655 & Chairs #700-#736

Full Domes #506-#513, #550-#555 & Super Chief Turquoise Room Short Domes #500-#505

Business Cars #5001-#5004

Diners #600-#606, #1474-#1498 & Lunch Counters #1500-#1507, #1550-#1577

Lounges #1339-#1349, #1370-#1378, #1388-#1399 & Baggage-Lounges #1380-#1387

Railway Post Offices #50-#52, #80-#110, #3400-#3408 (Baggage), #3600-#3606 (Baggage)

Baggage Cars #3409-#3426, #3430-#3466, #3477-#3479 (Dormitory), #3500-#3554, #3650-#3684, #3700-#3939, #3990-#3999

Sale of Santa Fe Cars to Amtrak:

The Santa Fe was by far the largest contributor to Amtrak's Heritage Fleet, with a total of 447 cars sold, including parts cars. This included the Hi-Level cars, almost all of which were converted to head end power (HEP) under contract to AT&SF at the Topeka Shops; the last Hi-Level chairs (by that time modified for and assigned to the Heartland Flyer) were retired in 2007 and five of the Hi-Level lounges are still assigned to the Coast Starlight as the Pacific Parlours for first class (sleeper) passengers. In total, Amtrak converted 220 of its ex-AT&SF cars to HEP. A number of Santa Fe baggage cars are still active, and Amtrak also converted over a dozen chairs to center-door baggage/postal storage cars in the 1990's.

Car Dispositions:

I have the currrent statuses/dispositions of numerous Santa Fe cars in my notes, but it is far from complete.

Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

Coaches & Chairs:

45 cars, Budd, Lot #9613-135, 1953, 48 seat leg rest chairs:

#2816 to Amtrak #4810 to HEP #4712 (1980) to 88 seat Clocker coach #7624 (1983). Stored in 2003 and sold in 2007 to Algoma Central #5656.

#2817 to Amtrak #4811 to HEP #4707 (1980) to 88 seat Clocker coach #7622 (1982). Stored in 2003 and sold in 2007 to Algoma Central #5655.

#2818 to Amtrak #4812 to HEP #4713 (1980) to 88 seat Clocker coach #7627 (1983). Retired and sold in 1997 to Providence & Worcester #7627 and named Rhode Island.

#2819 to Amtrak #4813 to HEP #4718 (1980) to baggage-express #1711 (1996). Stored in 2009. Current status unknown.

#2820 to Amtrak #4814 to HEP #4704 (1980). Retired in 1995 and leased to GE, reconfigured to a research & test car. Lease ended in 2002. Current status unknown.

#2821 to Amtrak #4815 to HEP #4732 (1980) to baggage-express #1704 (1995). Retired in 2005. Current status unknown.

#2822 to Amtrak #4816 to HEP #4705 (1980). Retired in 1995. Current status unknown.

#2823 to Amtrak #4817 to HEP #4700 (1980). Retired and sold in 1995 to Montana Rockies Rail Tours. Was this car used or stored?? Acquired (when??) by MRLX and named Tohatchi, reconfigured to 64 seats (when??). Does anyone know the #800xxx-series number of this car??

#2824 to Amtrak #4818 to HEP #4706 (1980) to 88 seat Clocker coach #7625 (1983). Retired and sold in 1997 to Providence & Worcester #7625.

#2825 sold in 1971 to National Railroad Company (Tulsa) resold (when??) to Amtrak as parts source.

#2826 to Amtrak #4819 to HEP #4725 (1980). Retired and sold in 1995 to ITAX to MRLX (when??) and named Mohave (#800651), reconfigured to 54 seat lounge-coach (when??). Leased to Iowa Pacific-San Luis & Rio Grande and assigned to the Santa Cruz & Monterey Bay.

#2827 to Amtrak #4820 to HEP #4727 (1980) to baggage-express #1702 (1995). Active.

#2828 was wrecked in 1960.

#2829 to Amtrak #4821 to HEP #4716 (1980). Wrecked in 8-1994 on #49 Lake Shore Limited at Batavia, NY. Scrapped?? Current status unknown.

#2830 to Amtrak #4822 to HEP #4708 (1980) to 88 seat Clocker coach #7626 (1983). Retired and sold in 1997 to Providencer & Worcester #7626 and named New York.

#2831 to Amtrak #4823 to HEP #4733 (1980). Retired and sold in 1995 to TCRY Museum (TCRX) #4733.

#2832 to Amtrak #4824. Wrecked in 1976 and sold back to AT&SF in 1977 as a parts source.

#2833 to Amtrak #4825 to HEP #4717 (1980). Retired and sold in 1995 to TCRY Museum (TCRX) #4717.

#2834 to Amtrak #4826 to HEP #4709 (1980) to 88 seat Clocker coach #7621 (1982). Stored in 2003 and sold in 2007 to Algoma Central #5654.

#2835 to Amtrak #4827 to HEP #4714 (1980) to 88 seat Clocker coach #7628 (1983). Retired and sold in 2003 to TCRY Museum (TCRX) #7628.

#2836 to Amtrak #4828 to HEP #4715 (1980). Wrecked on 7-6-1984 on #60 Montrealer at Williston, VT. To baggage-express #1710 (1996). Was this car stored between the wreck in 1984 and conversion in 1996? Active.

#2837 to Amtrak #4850 to HEP #4710 (1980) to 88 seat Clocker coach #7629 (1983). Retired and sold in 2004 to Morristown & Erie #7629. Stored at Cedar Knolls, NJ.

#2838 to Amtrak #4851 to HEP #4735 (1980) to baggage-express #1717 (1996). Active.

#2839 was wrecked in 1960.

#2840 to Amtrak #4852. Retired in 1980. Current status unknown.

#2841 to Amtrak #4853 to HEP #4719 (1980). Retired and sold in 1995 to TCRY Museum (TCRX) #4719.

#2842 to Amtrak #4854 to HEP #4701 (1980) to baggage-express #1706 (1996). Stored in 2001 and sold in 2003 to unknown party. Current status unknown.

#2843 to Amtrak #4855 to HEP #4723 (1980) to baggage-express #1713 (1996) to postal storage #1750. Active.

#2844 to Amtrak #4856 to HEP #4731 (1980) to 88 seat Clocker coach #7623 (1983). Stored in 2003 and sold (when??) to Morristown & Erie #7623, later renumbered (when??) to #1001 and named Pine (#800851).

#2845 to Amtrak #4857 to HEP #4711 (1980). Retired and sold in 1995 to TCRY Museum (TCRX) #4711.

#2846 to Amtrak #4858 to HEP #4702 (1980) to baggage-express #1707 (1996). Wrecked in 4-2011 on #20 Crescent at Slidell, LA, and stored. Current status unknown.

#2847 to Amtrak #4859 to HEP #4720 (1980) to baggage-express #1712 (1996). Active.

#2848 to Amtrak #4860 to HEP #4721 (1980) to 88 seat Clocker coach #7620 (1982). Retired and sold in 2003 to MRLX and named Tolani (#800721).

#2849 to Amtrak #4861 to HEP #4734 (1980). Retired and sold in 1995 to Rail Quest America (RQAX) #4734, leased to Montana Rockies Rail Tours. Sold (when??) to MRLX and named Otowi. Does anyone know the #800xxx-series number of this car??

#2850 to Amtrak #4862 to HEP #4724 (1980) to baggage-express #1714 (1996). Active.

#2851 to Amtrak #4863 to HEP #4728 (1980) to baggage-express #1705 (1996). Active.

#2852 to Amtrak #4864 to HEP #4738 (1980) to baggage-express #1720 (1996). Active.

#2853 to Amtrak #4865 to HEP #4726 (1980) to baggage-express #1715 (1996). Active.

#2854 to Amtrak #4866 to HEP #4736 (1980) to baggage-express #1718 (1996). Stored in 2006. Current status unknown.

#2855 to Amtrak #4867 to HEP #4722 (1980) to baggage-express #1703 (1995). Active.

#2856 to Amtrak #4868 to HEP #4739 (1980). Retired and sold in 1995 to private owner and located at TCRY Museum as TCRX #4739.

#2857 to Amtrak #4869 to HEP #4730 (1980) to baggage-express #1716 (1996). Active.

#2858 to Amtrak #4870 to HEP #4729 (1980). Wrecked on 7-6-1984 on #60 Montrealer at Williston, VT. Scrapped?? Current status unknown.

#2859 to Amtrak #4871 to HEP #4703 (1980) to baggage-express #1708 (1996). Active.

#2860 to Amtrak #4872 to HEP #4737 (1980) to baggage-express #1719 (1996) to postal storage #1761. Active.

Sources:

1. Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society passenger car roster pages: http://www.atsfrr.com/links/atsf/passenger.htm

2. "Streamliner Cars Volume Two: The Budd Company" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

3. "Amtrak by the Numbers" by David C. Warner and Elbert Simon (White River Productions, 2011)

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

_________________
Ted Brumberg


Last edited by Rainier Rails on Mon May 12, 2014 8:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving AT&SF Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 12:01 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 973
Location: Back in NE Ohio
Most likely one of those "status unknown" cars currently sits on what is left of the Erie Lackawanna RoW at Tallmadge, OH with a former B&O caboose as part of a Mexican Restaurant (originally built as the railroad-themed Erie Grille). I've been told the car is definitely Budd ex-ATSF. The restaurant was built in the late '90's, so it was probably acquired from Amtrak during the mass retirement of Heritage cars in that time frame. I'm also told the car is available for group parties, converted to a table car it seats 50. There is sort of a railroad connection to the restaurant. The people who bought the restaurant used to own another Mexican restaurant near Berea Tower, on the North side of the tracks. Food was pretty good there, and I'm told by friends who are regulars at the new place in Tallmadge that the food is good there as well. If I happen to get over that way with time to spare, I'll stop by and see if I can get some kind of car number off of it to bring back to here.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving AT&SF Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 12:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8353
Location: Baltimore, MD
Google Street View lets you drive right up to the car and its adjacent caboose in 2011:

http://goo.gl/maps/gvwYm

The caboose is listed as B&O C2207, originally coming there from Thomas Asphalt Paving in nearby Kent.

A reminder that Brother Rainier still has a multitude of such cars to get to/through, including survivors in the 3100-series mentioned in this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22410

I look at the enormity of the task before him and wish him luck!


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving AT&SF Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 7:01 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 1676
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Thanks, Paul and ADM IV, for the info on the Santa Fe chair in Tallmadge, OH!

Did some looking on RR Picture Archives, and found some informative pictures taken by Fred Stuckmann in April 2009:

B&O caboose #C2207: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1584699

Fred Stuckmann wrote:
Originally ATSF 3145. After a storied history, it was bought by Rick and Mark Bochert in 2006 from the Orville Railroad Historical Society...Rick thought it fitting to decorate this car AGW* because that was the first railroad in town. It would become Erie, then EL.


Side view: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1584702

Angled end and side view: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1584700

*Fred is referring to the Atlantic & Great Western Railway, and the Google Street View shows that the #3145 still carries A&GWRy in the letterboard.

Coaches & Chairs, Continued:

51 cars, P-S, Lot #6734, Plan #7503, 1947, 44 seat leg rest chairs:

45 of the 51 were ordered in August 1944 for the El Capitan, and the remaining six (#2866, #2868, #2871, #2885, #2890 and #2891) were ordered in April 1946 for the Texas Chief, all 51 were delivered between April and October 1947. Karpen leg rests.

#2861 to Amtrak #4470. Sold and retired in 1983 to unknown party. Current status unknown.

#2862 to Amtrak #4480. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2863 to Amtrak #4481. Scrapped in 1973.

#2864 to Amtrak #4482. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2865 to Amtrak #4483. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2866 sold in 1968 to W. Silver & Company (Anthony, TX).

#2867 to Amtrak #4471. Retired in 1984. Current status unknown.

#2868 was scrapped in 1968.

#2869 to Amtrak #4472. Retired in 1979. Current status unknown.

#2870 to Amtrak #4484. Retired and sold in 1976 to the Pullman Pizzeria in Las Cruces, NM. Acquired in 1981 by Jim Bennett, to the Arizona Railway Museum in 1990.

#2871 sold to PC in 1972 and converted to 108 seat commuter coach #2464, later NJT #2464. Current status unknown.

#2872 to Amtrak #4485. Scrapped in 1973.

#2873 to Amtrak #4473. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2874 to Amtrak #4486. Scrapped in 1973.

#2875 to Amtrak #4487. Scrapped in 1973.

#2876 to Amtrak #4488. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2877 to Amtrak #4489. Retired and sold in 1976 to Rail Service Industries (Mira Loma, CA). Current status unknown.

#2878 to Amtrak #4474. Retired in 1976 and sold in 1977 to D.J. Joseph.

#2879 to Amtrak #4490. Scrapped in 1973.

#2880 to Amtrak #4475. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2881 to Amtrak #4491. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2882 to Amtrak #4492. Retired and sold in 1976 to Rail Service Industries. Current status unknown.

#2883 to Amtrak #4493. Scrapped in 1973.

#2884 to Amtrak #4494. Retired in 1979. Current status unknown.

#2885 was wrecked in 1954.

#2886 to Amtrak #4495. Retired in 1980. Current status unknown.

#2887 to Amtrak #4496. Scrapped in 1973.

#2888 to Amtrak #4497. Scrapped in 1973.

#2889 to Amtrak #4476. Stored in 1977. Current status unknown.

#2890 sold in 1972 to PC and converted to 108 seat commuter coach #2465, later NJT #2465. Current status unknown.

#2891 was wrecked in 1960.

#2892 to Amtrak #4498. Scrapped in 1973.

#2893 to Amtrak #4499. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2894 to Amtrak #4500. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2895 to Amtrak #4501. Retired in 1979. Current status unknown.

#2896 to Amtrak #4502. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2897 to Amtrak #4503. Scrapped in 1973.

#2898 to Amtrak #4504. Scrapped in 1973.

#2899 to Amtrak #4505. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2900 to Amtrak #4506. Retired in 1979. Current status unknown.

#2901 to Amtrak #4507. Scrapped in 1973.

#2902 to Amtrak #4508. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2903 to Amtrak #4509. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2904 to Amtrak #4510. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2905 to Amtrak #4511. Retired and sold in 1977 to Levin Iron & Metal Company.

#2906 to Amtrak #4512. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2907 to Amtrak #4513. Scrapped in 1973.

#2908 to Amtrak #4514. Scrapped in 1973.

#2909 to Amtrak #4515. Scrapped in 1973.

#2910 to Amtrak #4516. Scrapped in 1973.

#2911 to Amtrak #4517. Scrapped in 1973.

34 cars, P-S, Lot #W6842*, Plan #7503A, 1950, 44 seat leg rest chairs:

*The "W" designation refers that these cars were assembled at the Osgood-Bradley plant in Worcester, MA.

These chairs were ordered in February 1948 for the El Capitan and were delivered between March and July 1950. Karpen and Heywood-Wakefield leg rests.

#2912 to Amtrak #4518. Retired in 1980. Current status unknown.

#2913 to Amtrak #4519. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2914 was scrapped in 1968.

#2915 to Amtrak #4520. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2916 to Amtrak #4521. Retired and sold in 1977 to the California Grand Prix. Current status unknown.

#2917 to Amtrak #4522. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2918 was wrecked in 1950 and the body was sold to Paramount Pictures.

#2919 to Amtrak #4523. Scrapped in 1973.

#2920 to Amtrak #4524. Wrecked in 1975.

#2921 to Amtrak #4525. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2922 to Amtrak #4526. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2923 to Amtrak #4527. Retired in 1979. Current status unknown.

#2924 sold in 1972 to PC and converted to 108 seat commuter coach #2466, later NJT #2466. Current status unknown.

#2925 to Amtrak #4528. Scrapped in 1973.

#2926 to Amtrak #4529. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2927 to Amtrak #4530. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2928 to Amtrak #4531. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2929 to Amtrak #4532. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2930 to Amtrak #4533. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2931 to Amtrak #4534. Retired and sold in 1981 to Heart of Dixie RR Museum.

#2932 to Amtrak #4535. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2933 to Amtrak #4536. Retired and sold in 1976 to John Greco (Tampa).

#2934 to Amtrak #4537. Retired and sold in 1977 to Kraftours. Current status unknown.

#2935 to Amtrak #4538. Scrapped in 1973.

#2936 to Amtrak #4539. Stored in 1976. Current status unknown.

#2937 to Amtrak #4540. Retired and sold in 1981 to unknown party, later sold (when??) to New Georgia RR. Sold in 1993 to Great Miami RR as FLSX #2937. Stored (when??) on Southwest PA RR at Scottdale, PA. Burned by vandals on 9-4-2011. Stored with another Great Miami ex-NGRR nee-Santa Fe Budd chair I have not been able to identify, NGRX/FLSX #1502.

#2938 to Amtrak #4541. Retired and sold in 1977 to Levin Iron & Metal Company.

#2939 to Amtrak #4542. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2940 to Amtrak #4543. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2941 to Amtrak #4544. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2942 to Amtrak #4545. Retired in 1979. Current status unknown.

#2943 to Amtrak #4546. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#2944 to Amtrak #4547. Retired in 1979. Current status unknown.

#2945 to Amtrak #4548. Retired and sold in 1977 to Trans Pacific Company, later sold (when??) to Ceander, to Northwest Railway Museum #2945 in 1992 (Snoqualmie, WA). Restored to Santa Fe lettering.

One car, Budd, Lot #96300-99, 1936, 52 seat chair:

Ordered in July 1935 and delivered in January 1936.

#3070 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3070. Sold in 1989 to URHS, later resold (when??) to Southerd Construction (Newfoundland, NJ) and scrapped.

One car, StLCC, Lot #1585, 1936, 52 seat chair:

Ordered in October 1935 and delivered in November 1936.

#3071 sold in 1968 to El Paso Iron & Metal.

30 cars, Budd, Lot #977, 1937, 52 seat chair:

Ordered in February 1937 for the Scout and delivered between July and October 1937.

#3072 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3072. Sold in 1989 to Indiana Transportation Museum #3072 (Noblesville).

#3073 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3073. Current status unknown.

#3074 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3074. Sold in 1989 to Green Mountain RR #3074.

#3075 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3075. Sold in 1989 to Green Mountain RR #3075.

#3076 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3076. Current status unknown.

#3077 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3077. Current status unknown.

#3078 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3078. Sold in 1989 to Indiana Transportation Museum #3078 (Noblesville).

#3079 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3079. Sold in 1989 to URHS. Sold in 1991 to John McMath and converted in 1996 to 2DR-2DB lounge sleeper observation Cocoa Grove (#800379), later renamed Diablo Canyon. To Arizona Railway Museum in 2005.

#3080 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 84 seat commuter coach #2400, later NJT #2400. Sold in 1985? to Chuck & Eddie's Recycling (New Haven) resold to Valley RR, then to Steve Zuiderveen, sold in 1988 to Kasten Railcar. Current status unknown.

#3081 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3081. Sold in 1989 to Indiana Transportation Museum #3081 (Noblesville).

#3082 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3082. Current status unknown.

#3083 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3083. Current status unknown.

#3084 was wrecked in 1967.

#3085 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3085. Sold in 1989 to Cedar Rapids & Iowa City, resold in 1994 to CVSR. Does anyone know the #11x-series CRANDIC/CVSR number of this car?? With the arrival of the PRR Inn-Series commuter coaches, most of the CVSR ex-Santa Fe coaches were sold--does anyone know if the #3085 was retained or sold??

#3086 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3086. Current status unknown.

#3087 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3087. Current status unknown.

#3088 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3088. Current status unknown.

#3089 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3089. Sold in 1989 to Green Mountain RR #3089.

#3090 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3090. Sold in 1989 to Winnipesaukee Scenic RR #3090, resold (when??) to Maine Coast RR #3090. Stored (when??) in Ayer, MA.

#3091 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3091. Sold in 1989 to Green Mountain RR #3091.

#3092 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3092. Sold in 1989 to Indiana Transportation Museum #3092 (Noblesville).

#3093 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3093. Sold in 1989 to Indiana Transportation Museum #3093 (Noblesville).

#3094 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3094. Current status unknown.

#3095 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3095. Sold in 1989 to Indiana Transportation Museum #3095 (Noblesville).

#3096 sold in 1969 to PC and converted to 84 seat commuter coach #2401, later NJT #2401. Sold in 1989 to Indiana Transportation Museum #3096 (Noblesville).

#3097 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3097. Current status unknown.

#3098 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3098. Current status unknown.

#3099 sold in 1969 to NJDOT and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #3099. Sold in 1989 to Indiana Transportation Museum #3099 (Noblesville).

#3100 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 84 seat commuter coach #2402, later NJT #2402. Current status unknown.

#3101 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 84 seat commuter coach #2403, later NJT #2403. Sold in 1989 to Green Mountain RR #3101.

One car, Budd, Lot #999A, 1938, 48 seat chair-news stand:

Ordered in September 1937 and delivered in February 1938.

#3102 sold in 1969 to PC and converted to 100 seat commuter coach #2410, later NJT #2410. Current status unknown.

Sixteen cars, Budd, Lot #999B, 1938, 52 seat chairs:

Ordered in September 1937 and delivered between January and March 1938.

#3103 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 100 seat commuter coach #2411, later NJT #2411. Sold to Steve Zuiderveen, resold in 1988 to Washington Central RR, resold to Cedar Rapids & Iowa City #111. Sold in 1994 to CVSR #111.

#3104 sold in 1969 to PC and converted to 100 seat commuter coach #2412, later NJT #2412. Current status unknown.

#3105 sold in 1969 to PC and converted to 100 seat commuter coach #2413, later NJT #2413. Sold in 1989 to Cedar Rapids & Iowa City #113. Sold in 1994 to CVSR #113. Sold in 2005 to Oklahoma RY Museum and named The Oklahoman.

#3106 sold in 1969 to PC and converted to 100 seat commuter coach #2414, later NJT #2414. Sold in 1985? to Chuck & Eddie's Recycling (New Haven) resold to Valley RR, then to Steve Zuiderveen, sold in 1988 to Washington Central RR for Spirit of Washington Dinner Train in Renton, WA. Operation closed in 2005 after moving to Tacoma, WA, and cars stored on Chelatchie Prairie RR in Vancouver, WA. Cars sold in 2012 to Iowa Pacific-San Luis & Rio Grande for the Santa Cruz & Monterey Bay. Washington Central had retained two of the ex-AT&SF chairs, and converted one to table car #103 Cascade and the other to half open air observation-half closed table car #101 Olympic--does anyone know which car was which??

#3107 sold in 1969 to PC and converted to 100 seat commuter coach #2415, later NJT #2415. Current status unknown.

#3108 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 84 seat commuter coach #2404. Burned in 1977.

#3109 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 100 seat commuter coach #2416, later NJT #2416. Sold in 1989 to Cedar Rapids & Iowa City #112. Sold in 1994 to CVSR #112.

#3110 sold in 1969 to PC and converted to 100 seat commuter coach #2417, later NJT #2417. Current status unknown.

#3111 sold in 1967 to E.V. "Red" Stadler (Topeka). Current status unknown.

#3112 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 100 seat commuter coach #2418, later NJT #2418. Current status unknown.

#3113 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 100 seat commuter coach #2419, later NJT #2419. Sold in 1985? to Chuck & Eddie's Recycling (New Haven) resold to Valley RR, then to Steve Zuiderveen, sold in 1988 to gift shop in Volant, PA, later sold (when??) to Harlansburg Station (Harlansburg, PA).

#3114 sold in 1969 to PC and converted to 100 seat commuter coach #2420, later NJT #2420. Sold to Steve Zuiderveen, resold in 1988 to Washington Central RR for Spirit of Washington Dinner Train in Renton, WA. Operation closed in 2005 after moving to Tacoma, WA, and cars stored on Chelatchie Prairie RR in Vancouver, WA. Cars sold in 2012 to Iowa Pacific-San Luis & Rio Grande for the Santa Cruz & Monterey Bay. Washington Central had retained two of the ex-AT&SF chairs, and converted one to table car #103 Cascade and the other to half open air observation-half closed table car #101 Olympic--does anyone know which car was which??

#3115 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 84 seat commuter coach #2405, later NJT #2405. Current status unknown.

#3116 sold in 1969 to PC and converted to 100 seat commuter coach #2421, later NJT #2421. Sold in 1985? to Chuck & Eddie's Recycling (New Haven) resold to Valley RR, then to Steve Zuiderveen, sold in 1988 to gift shop in Volant, PA, later sold (when??) to Harlansburg Station (Harlansburg, PA).

#3117 reconfigured in June 1938 to 28 seat club lounge-26 seat chair, reconfigured in 1962 to 46 seat club lounge. Sold in 1968 to MTA #2178, converted later that year to 106 seat commuter coach #4450. Current status unknown.

#3118 reconfigured in June 1938 to 28 seat club lounge-26 seat chair, reconfigured in 1962 to 46 seat club lounge. Sold in 1968 to David Wallace (Temple, TX). Current status unknown.

Sources:

1. Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society passenger car roster pages: http://www.atsfrr.com/links/atsf/passenger.htm

2. "Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

3. "Streamliner Cars Volume Two: The Budd Company" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

4. "Streamliner Cars Volume Three: ACF - Other Builders" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1982)

5. "Amtrak by the Numbers" by David C. Warner and Elbert Simon (White River Productions, 2011)

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

_________________
Ted Brumberg


Last edited by Rainier Rails on Mon May 12, 2014 8:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving AT&SF Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 12:19 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 1676
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Chairs & Coaches, Continued:

One car, Pacific Railway Equipment Company, 1941, 56 seat chair:

Ordered in June 1939 and delivered in November 1941.

#1100 scrapped in 1964.

One car, Budd, Lot #96602 (#96838), 1940, 52 seat chair:

Ordered in November 1939 and delivered in March 1940.

#3119 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 84 seat commuter coach #2406, later NJT #2406. Current status unknown.

Fourteen cars, Budd, Lot #96908, 1941, 52 seat chair:

Ordered in November 1940 and delivered between March and June 1941.

#3137 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 100 seat commuter coach #2422, later NJT #2422. Sold in 1985? to Chuck & Eddie's Recycling (New Haven) resold to Valley RR, then to Steve Zuiderveen, sold in 1988 to Kasten Railcar. Sold (when??) to Southern Constructors, located at the Forks of the River Industrial Park in Knoxville, TN.

#3138 to Amtrak #5225 reconfigured in 1975 to 60 seat coach #6033. Retired in 1976 and sold in 1977 to Speno. Current status unknown.

#3139 to Amtrak #5226. Intended reconfiguration to 60 seat coach #6034 was cancelled. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#3140 to Amtrak #5227 reconfigured in 1975 to 60 seat coach #6035. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#3141 to Amtrak #5228. Intended reconfiguration to 60 seat coach #6036 was cancelled. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#3142 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 78 seat commuter coach #2427, later MTA #2427. Current status unknown.

#3143 to Amtrak #5229. Wrecked in 1973.

#3144 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 86 seat commuter coach #2428, later MTA #2428. Current status unknown.

#3145 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 86 seat commuter coach #2429, later MTA #2429. Sold in 1985? to Chuck & Eddie's Recycling (New Haven) resold to RMNE, then to Orrville Railroad Historical Society in 1989?. Sold in 2006 to Rick and Mark Bochert for the Erie Station Grille in Tallmadge, OH.

#3146 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 86 seat commuter coach #2430, later MTA #2430. Scrapped in 1974.

#3147 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 86 seat commuter coach #2431, later MTA #2431. Current status unknown.

#3148 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 86 seat commuter coach #2432, later MTA #2432. Current status unknown.

#3149 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 86 seat commuter coach #2433, later MTA #2433. Current status unknown.

#3150 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 86 seat commuter coach #2434, later MTA #2434. Scrapped in 1973.

Sixteen cars, Budd, Lot #9613-001, 1945-46, 52 seat chair:

Ordered in May 1941 and delivered between December 1945 and March 1946.

#3151 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 86 seat commuter coach #2435, later MTA #2435. Current status unknown.

#3152 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 86 seat commuter coach #2436, later MTA #2436. Current status unknown.

#3153 reconfigured in 1953 to 32 seat chair 9 seat lounge (automat) reconfigured back to 52 seat chair in 1965 to Amtrak #5230. Intended reconfiguration to 60 seat coach #6037 was cancelled. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#3154 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 86 seat commuter coach #2437, later MTA #2437. Current status unknown.

#3155 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 86 seat commuter coach #2438, later MTA #2438. Sold (when??) to Madison Depot Restaurant (Madison, WI).

#3156 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 86 seat commuter coach #2439, later MTA #2439. Current status unknown.

#3157 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 102 seat commuter coach #2440, later MTA #2440. Current status unknown.

#3158 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 102 seat commuter coach #2441, later MTA #2441. Current status unknown.

#3159 to Amtrak #5231. Intended reconfiguration to 60 seat coach #6038 was cancelled. Retired and sold in 1981 to restaurant in Prescott, AZ, then stored sans trucks. Cut up into sections by local scrap yard.

#3160 to Amtrak #5232. Intended reconfiguration to 60 seat coach #6039 was cancelled. Retired and sold in 1976 to Rail Service Industries (Mira Loma, CA). Sold (when??) to unknown party in Los Angeles. Sold in 2013 to Austin Steam Train-Austin & Texas Central RR.

#3161 to Amtrak #5233 reconfigured in 1975 to 60 seat coach #6040 to buffer car #10605 (when??). Current status unknown.

#3162 to Amtrak #5234 reconfigured in 1976 to 60 seat coach #6041 to buffer car #10601 in 1977. Current status unknown.

#3163 to Amtrak #5235. Intended reconfiguration to 60 seat coach #6042 was cancelled. Retired and sold in 1981 to Rail Service Industries. Sold (when??) to unknown party in Los Angeles. Sold in 2013 to Austin Steam Train-Austin & Texas Central RR.

#3164 was wrecked in 1964.

#3165 sold in 1969 to PC and converted to 82 seat commuter coach #2423, later NJT #2423. Sold in 1989 to Cedar Rapids & Iowa City, resold in 1994 to CVSR. Does anyone know the CRANDIC/CVSR #11x-series number of this car?? When the PRR Inn-Series commuter coaches arrived, most of the CVSR ex-Sante Fe chairs were sold--does anyone know if the #3165 was sold or retained??

#3166 to Amtrak #5236 reconfigured in 1976 to 60 seat coach #6043. Retired in 1977 and sold in 1981 to Vandenberg AFB for planned use as a hospitality office. Sold in 1990 to Jon Clark, resold in 1993 to Rail Preservation Incorporated, reconfigured to club lounge and renamed Regal Phoenix. To Arizona Railway Museum in 1996.

One car, P-S, Lot #6734, Plan #7508, 1947, 26 seat chair-news stand-31 seat club lounge:

Ordered in August 1944 and delivered in October 1947.

#3179 converted in 1969 to diesel instruction #5008 renumbered in 1974 to #70. Current status unknown.

Three cars, P-S, Lot #6734, Plan #7504, 1947, 50 seat divided coach:

Ordered in April 1946 for Texas Chief and delivered between August and September 1947.

#3187 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 78 seat commuter coach #2460, later MTA #2460. Current status unknown.

#3188 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 78 seat commuter coach #2461, later MTA #2461. Current status unknown.

#3189 sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 78 seat commuter coach #2462, later MTA #2462. Scrapped in 1977.

One car, P-S, Lot #6601, Plan #7428, 1940, 50 seat chair-2 seat smoker observation:

Ordered in July 1939 for El Capitan and delivered in March 1940.

#3197 reassigned in 1947 to Clovis-Carlsbad and seating was reduced to 36 leg rest chairs. Used with M190 and M160. Sold in 1968 to Southwest RHS, later Age of Steam, now Museum of the American RR (Frisco, TX). One of only two AT&SF round end observations not rebuilt to flat or blunt ends; the other being sleeper lounge observation Navajo from the 1937 Super Chief.

Two cars, Budd, Lot #992, 1938, 50 seat chair-2 seat smoker observation:

Ordered in August 1937 for El Capitan and delivered in February 1938.

#3198 seating reduced in 1947 to 36 chairs (leg rests?). Rebuilt (with flat end) in 1961 to 44 seat chair #2946. Sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 100 seat commuter coach #2424, later NJT #2424. Current status unknown.

#3199 seating reduced in 1947 to 36 chairs (leg rests?). Rebuilt (with flat end) in 1960 to 44 seat chair #2947. Sold in 1969 to PC and converted to 84 seat commuter coach #2407, later NJT #2407. Sold in 1989 to Cedar Rapids & Iowa City #115. Sold in 1994 to CVSR #115. Sold in 2005 to Oklahoma RY Museum #115 and named Kerr McGee Explorer.

One car, Budd, Lot #96906, 1941, 58 seat* chair-2 seat smoker observation:

Ordered in November 1940 and delivered in May 1941.

#3245 seating reduced in 1947 to 36 chairs (leg rests?). Rebuilt (with flat end) in 1962 to 44 seat chair #2960 to Amtrak #4462. Retired and sold in 1981 to private owner and located at Pacific Southwest RY Museum.

*Randall lists 58 chairs, and another source lists 54 chairs.

Three cars, P-S, Lot #6734, Plan #7505, 1947, 42 seat chair-2 seat smoker* observation:

Ordered in April 1946 for El Capitan and delivered between September and October 1947. Karpen leg rests.

#3246 rebuilt (with flat end) in 1962 to 48 seat chair #2791 to Amtrak #4880. Retired and sold in 1976 to Rail Service Industries. Current status unknown.

#3247 rebuilt (with flat end) in 1962 to 48 seat chair #2792. Sold in 1972 to PC and converted to 108 seat commuter coach #2463, later NJT #2463. Current status unknown.

#3248 rebuilt (with flat end) in 1962 to 48 seat chair #2793 to Amtrak #4881. Retired and sold in 1976 to John Greco (Tampa). Current status unknown.

*Randall lists a 2 seat smoker, and another source lists a writing desk as being located at the observation end.

Parlor Observations:

Five cars, Budd, Lot #996, 32 seat parlor-1 seat lounge observation:

Ordered in September 1937 and delivered in March 1938.

#3240 reconfigured in June 1938 to 58 seat chair-2 seat smoker, seating reduced in 1947 to 36 chairs (leg rests?). Rebuilt (with flat end) in 1962 to 44 seat chair #2957. Sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 100 seat commuter coach #2426, later NJT #2426. Current status unknown.

#3241 rebuilt (with flat end) in 1959 to 44 seat chair #2948. Sold in 1969 to PC and converted to 84 seat commuter coach #2408, later NJT #2408. Sold in 1989 to Wallowa Union RR #3241 (Elgin, OR).

#3242 rebuilt (with flat end) in 1959 to 44 seat chair #2949. Sold in 1969 to PC and converted to 84 seat commuter coach #2409, later NJT #2409. Current status unknown.

#3243 reconfigured in June 1938 to 58 seat chair-2 seat smoker, seating reduced in 1947 to 36 chairs (leg rests?). Rebuilt (with flat end) in 1962 to 44 seat chair #2958 to Amtrak #4460. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#3244 reconfigured in June 1938 to 58 seat chair-2 seat smoker, seating reduced in 1947 to 36 chairs (leg rests?). Rebuilt (with flat end) in 1962 to 44 seat chair #2959 to Amtrak #4461. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

Sources:

1. Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society passenger car roster pages: http://www.atsfrr.com/links/atsf/passenger.htm

2. "Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

3. "Streamliner Cars Volume Two: The Budd Company" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

4. "Streamliner Cars Volume Three: ACF - Other Builders" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1982)

5. "Amtrak by the Numbers" by David C. Warner and Elbert Simon (White River Productions, 2011)

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

_________________
Ted Brumberg


Last edited by Rainier Rails on Mon May 12, 2014 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving AT&SF Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 5:55 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 1676
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Sleepers:

27 cars, Budd, Lot #9660-038, Plan #9521, 10RM-6DB:

Ordered in January 1948 and delivered between December 1949 and March 1950.

#1617 Pine Arroyo to Amtrak #2710 to HEP #2983 (1978) reconfigured to crew dormitory-lounge #2515 (1998). Stored in 2007. Current status unknown.

#1618 Pine Beach to Amtrak #2711 to HEP #2991 (1978) reconfigured to crew dormitory-lounge #2501 (1997). Stored in 2007. Current status unknown.

#1619 Pine Bell sold in 1968 to Industrial Service & Salvage (Joliet, IL).

#1620 Pine Bluff sold in 1968 to W. Silver & Company (Anthony, TX).

#1621 Pine Brook to Amtrak #2712 to HEP #2995 (1978) reconfigured to crew dormitory-lounge #2500 (1997). Stored in 2006. Current status unknown.

#1622 Pine Cavern to Amtrak #2713 to HEP #2984 (1978). Stored in 1995 and sold (when??) to Wisconsin & Southern #2984 and renamed Notre Dame.

#1623 Pine Cove sold in 1968 to Industrial Service & Salvage.

#1624 Pine Creek to Amtrak #2714 to HEP #2980 (1977) reconfigured to crew dormitory-lounge #2522 (1999). Wrecked in 2004, stored, and retired in 2007. Current status unknown.

#1625 Pine Crest to Amtrak #2715 to HEP #2981 (1978). Retired and sold in 1984 to unknown party. Current status unknown.

#1626 Pine Dale to Amtrak #2716 to HEP #2988 (1978). Retired in 1995. Current status unknown.

#1627 Pine Fern to Amtrak #2717 to HEP #2989 (1978) reconfigured to crew dormitory-lounge #2514 (1998). Stored in 2006. Current status unknown.

#1628 Pine Dawn to Amtrak #2718 to HEP #2459 (1981). Stored in 1997 and sold (when??) to Jon Clark.

#1629 Pine Gem to Amtrak #2719. Retired and sold in 1977 to Lake Shore RHS. Sold (when??) to ITAX. Current status unknown.

#1630 Pine Gorge to Amtrak #2720 to HEP #2993 (1978) reconfigured to crew dormitory-lounge #2519 (1998). Stored in 2006. Current status unknown.

#1631 Pine Grove to Amtrak #2721 to HEP #2990 and renamed Joseph V. MacDonald (1978). Retired and sold in 1995 to Jim Stephenson (Houston).

#1632 Pine Hill to Amtrak #2733 to HEP #2996 (1978) reconfigured to crew dormitory-lounge #2503 (1997). Stored in 2007. Current status unknown.

#1633 Pine Island to Amtrak #2722 to HEP #2460 (1981). Retired in 1997 and sold (when??) to ITAX. Current status unknown.

#1634 Pine King to Amtrak #2723 to HEP #2985 (1978) reconfigured to crew dormitory-lounge #2512 (1998). Stored in 2007. Current status unknown.

#1635 Pine Leaf to Amtrak #2724 to HEP #2458 (1981). Retired and sold in 2001 to ITAX. Current status unknown.

#1636 Pine Lodge to Amtrak #2725 to HEP #2994 (1978) reconfigured to crew dormitory-lounge #2523 (1999). Stored in 2007. Current status unknown.

#1637 Pine Mesa to Amtrak #2726 to HEP #2986 (1978). Retired and sold in 1995 to Temple RR & Heritage Museum (Temple, TX).

#1638 Pine Pass to Amtrak #2727 to HEP #2457 (1981). Retired and sold in 1995 to ITAX, noted as parts source. Current status unknown.

#1639 Pine Peak to Amtrak #2728 to HEP #2992 (1978) reconfigured to crew dormitory-lounge #2506 (1997). Stored in 2007. Current status unknown.

#1640 Pine Rapids to Amtrak #2729 to HEP #2982 (1977). Retired in 1985. Current status unknown.

#1641 Pine Range to Amtrak #2730. Retired and sold in 1975 to Tuman Demolition (Joplin, MO).

#1642 Pine Ring to Amtrak #2731 to HEP #2997 (1978). Retired and sold in 1995 to ITAX. Sold in 2005 to Museum of the American RR (Frisco, TX).

#1643 Pine Shore to Amtrak #2732 to HEP #2987 (1978) reconfigured to crew dormitory-lounge #2518 (1998). Stored in 2006. Current status unknown.

Sources:

1. Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society passenger car roster pages: http://www.atsfrr.com/links/atsf/passenger.htm

2. "Streamliner Cars Volume Two: The Budd Company" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

3. "Amtrak by the Numbers" by David C. Warner and Elbert Simon (White River Productions, 2011)

4. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

_________________
Ted Brumberg


Last edited by Rainier Rails on Mon May 12, 2014 8:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving AT&SF Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 10:22 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:34 pm
Posts: 631
Location: Union, IL
A couple of online search results:

Pine Gem listed here: http://www.gatewayrailservices.com/equipment_sales.html
Pine Island and Pine Leaf shown here in 2009: https://www.flickr.com/photos/23711298@N07/3836164538/

_________________
Frank Hicks
Preserved North American Electric Railway Equipment News
Hicks Car Works


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving AT&SF Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 6:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 1676
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Thanks, Frank, for the info on Pine Gem, Pine Island, and Pine Leaf!

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Ted Brumberg


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving AT&SF Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Thu May 08, 2014 8:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 1676
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Sleepers, Continued:

Nineteen cars, P-S, Lot #6757, Plan #4145, 1947-48, 10RM-3DB-2C:

Ordered in July 1945 for Super Chief and delivered between November 1947 and March 1948.

#204 Blue Bay sold in 1968 to W. Silver & Company (Anthony, TX).

#205 Blue Bell sold in 1968 to W. Silver & Company.

#206 Blue Flag sold in 1968 to W. Silver & Company.

#207 Blue Gem sold in 1970 to W. Silver & Company.

#208 Blue Grass to Amtrak #2500. Scrapped in 1973.

#209 Blue Grove to Amtrak #2501. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#210 Blue Heart sold in 1968 to W. Silver & Company.

#211 Blue Heron sold in 1968 to W. Silver & Company.

#212 Blue Hill sold in 1970 to W. Silver & Company.

#213 Blue Island to Amtrak #2502. Scrapped in 1973.

#214 Blue Lake to Amtrak #2503. Scrapped in 1973.

#215 Blue Moon to Amtrak #2504. Retired and sold in 1975 to D.J. Joseph.

#216 Blue Mound sold in 1968 to W. Silver & Company.

#217 Blue Mott to Amtrak #2505. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#218 Blue Point sold in 1970 to W. Silver & Company.

#219 Blue Pond to Amtrak #2506. Scrapped in 1973.

#220 Blue Ridge to Amtrak #2507. Scrapped in 1973.

#221 Blue Springs sold in 1968 to W. Silver & Company.

#222 Blue Water to Amtrak #2508. Retired in 1979. Current status unknown.

Twelve cars, P-S, Lot #6757, Plan #4100B, 24DXR:

Ordered in July 1945 and delivered between June and August 1947. Assigned to Kansas City Chief, Texas Chief, Grand Canyon Limited, and San Francisco Chief. All twelve were rebuilt in 1964 to 11DB to Plan #6007A.

#901 Indian Arrow (1st) redesignated dormitory #3475 (1962) redesignated sleeper #901 and renamed Indian Lake (2nd) (1964) to Amtrak #2214. Retirement date not listed. Current status unknown.

#902 Indian Canoe to Amtrak #2210. Retired and sold in 1976 to M. Katch & Company.

#903 Indian Drum to Amtrak #2211. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#904 Indian Falls to Amtrak #2212. Retired in 1980. Current status unknown.

#905 Indian Flute to Amtrak #2213. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#906 Indian Lake (1st) redesignated dormitory #3474 (1962) redesignated sleeper #906 and renamed Indian Arrow (2nd) (1964). Sold in 1968 to W. Silver & Company.

#907 Indian Maid to Amtrak #2215. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#908 Indian Mesa to Amtrak #2216. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#909 Indian Pony to Amtrak #2217. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#910 Indian Scout to Amtrak #2218. Retired and sold in 1976 to Ringling Brothers #59. Current status unknown.

#911 Indian Song to Amtrak #2219. Retired and sold in 1977 to Corry Jones (Indianapolis). Current status unknown.

#912 Indian Squaw to Amtrak #2220. Retired in 1980. Current status unknown.

Thirteen cars, AC&F, Lot #3359, Plan #9014, 1951, 10RM-6DB:

Ordered in January 1948 and delivered between June and September 1951.

#1601 Palm Arch to Amtrak #2750. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#1602 Palm Dome to Amtrak #2751. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#1603 Palm Haven to Amtrak #2752. Retired and sold in 1976 to M. Katch & Company.

#1604 Palm Leaf to Amtrak #2753. Retired and sold in 1981 to private ownership #800237.

#1605 Palm Loch to Amtrak #2754. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#1606 Palm Lore to Amtrak #2755. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#1607 Palm Path to Amtrak #2756. Retired in 1980. Current status unknown.

#1608 Palm Star to Amtrak #2757. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#1609 Palm Stream to Amtrak #2758. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#1610 Palm Summit to Amtrak #2759. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#1611 Palm Top to Amtrak #2760. Retired and sold in 1981 to Golden Arrow Tours. Current status unknown.

#1612 Palm Tower to Amtrak #2761. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#1613 Palm View to Amtrak #2762. Retired in 1980. Current status unknown.

Fifteen cars, AC&F, Lot #3358, Plan #9011, 1950, 4DB-4C-2DR:

Ordered in January 1948 and delivered between September and November 1950.

#1804 Regal Arms sold in 1971 to Auto Train #201. Current status unknown.

#1807 Regal Corps sold in 1971 to Auto Train #202. Current status unknown.

#1808 Regal Court sold in 1971 to Auto Train #203. Current status unknown.

#1810 Regal Crest retained (1971) renumbered #63 (1974) to BNSF geometry support car #81 (#800724).

#1813 Regal Dome to Amtrak #2350. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#1814 Regal Elm sold in 1971 to Auto Train #204. Current status unknown.

#1815 Regal Gate sold in 1971 to Auto Train #205. Current status unknown.

#1817 Regal Gulf sold in 1971 to Auto Train #206. Current status unknown.

#1820 Regal Hunt retained (1971) renumbered #64 (1974) to BNSF #64 and renamed Marias Pass (#800661).

#1821 Regal Inn to Amtrak #2351. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#1822 Regal Isle to Amtrak #2352. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#1823 Regal Lane retained (1971) renumbered #65 (1974) to BNSF #65 and renamed Raton Pass (#800662).

#1824 Regal Lark retained (1971) renumbered #66 (1974) to BNSF #66 and renamed Cajon Pass (#800663).

#1825 Regal Manor retained (1971) renumbered #67 (1974) to BNSF #67 and renamed Donner Pass, later renamed Trinchera Pass (#800667).

#1831 Regal Spa retained (1971) renumbered #68 (1974) to BNSF #68 and renamed Rollins Pass (#800664).

Sixteen cars, P-S, Lot #6757, Plan #4144, 1947-48, 4DB-4C-2DR:

Ordered in July 1945 and delivered between December 1947 and February 1948.

#1805 Regal Center to Amtrak #2360. Retired and sold in 1975 to M. Katch & Company.

#1806 Regal City to Amtrak #2361. Retired and sold in 1981 to Memphis Transportation Museum and renamed Winston Hoover (Collierville, TN).

#1809 Regal Creek to Amtrak #2362. Retired and sold in 1981 to private owner and used in charter service on Tex-Mex RR. Current status unknown.

#1811 Regal Cross sold in 1969 to W. Silver & Company.

#1812 Regal Crown to Amtrak #2363. Scrapped in 1973.

#1816 Regal Gorge to Amtrak #2364. Scrapped in 1973.

#1818 Regal Hill to Amtrak #2365. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#1826 Regal Oak sold in 1969 to W. Silver & Company.

#1827 Regal Pass to Amtrak #2366. Stored in 1977. Current status unknown.

#1828 Regal Ring sold in 1969 to W. Silver & Company.

#1829 Regal River to Amtrak #2367. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#1830 Regal Ruby to Amtrak #2368. Retired in 1979. Current status unknown.

#1832 Regal Stream to Amtrak #2369. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

#1833 Regal Temple sold in 1969 to W. Silver & Company.

#1834 Regal Town to Amtrak #2370. Retired in 1977. Current status unknown.

#1835 Regal Vale to Amtrak #2371. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

One car, P-S, Lot #6833, Plan #4144, 1948, 4DB-4C-2DR:

Ordered in April 1947 and delivered in March 1948.

#1819 Regal House sold in 1969 to W. Silver & Company.

Sources:

1. Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society passenger car roster pages: http://www.atsfrr.com/links/atsf/passenger.htm

2. "Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

3. "Streamliner Cars Volume Three: ACF - Other Builders" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1982)

4. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

5. "Amtrak by the Numbers" by David C. Warner and Elbert Simon (White River Productions, 2011)

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

_________________
Ted Brumberg


Last edited by Rainier Rails on Mon May 12, 2014 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving AT&SF Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 12:46 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1483
Location: Southern California
The Santa Fe Indian series of sleeping cars were built as 24 Duplex Roomette cars. But they were later rebuilt to 11 Double Bedroom cars. This occured in 1964. Details can be found in Tom Madden's Pullman Project database and probably in the recent book on Santa Fe sleeping cars.

_________________
Brian Norden


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving AT&SF Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 12:59 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:34 pm
Posts: 631
Location: Union, IL
A couple more search engine results:

Indian Drum - according to http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,2681814 it was sold to Black-Wong Railcar Leasing and used in filming a 1985 TV movie then scrapped.

Palm Loch - was privately owned, stored in Hamburg NY, cut up for scrap in Feb 2006 according to http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=21428&p=212277

_________________
Frank Hicks
Preserved North American Electric Railway Equipment News
Hicks Car Works


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving AT&SF Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2014 5:55 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Thanks, Brian and Frank, for the info!

For those who track cabooses, the Palm Loch was owned by the same individual as PRR N5 #477220 (9-1918, CR #19190R) which is now in East Aurora, NY.

Geno Dailey photo of the Palm Loch from June 1994: http://www.trainweb.org/amtrakpix/locoshots/heritage106/2754A.jpg

Some interesting notes from the linked Train Orders thread:

SilverPeakRail wrote:
The bedroom floor plan of the Indian cars was unusual and roomy, and is generally regarded as the inspiration for the Suplerliner-I deluxe bedrooms.
SilverPeakRail wrote:
An interesting side note about Santa Fe sleeping car trucks is that the Indians, some Regals, Pines, and a number of the observation cars were re-trucked with outside swing hanger trucks (Pullman class 41-CDO-11) that were removed from baggage and RPO cars delivered in 1953. The inside swing hanger trucks, mostly Pullman class 41-NR-11 were put under the head end cars. So today, most of the Amtrak heritage baggage cars are riding on trucks that came to the Santa Fe 4-years before the cars did.


From another Train Orders thread (http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?11,2694632) (linked to from the first):

ATSF3751 wrote:
Santa Fe continued to carry first class mail, pre-sorted, on passenger trains after the removal of RPO's. This continued into Amtrak. While not the same volume as pre 1968, it still could account for a full carload during heavy times and included both working and sealed mail cars.
john7968 wrote:
It wasn’t first class it was “blue placard” mail, largely parcel post, never the less, good revenue.
DavidP wrote:
Amtrak used the Super Chief name for the primary Chicago - LA train from May 1, 1971 through summer of '73 - also "Chief" for a summer only second Chicago - LA train and Texas Chief for the Chicago - Houston train. The last straw for Santa Fe's licensing of the famous name was reported to be Amtrak's plan to remove the separate first class-only diner from trains 3/4 during the 1973-74 winter season.


Sleepers, Continued:

26 cars, P-S, Lot #6669, Plan #4099, 1942, 6S-6RM-4DB:

Ordered in April 1941 and delivered in June 1942. Sold to AT&SF on 12/31/1945.

Antelope Valley sold in 1968 to W. Silver & Company (Anthony, TX).

Chama Valley sold in 1966 to W. Silver & Company.

Cimarron Valley sold in 1967 to W. Silver & Company.

Blue Valley renamed Citrus Valley (1954) sold in 1967 to W. Silver & Company.

Cottonwood Valley sold in 1967 to W. Silver & Company.

Eagle Nest Valley sold in 1967 to W. Silver & Company.

Taos Valley renamed Estancia Valley (1954) sold in 1967 to El Paso Iron & Metal (Vinton, TX).

Hidden Valley sold in 1967 to El Paso Iron & Metal.

Kaw Valley sold in 1966 to W. Silver & Company.

Mescalero Valley sold in 1968 to W. Silver & Company.

Monument Valley sold in 1968 to W. Silver & Company.

Paradise Valley sold in 1967 to W. Silver & Company.

Pecos Valley sold in 1967 to W. Silver & Company.

Pleasant Valley sold in 1967 to Morre Clebolt-Illini Railroad Club and renamed Chief Illini II, now at Monticello RY Museum.

Red River Valley sold in 1967 to W. Silver & Company.

Red Rock Valley sold in 1967 to El Paso Iron & Metal.

Redondo Valley sold in 1967 to W. Silver & Company.

Rio Grande Valley sold in 1967 to W. Silver & Company.

Salt River Valley sold in 1965 to W. Silver & Company.

San Miguel Valley sold in 1966 to W. Silver & Company.

Sunshine Valley sold in 1967 to W. Silver & Company.

Surprise Valley sold in 1967 to W. Silver & Company.

Sweetwater Valley sold in 1966 to W. Silver & Company.

Tesuque Valley sold in 1967 to W. Silver & Company.

Verde Valley sold in 1969 to Gulf Coast Chapter NRHS-Houston RR Museum.

Whitewater Valley sold in 1968 to W. Silver & Company.

Four cars, P-S, Lot #6757, Plan #4115, 1947, 4DR-1DB-17 seat lounge observation:

Ordered in July 1945 for Super Chief and delivered in November 1947. Rebuilt to blunt end in 1956 to Plan #4115A, seating reduced to 16, and reassigned to San Francisco Chief.

Vista Canyon sold in 1968 to W. O'Dell Cooper (Enid, OK). Sold (when??) to Fred and Dale Springer-Cruising by Rail #800504, located at Arizona Railway Museum since 2001. Was in Seattle last September for the 2013 AAPRCO convention train to Napa, CA.

Vista Cavern sold in 1968 to David Wallace (San Antonio). Current status unknown.

Vista Heights sold in 1968 to W. Silver & Company.

Vista Valley sold in 1968 to W. O'Dell Cooper. Sold (when??) to private ownership #800020 and located on Morristown & Erie.

One car, AC&F, Lot #3360, Plan #9013, 1950, 4DR-1DB-17 seat lounge observation:

Ordered in January 1948 for Super Chief and delivered in November 1950. Rebuilt to blunt end in 1956 to Plan #9013A, seating reduced to 16, and reassigned to San Francisco Chief.

Vista Club sold in 1968 to Newark Panhandle RR and renamed The Kokosing. Sold in 1974 to Amtrak #3270. Retired and sold in 1975 to D.J. Joseph

Six cars, P-S, Lot #6532, Plan #4070, 1938, 4DR-1DB-17 seat lounge observation:

Ordered in February 1937 for Chief and delivered between January and February 1938. Sold to AT&SF on 12/31/1945.

Coconino changed to Plan #4070B in 1947, renamed Vista Plains, and reassigned to Super Chief. Rebuilt to blunt end in 1956 to Plan #4070E, seating increased to 18, and reassigned to San Francisco Chief. Reconfigured in 1962 to 48 seat chair #2798 to Amtrak #4883. Scrapped in 5-1973.

Betahtakin rebuilt to blunt end in 1955 to Plan #4070C, seating increased to 18. Reconfigured in 1960 to 48 seat chair #2812. Sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 78 seat commuter coach #2456, later MTA #2456. Retired in 1976. Current status unknown.

Biltabito rebuilt to blunt end in 1955 to Plan #4070C, seating increased to 18. Reconfigured in 1960 to 48 seat chair #2815. Sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 78 seat commuter coach #2458, later MTA #2458. Current status unknown.

Chaistla rebuilt to blunt end in 1955 to Plan #4070C, seating increased to 18. Reconfigured in 1960 to 48 seat chair #2813. Sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 78 seat commuter coach #2457, later MTA #2457. Retired in 1976. Current status unknown.

Chuska rebuilt to blunt end in 1954 to Plan #4070C, seating increased to 18. Reconfigured in 1960 to 48 seat chair #2814 to Amtrak #4886. Retired in 1981. Current status unknown.

Denehotso rebuilt to blunt end in 1954 to Plan #4070C, seating increased to 18. Donated in 1968 to Steamtown Foundation. Sold (when??) to Bill Fuehring, resold (when??) to Mike Salwitz. To Arizona Railway Museum in 1995.

One car, P-S, Lot #6553, Plan #4070A, 1938, 4DR-1DB-17 seat lounge observation:

Ordered in September 1937 for Super Chief and delivered in July 1938. Sold to AT&SF on 12/31/1945. Rebuilt to blunt end in 1955 to Plan #4070D, seating increased to 18.

Puye sold in 1968 to W. Silver & Company.

Two cars, P-S, Lot #6606, Plan #4072B, 1940, 10RM-5DB:

Ordered in September 1939 and delivered in June 1940. Sold to AT&SF on 12/31/1945.

Cascade Mills scrapped in 1965.

Cascade Shoals scrapped in 1965.

One car, P-S, Lot #6494, Plan #4057, 1936, 8S-2DB-2C:

Ordered in March 1936 and delivered in November 1936. Sold to AT&SF on 12/31/1945.

Forward redesignated dormitory #3473 (1963) scrapped in 1968.

Fourteen cars, P-S, Lot #6532, Plan #4058A, 1937, 8S-2DB-2C:

Ordered in February 1937 for Chief and delivered between December 1937 and January 1938.

Salahkai reconfigured in 1962 to 48 seat coach #2796. Sold in 1971 to PC and converted to 108 seat commuter coach #2443, later NJT #2443. Current status unknown.

Segatoa reconfigured in 1961 to 48 seat coach #2803. Sold in 1971 to PC and converted to 108 seat commuter coach #2448, later NJT #2448. Current status unknown.

Shanto reconfigured in 1962 to 48 seat coach #2794 to Amtrak #4882. Scrapped in 5-1973.

Sinyala was wrecked on 7-3-1944 at Maine, AZ, and was subsequently scrapped on 5-31-1945 at Calumet Yard (Pullman).

Toadlena reconfigured in 1962 to 48 seat coach #2795. Sold in 1972 to PC and converted to 108 seat commuter coach #2442, later NJT #2442. Sold in 1989 to Naparano Iron & Metal and scrapped in 1990.

Tohatchi sold in 1965 to W. Silver & Company.

Tolani sold in 1965 to W. Silver & Company.

Tolchico sold in 1965 to W. Silver & Company.

Tonalea reconfigured in 1962 to 48 seat coach #2797. Sold in 1972 to PC and converted to 108 seat commuter coach #2444, later NJT #2444. Current status unknown.

Toreva reconfigured in 1962 to 48 seat coach #2799. Sold in 1972 to PC and converted to 108 seat commuter coach #2445, later NJT #2445. Current status unknown.

Toroweap sold in 1965 to W. Silver & Company.

Tyende sold in 1965 to W. Silver & Company.

Wupatki reconfigured in 1962 to 48 seat coach #2801. Sold in 1971 to PC and converted to 108 seat commuter coach #2446, later NJT #2446. Current status unknown.

Yampai reconfigured in 1962 to 48 seat coach #2802. Sold in 1971 to PC and converted to 108 seat commuter coach #2447, later NJT #2447. Current status unknown.

Question:

I have read that the Santa Fe had roster numbers for the sleepers listed above, but that these numbers were never applied to the cars while in service. Does anyone have a listing of said numbers??

Sources:

1. Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society passenger car roster pages: http://www.atsfrr.com/links/atsf/passenger.htm

2. "Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

3. "Streamliner Cars Volume Three: ACF - Other Builders" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1982)

4. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

5. "Amtrak by the Numbers" by David C. Warner and Elbert Simon (White River Productions, 2011)

_________________
Additions and corrrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

_________________
Ted Brumberg


Last edited by Rainier Rails on Mon May 12, 2014 8:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving AT&SF Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 2:25 am 
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Posts: 1676
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Sleepers, Continued:

Six cars, P-S, Lot #6532, Plan #4065, 1937, 14S:

Ordered in February 1937 for Chief and delivered between December 1937 and January 1938. Sold to AT&SF on 12/31/1945.

Dinnebito reconfigured in 1959 to 44 seat coach #2950. Sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 78 seat commuter coach #2450, later MTA #2450. Current status unknown.

Ganado reconfigured in 1960 to 44 seat coach #2951. Sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 78 seat commuter coach #2451, later MTA #2451. Current status unknown.

Hakatai reconfigured in 1959 to 44 seat coach #2952. Sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 78 seat commuter coach #2452, later MTA #2452. Wrecked in 1977.

Havasu reconfigured in 1960 to 44 seat coach #2953. Sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 78 seat commuter coach #2453, later MTA #2453. Current status unknown.

Hoskinnini reconfigured in 1960 to 44 seat coach #2954. Sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 78 seat commuter coach #2454, later MTA #2454. Current status unknown.

Hotauta reconfigured in 1959 to 44 seat coach #2955. Sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 78 seat commuter coach #2455, later MTA #2455. Wrecked in 1977.

Seven cars, P-S, Lot #6532, Plan #4068B, 1938, 17RM-1S:

Ordered in February 1937 for Chief and delivered between January and February 1938. Sold to AT&SF on 12/31/1945.

Chaco reconfigured in 1960 to 48 seat chair #2804 to Amtrak #4884. Scrapped in 5-1973.

Chinle reconfigured in 1960 to 48 seat chair #2805. Sold in 1971 to PC and converted to 108 seat commuter coach #2467, later NJT #2467. Current status unknown.

Maito reconfigured in 1960 to 48 seat chair #2806. Sold in 1971 to PC and converted to 108 seat commuter coach #2468, later NJT #2468. Current status unknown.

Otowi reconfigured in 1960 to 48 seat chair #2807. Sold in 1971 to PC and converted to 108 seat commuter coach #2469, later NJT #2469. Current status unknown.

Paria reconfigured in 1960 to 48 seat chair #2810. Sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 76 seat commuter coach #2459, later MTA #2459. Current status unknown.

Tonto reconfigured in 1960 to 48 seat chair #2808 to Amtrak #4885. Scrapped in 5-1973.

Tuba reconfigured in 1960 to 48 seat chair #2809. Sold in 1971 to PC and converted to 108 seat commuter coach #2470, later NJT #2470. Current status unknown.

Seven cars, P-S, Lot #6532, Plan #4069A, 1938, 4DB-4C-2DR:

Ordered in February 1937 for Chief and delivered in January 1938.

Hotevilla sold in 1966 to Intercontinental Steel (Houston).

Hualpai sold in 1967 to El Paso Iron & Metal (Vinton, TX).

Jadito sold in 1967 to El Paso Iron & Metal.

Kaibito redesignated dormitory #3485 (1967) sold in 1968 to Metal Processing Industries (Vinton, TX).

Kayenta redesignated dormitory #3483 (1967) sold in 1968 to Metal Processing Industries.

Kietsiel sold in 1966 to El Paso Iron & Metal.

Klethla sold in 1967 to El Paso Iron & Metal.

Moencopi sold in 1967 to El Paso Iron & Metal.

Mojave sold in 1966 to El Paso Iron & Metal.

Nankoweap sold in 1966 to El Paso Iron & Metal.

Naslini sold in 1967 to El Paso Iron & Metal.

Polacca redesignated dormitory #3484 (1967) sold in 1968 to Metal Processing Industries.

Two cars, P-S, Lot #6553, Plan #4058B, 1938, 8S-2DB-2C:

Ordered in September 1937 for Super Chief and delivered between June and July 1938. Sold to AT&SF on 12/31/1945.

Talwiwi sold in 1965 to W. Silver & Company (Anthony, TX).

Tyuonyi reconfigured in 1962 to 48 seat coach #2800. Sold in 1971 to E.V. "Red" Stadler (Topeka). Current status unknown.

One car, P-S, Lot #6553, Plan #4068F, 1938, 17RM-1S:

Ordered in September 1937 for Super Chief and delivered in July 1938. Sold to AT&SF on 12/31/1945.

Chimayo reconfigured in 1960 to 48 seat coach #2811. Sold in 1972 to PC and converted to 108 seat commuter coach #2449, later NJT #2449. Sold (when??) to Steve Zuiderveen, then to Excursion Trains Incorporated (ETIX) (Galveston). Acquired (when??) by Galveston RR Museum.

Two cars, P-S, Lot #6553, Plan #4069C, 1938, 4DB-4C-2DR:

Ordered in September 1937 for Super Chief and delivered in July 1938. Sold to AT&SF on 12/31/1945.

Tchirege sold in 1966 to El Paso Iron & Metal.

Tsankawi sold in 1966 to El Paso Iron & Metal.

Six cars, P-S, Lot #6597, Plan #4069C, 1939, 4DB-4C-2DR:

Ordered in July 1939 for Super Chief and delivered in December 1939. Sold to AT&SF on 12/31/1945.

Bacobi sold in 1966 to Intercontinental Steel.

Hasta redesignated dormitory #3486 (1967) sold in 1968 to Metal Processing Industries.

Nava redesignated dormitory #3487 (1967) sold in 1968 to El Paso Iron & Metal.

Saydatch sold in 1967 to El Paso Iron & Metal.

Seboyeta redesignated dormitory #3488 (1967) sold in 1968 to Metal Processing Industries.

Tapacipa was wrecked on 4-9-1947 at Otero, NM.

Two cars, Budd, Lot #967, Plan #9517, 1937, 8S-2C-1DR:

Ordered in April 1936 for Super Chief and delivered in April 1937.

Isleta redesignated dormitory #3476 (1957) sold in 1968 to Metal Processing Industries.

Laguna burned on 3-23-1943 at Yucca, AZ.

One car, Budd, Lot #967, Plan #9518, 1937, 2DR-3C-1DB-14 seat lounge observation:

Ordered in April 1936 for Super Chief and delivered in April 1937.

Navajo seating reduced in 1946 to 13, sold in 1957 to Intermountain Chapter NRHS, now at Colorado RR Museum. One of only two AT&SF round end observations not rebuilt to flat or blunt ends; the other being chair smoker observation #3197 from the 1940 El Capitan.

Two cars, Budd, Lot #967, Plan #9519, 1937, 6DB-2C-2DR:

Ordered in April 1936 for Super Chief and delivered in April 1937.

Oraibi redesignated dormitory #3472 (1963) sold in 1968 to Metal Processing Industries.

Taos reconfigured in 1962 to 44 seat coach #2956. Sold in 1970 to PC and converted to 100 seat commuter coach #2425, later NJT #2425. Current status unknown.

Question:

I have read that the Santa Fe had roster numbers for the sleepers listed above, but that these numbers were never applied to the cars while in service. Does anyone have a listing of said numbers??

Sources:

1. Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society passenger car roster pages: http://www.atsfrr.com/links/atsf/passenger.htm

2. "Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

3. "Streamliner Cars Volume Two: The Budd Company" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

4. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

5. "Amtrak by the Numbers" by David C. Warner and Elbert Simon (White River Productions, 2011)

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

_________________
Ted Brumberg


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving AT&SF Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 8:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 1676
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
El Capitan Hi-Levels:

Hi-Levels in Amtrak Service:

70 of the 73 Hi-Levels were converted to head end power (HEP) under contract to Santa Fe at the Topeka Shops in 1980-1981. The #5xx-series transition (or "step-down") chairs were outfitted with dormitory space at that time, and many of the #7xx-series chairs were modified to transition and also had dormitory space added. These cars were supplemented/displaced with the delivery of the Superliner II transition-dorms, and remained in service through 2003.

Amtrak later modified several of the #7xx-series chairs for the Heartland Flyer by removing the large men's and women's lounges on the lower floor and adding ADA-compatible seating. One car was stored in 2004, and the rest were pulled from service in 2007 following safety concerns from the Oklahoma DOT.

Five of the six club lounges were modified in 1995 for service on the Coast Starlight as the "Pacific Parlours" [sic] for first class (sleeping) passengers. The lower-level lounge was replaced with a theatre, and 360-degree parlor seats were added on the upper floor at the opposite end from the bar (the parlor end always faces the sleepers, and the bar end always faces the diner). These five cars were refurbished in 2008 and names were applied at that time.

Two cars, Budd, Lot #9679-129, 1954, 67 seat chair-transition:

Ordered in September 1952 and delivered in July 1954.

#526 to Amtrak #9900. Stored at unknown date and sold in 1993 to Les Kasten-ITAX. Current status unknown.

#527 to Amtrak #9901. Stored at unknown date and sold in 1993 to Les Kasten-ITAX. Current status unknown.

Ten cars, Budd, Lot #9679-166, 1955-56, 68 seat chair-transition:

Ordered in March 1955 and delivered between December 1955 and February 1956.

#528 to Amtrak #9902 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39902 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan-Ben Butterworth. Current status unknown.

#529 to Amtrak #9903 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39903 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to a Dr. Plancey in Los Angeles, later (when??) to Bucol & Associates. Current status unknown.

#530 to Amtrak #9904 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39904 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Bucol & Associates. Current status unknown.

#531 to Amtrak #9905 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39905 (1981). Wrecked in 1-1986 on #14 Coast Starlight at Dupont, WA, and subsequently stored. Sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan-Ben Butterworth. Current status unknown.

#532 to Amtrak #9906 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39906 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Hobo RR. Current status unknown.

#533 to Amtrak #9907 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39907 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Hobo RR. Current status unknown.

#534 to Amtrak #9908 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39908 (1981). Wrecked on 9-22-1993 on #2 Sunset Limited at Big Bayou Canot, AL, and subsequently scrapped.

#535 to Amtrak #9909 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39909 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan-Ben Butterworth. Current status unknown.

#536 to Amtrak #9910 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39910 (1981). Wrecked on 7-7-1985 on #8 Empire Builder at Almira, WA, and subsequently stored. Sold in 1994 to Texas A&M for use during fire training and set ablaze in 1-1994. Body was subsequently scrapped.

#537 to Amtrak #9911 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39911 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to AAR. Current status unknown.

Twelve cars, Budd, Lot #9679-320, 1963-64, 68 seat chair-transition:

Ordered in November 1962 and delivered between December 1963 and February 1964.

#538 to Amtrak #9912 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39912 (1980). Wrecked on 10-9-1986 on #8 Empire Builder at Fall River, WI, and subsequently stored. Sold in 1993 to Les Kasten-ITAX. Current status unknown.

#539 to Amtrak #9913 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39913 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan, later (when??) to Bucol & Associates. Current status unknown.

#540 to Amtrak #9914 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39914 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Dave Hoffman. Current status unknown.

#541 to Amtrak #9915 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39915 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Tom McOwen, later (when??) to Nashville & Eastern. Current status unknown.

#542 to Amtrak #9916 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39916 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan, later (when??) to Bucol & Associates. Current status unknown.

#543 to Amtrak #9917 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39917 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Tom McOwen, later (when??) to Nashville & Eastern. Current status unknown.

#544 to Amtrak #9918 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39918 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to John's Trains (Dallas). Current status unknown.

#545 to Amtrak #9919 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39919 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Pacific RR Society.

#546 to Amtrak #9920 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39920 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan, later (when??) to King Publishing, then (when??) to John's Trains. Current status unknown.

#547 to Amtrak #9921 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39921 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to AAR. Current status unknown.

#548 to Amtrak #9922. Wrecked on 10-2-1979 on #4 Southwest Limited at Lawrence, KS, and subsequently stored. Sold (when??) to Les Kasten-ITAX. Current status unknown.

#549 to Amtrak #9923 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39923 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan. Current status unknown.

Six cars, Budd, Lot #9657-166, 1956, 86 seat club lounge:

Ordered in March 1955 and delivered between May and June 1956. 60 lounge seats with bar and news stand on upper level, 26 lounge seats on lower level.

#575 to Amtrak #9970 to HEP #39970 (1981). Modified in 1995 to Pacific Parlour for Coast Starlight. Refurbished in 2008 and named Columbia Valley. Active.

#576 to Amtrak #9971 to HEP #39971 (1981). Stored in 1999 and sold (when??) to Dave Hoffman. Current status unknown.

#577 to Amtrak #9972 to HEP #39972 (1981). Modified in 1995 to Pacific Parlour for Coast Starlight. Refurbished in 2008 and named Napa Valley. Active.

#578 to Amtrak #9973 to HEP #39973 (1981). Modified in 1995 to Pacific Parlour for Coast Starlight. Refurbished in 2008 and named Santa Lucia Highlands. Active.

#579 to Amtrak #9974 to HEP #39974 (1981). Modified in 1995 to Pacific Parlour for Coast Starlight. Refurbished in 2008 and named Sonoma Valley. Active.

#580 to Amtrak #9975 to HEP #39975 (1981). Modified in 1995 to Pacific Parlour for Coast Starlight. Refurbished in 2008 and named Willamette Valley. Active.

Six cars, Budd, Lot #9668-166, 1956, 80 seat diner:

Ordered in March 1955 and delivered between June and August 1956. Kitchen located on lower level, tables on upper level.

#650 to Amtrak #9980 to HEP #39980 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan. Current status unknown.

#651 to Amtrak #9981 to HEP #39981 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Tom McOwen, later (when??) to Nashville & Eastern. Current status unknown.

#652 to Amtrak #9982 to HEP #39982 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Don Williams (Atlanta). Current status unknown.

#653 to Amtrak #9983 to HEP #39983 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan. Current status unknown.

#654 to Amtrak #9984 to HEP #39984 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to John's Trains. Current status unknown.

#655 to Amtrak #9985 to HEP #39985 (1981). Retired and sold (when??) to Ben Butterworth. Current status unknown.

25 cars, Budd, Lot #9670-166, 1956, 72 seat chair:

Ordered in March 1955 and delivered between January and April 1956.

#700 to Amtrak #9940 to HEP #39940 (1981). Later modified for Heartland Flyer. Stored in 2007. Current status unknown.

#701 to Amtrak #9941 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39900 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan-Ben Butterworth. Current status unknown.

#702 to Amtrak #9942 to HEP #39942 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Dave Hoffman. Current status unknown.

#703 to Amtrak #9943 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39901 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to John's Trains. Current status unknown.

#704 to Amtrak #9944 to HEP #39944 (1981). Damaged by fire on 3-1-2003 on #59 City of New Orleans in New Orleans coach yard. Sold (when??) to Pete Messina, later (when??) to Ben Butterworth. Current status unknown.

#705 to Amtrak #9945 to HEP #39945 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Tom McOwen, later (when??) to Nashville & Eastern. Current status unknown.

#706 to Amtrak #9946 to HEP #39946 (1980). Retired and sold in 2000 to Les Kasten-ITAX. Current status unknown.

#707 to Amtrak #9947 to HEP #39947 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to John's Trains. Current status unknown.

#708 to Amtrak #9948 to HEP #39948 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Tom McOwen, later (when??) to Nashville & Eastern. Current status unknown.

#709 to Amtrak #9949 to HEP #39949 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to John's Trains. Current status unknown.

#710 to Amtrak #9950 to HEP #39950 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan-Ben Butterworth. Current status unknown.

#711 to Amtrak #9951 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39937 (1981). Wrecked on 3-15-1984 on #7 Empire Builder at Bainville, MT, and subsequently scrapped.

#712 to Amtrak #9952 to HEP #39952 (1981). Later modified for Heartland Flyer. Stored in 2007. Current status unknown.

#713 to Amtrak #9953 to HEP #39953 (1981). Later modified for Heartland Flyer. Stored in 2004. Current status unknown.

#714 to Amtrak #9954 to HEP #39954 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan. Current status unknown.

#715 to Amtrak #9955 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39938 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Dave Hoffman. Current status unknown.

#716 to Amtrak #9956 to HEP #39956 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan, later (when??) to Bucol & Associates. Current status unknown.

#717 to Amtrak #9957 to HEP #39957 (1981). Later modified for Heartland Flyer. Stored in 2007. Current status unknown.

#718 to Amtrak #9958 to HEP #39958 (1980). Retired and sold in 2000 to Les Kasten-ITAX. Current status unknown.

#719 to Amtrak #9959 to HEP #39959 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan. Current status unknown.

#720 to Amtrak #9960 to HEP #39960 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Tom McOwen, later (when??) to Nashville & Eastern. Current status unknown.

#721 to Amtrak #9961 to HEP #39961 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan, later (when??) to Bucol & Associates. Current status unknown.

#722 to Amtrak #9962 to HEP #39962 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan-Ben Butterworth. Current status unknown.

#723 to Amtrak #9963 to HEP #39963 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to John's Trains. Current status unknown.

#724 to Amtrak #9964 to HEP #39964 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan, later (when??) to Bucol & Associates. Current status unknown.

Twelve cars, Budd, Lot #9670-320, 1964, 72 seat chair:

Ordered in November 1962 and delivered between February and April 1964. These cars were built with the option for eventual modification to transition-chairs.

#725 to Amtrak #9925 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39925 (1981). Derailed on 10-9-1995 on #1 Sunset Limited at Hyder, AZ, and subsequently scrapped in 1-2003.

#726 to Amtrak #9926 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39926 (1981). Wrecked in 4-1985 on California Zephyr at Granby, CO, and subsequently stored. Sold in 2003 to Dave Hoffman. Current status unknown.

#727 to Amtrak #9927 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39927 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan-Ben Butterworth. Current status unknown.

#728 to Amtrak #9928 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39928 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan-Ben Butterworth. Current status unknown.

#729 to Amtrak #9929 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39929 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Bucol & Associates. Current status unknown.

#730 to Amtrak #9930 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39930 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan, later (when??) to Bucol & Associates. Current status unknown.

#731 to Amtrak #9931 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39931 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan, later (when??) to King Publishing, then (when??) to Jim Stephenson (Houston). Current status unknown.

#732 to Amtrak #9932 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39932 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan-Ben Butterworth. Current status unknown.

#733 to Amtrak #9933 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39933 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Jim Evenson-Heritage Rail (Chicago). Current status unknown.

#734 to Amtrak #9934 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39934 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to John's Trains. Current status unknown.

#735 to Amtrak #9935 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39935 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan, later (when??) to MRLX #800857 and named Mesa Verde.

#736 to Amtrak #9936 to HEP transition-coach-dormitory #39936 (1981). Retired and sold in 2003 to Philip Sheridan. Current status unknown.

Sources:

1. Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society passenger car roster pages: http://www.atsfrr.com/links/atsf/passenger.htm

2. "Streamliner Cars Volume Two: The Budd Company" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

3. Phil Dohmen's Hi-Level page: http://www.trainweb.org/web_lurker/hllounge/

4. "Amtrak by the Numbers" by David C. Warner and Elbert Simon (White River Productions, 2011)

_________________
Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

_________________
Ted Brumberg


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving AT&SF Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 9:31 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:30 am
Posts: 7
Vista Cavern was owned by the Michigan Star Clipper Dinner Train. They purchased the car from Les Kasten in the early 90's. It was listed with the rest of the equipment on Ozark Mountain when the operation ended.

B. Allan


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