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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:06 pm 
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Thanks, Al, for the info on Chickopee Falls!

CR #20 is now owned by the North Shore Railroad as NSHR #1954, named Spirit of Sunbury, painted in PRR Tuscan Red, and used on the Nittany & Bald Eagle RR in Lock Haven, PA.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:53 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
Posts: 343
Location: Morganton, N.C.
Quote:
The Chicopee Falls, as far as I know, became the test car for NYC...PC....CR.


Great catch on Chickopee Falls... will have to correct the listings for CR 20 on the Index. Appreciate it!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:55 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:56 pm
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Thanks for the information. I am really glad that it wound up there. They had a lot of work to do to return the last state room into something other than a generator room. There was aslo a huge hole in the floor under the raised platform in the lounde end. It sometimes got so cold in there that we had the electric heaters on full blast and we had on heavy clothing. All on the middle of the night running through the Berkshires from Selkirk to Framingham for 42 round trips with the same 18 hoppers of stone, the CR20, the 6703, and a caboose. All of this was to prove that Willy Vogel flange lubricators saved 5% fuel but did not replace wayside lubricators.

The NEBR is a different story. After I left the engineering department and joined Unit Train (formerly Coal, Coke, Iron Ore and Stone (aggregates). I became the planning manager and was also the group's rep on the Route Structure Task Force. I cooed up a deal with a certain "Roy" and he want back to a certain "Jeff and Richard" and soon Conrail had traded the Williamsport Cluster for the trackage rights on a reconstructed NBER. It would cost CR nothing except some high trackage right charges. We were not even obligated to run one train. The idea was that we could save 2 crews round trip from the MON to Strawberry Ridge Power Plant with unit trains of coal. We did not have to go through Rockville anymore. I was also tasked to budget for all of the train crews for my group so this represented a huge savings. The NBER fixed it up and aftre NS got ahold of our railroad, they re-negotiated the trackage rights. The initial fees were intended to offset the re-building on a pay as you go scheme.

As much as anyone says anything bad about Conrail, we were very much industry leaders with innovation. Decades ahead of the groups that bought us. It was a fun place to work.

Al Drummond


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:31 am 
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Does anyone know which numbers the Chickopee Falls carried as a test car under NYC and PC ownership??

Part One: Prewar Lightweights, Continued:

Sleepers, Continued:

4 Cars, P-S, Lot #6547, Plan #4079, 1938, NYC Lot #2215:

Ordered in July 1937, delivered and placed in service in May 1938 as 1DR-1DB-32 seat buffet lounge observation. Sold to NYC on 12/31/1945. Reconfigured in 1946 to 4DB-28 seat buffet lounge observation (Plan #4079A).

#10640 Bedloes Island retired in 1957 used as tower at Beech Grove (1960). Current status unknown.

#10641 Manhattan Island retired in 1957 sold in 1958 to NdeM #359 Cuitzeo renamed in 1960 to Club Maltrata, later renamed to Yucalpeten. Current status unknown.

#10642* Thousand Islands retired and sold in 1957 to NdeM #361 Amacuzac renamed in 1960 to Club Metlac. Current status unknown.

*Randall lists this car as #10642, and Link lists this car as #10643.

#10643* Pelee Island sold in 1957 to Jones Tool & Die Company, later used as tower at Beech Grove. Current status unknown.

*Randall lists this car as #10643, and Link lists this car as #10642.

3 Cars, P-S, Lot #6567, Plan #4082, 1939, NYC Lot #2217:

Ordered in October 1938, delivered and placed in service in July 1939. 2DB-1C-1DR-27 seat buffet lounge observation. Sold to NYC on 12/31/1945. Sold to B&O in 1956.

#10650 Genessee River to B&O #7510 sold in 1966 to B&O Museum. Current status unknown.

#10651 Maumee River to B&O #7511 sold in 1968 to private ownership (Lamoille, VT). Current status unknown.

#10652 Wabash River to B&O #7512 wrecked at Toll Gate, WV, in 1967.

Lounge & Parlor Cars:

4 Cars, P-S, Lot #6546, Plan #4076, 1938, NYC Lot #2214:

Ordered in July 1937, delivered and placed in service in May 1938. 28 seat buffet (club) lounge barber shop dormitory. Sold to NYC on 12/31/1945.

#10660 Century Club planned to be renumbered in 1958 to #10700 (not applied) retired in 1958 and sold in 1959 to Speno RR Ballast Cleaning. Current status unknown.

#10661 Century Inn sold in 1955 to Sperry Rail Service. Current status unknown.

#10662 Century Lounge planned to be renumbered in 1958 to #10701 (not applied) retired in 1958 and scrapped in 1960.

#10663 Century Tavern planned to be renumbered in 1958 to #10702 (not applied) retired in 1958 and scrapped in 1960.

Sources:

1. "Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

2. Terry Link's NYC passenger car roster pages: http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-PASS.htm

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Pictures located via Jerry LaBoda's photo links website: http://passcarphotos.info/

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:23 am 
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Part One: Prewar Lightweights, Continued:

Lounge & Parlor Cars, Continued:

2 Cars, Budd, Lot #96208, 1941, NYC Lot #2144:

Ordered in January 1941 for Empire State Express and delivered in November 1941. 47 seat club lounge baggage. Numbers applied in 1952.

#33 Grover Cleveland retired in 1961 sold in 1963?? to Jones Properties sold in 1963 to NdeM. Current status unknown.

#34 Martin Van Buren retired in 1961 sold in 1963?? to Jones Properties sold in 1963 to NdeM. Current status unknown.

6 Cars, Budd, Lot #96207, 1941, NYC Lot #2145:

Ordered in January 1941 and delivered in November 1941. 30 seat parlor-1DR. Numbers applied in 1952.

#81 Charles E. Hughes retired in 1961 sold in 1963?? to Jones Properties sold in 1963 to SCD. Current status unknown.

#82 Herbert H. Lehman to PC #7123 to Amtrak #3600 (1971) reconfigured in 1973 to 56 seat coach #5698 retired and sold in 1976 to Tuman Demolition.

#83 Nathan L. Miller retired in 1961 sold in 1963?? to Jones Properties sold in 1963 to SCD. Current status unknown.

#84 Levi P. Morton to PC #7124 to Amtrak #3601 (1971) reconfigured in 1973 to 56 seat coach #5699 retired (when??) and sold in 1985 to unknown party. Current status unknown.

#85 Alfred E. Smith retired in 1961 sold in 1963?? to Jones Properties sold in 1963 to SCD. Current status unknown.

#86 Samuel J. Tilden sold in 1963 to Jones Properties and renamed Kristina sold in 1967 to LIRR and reconfigured to 24 seat commuter club #530 scrapped in 1974.

2 Cars, Budd, Lot #96205, 1941, NYC Lot #2148:

Ordered in January 1941 for Empire State Express and delivered in November 1941. 53 seat club lounge observation with writing desk. Numbers applied in 1952.

#54* Theodore Roosevelt sold in 1958 to Jones Properties sold to NdeM. Current status unknown.

*Randall lists this car as #54, and Link lists this car as #55.

#55* Franklin D. Roosevelt sold in 1958 to Jones Properties sold to NdeM. Current status unknown.

*Randall lists this car as #55, and Link lists this car as #54.

Sources:

1. "Streamliner Cars Volume Two: The Budd Company" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

2. Terry Link's NYC passenger car roster pages: http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-PASS.htm

3. Pictures located via Jerry LaBoda's photo links website: http://passcarphotos.info/

4. Mike Palmieri's Amtrak rosters

5. "Amtrak by the Numbers" by David C. Warner and Elbert Simon (White River Productions, 2011)

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 8:56 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
Posts: 343
Location: Morganton, N.C.
Quote:
Does anyone know which numbers the Chickopee Falls carried as a test car under NYC and PC ownership??


Not sure that the car was converted to a Mobile Lab (as Conrail described the car in the CR diagrams book) before it became CR. It doesn't show up in the Railway Passenger Car Annuals until 1980. Does anyone have any ideas as to the Maintenance of Way number the car carried???

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:53 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8358
Location: Baltimore, MD
Rainier Rails wrote:
Thanks, Al, for the info on Chickopee Falls!

CR #20 is now owned by the North Shore Railroad as NSHR #1954, named Spirit of Sunbury, painted in PRR Tuscan Red, and used on the Nittany & Bald Eagle RR in Lock Haven, PA.


Here she is behind the locomotive on a public excursion on the Shamokin Valley RR (a North Shore/NBER affiliate) in May 2012. (Yes, where double PRR I1sa's used to pound on each end of the ore trains to Mount Carmel.)

I should advise that the trainset in question, including "Spirit of Sunbury," may be stored on the North Shore/NBER--maybe--but is actually owned by a former NSHR official (and avid private preservationist) who reportedly parted ways on not the best of terms with the company. The former "Robey Empire" has had to come to some negotiated terms with him to continue using the trainset after one abrupt cancellation of a public outing, but has since sought out its own cars as well, acquiring two former Ontario Midland cars and refitting a bay-window caboose into a "business car," and borrowing another privately-owned Lackawanna business heavyweight on very rare occasions.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:23 pm 
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Thanks, ADM IV, for the info and photo!

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:53 pm
Posts: 130
Quote:
#10650 Genessee River to B&O #7510 sold in 1966 to B&O Museum. Current status unknown.


Travel by Pullman (Welsh / Howes, MBI Publishing) describes this car as destroyed by vandals, several years after the 1966 transfer to the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore. The book includes a very nice photo of the car in B&O livery. They also show the spelling as Genesee River (one 's'), which would be correct for the river in Western New York.

JR


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:20 pm 

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Recent photograph ( May 2014 ) of Maumee River down in Plymouth Florida


Dean Levin


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:35 pm 
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Thanks, John, for the info on Genesee River!

Thanks, Dean, for the info and photos of Maumee River!

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:03 pm 
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Part One: Prewar Lightweights, Continued:

Coaches:

2 Cars, Budd, Lot #96201, 1938, NYC Lot #2132:

Ordered in November 1937 for James Whitcomb Riley and delivered in May 1938. 52 seat coach.

#2560 scrapped in 1965.

#2561 scrapped in 1965.

1 Car, Budd, Lot #96202, 1939, NYC Lot #2133:

Ordered in March 1939 for James Whitcomb Riley and delivered in December 1939. 60 seat coach.

#2562 sold in 1965 to Livonia, Avon & Lakeville. Current status unknown.

1 Car, Budd, Lot #96203, 1941, NYC Lot #2134:

Ordered in April 1940 for James Whitcomb Riley and delivered in January 1941. 60 seat coach.

#2563 scrapped in 1965.

16 Cars, Budd, Lot #96204, 1941, NYC Lot #2147:

Ordered in January 1941 and delivered in November 1941. 56 seat coach. Numbers applied to named cars in 1952. #2565-#2579 converted in 1966 to 108 seat commuter coaches (Lot #2264).

#2564 named Thomas E. Dewey in 1954 sold in 1965* to Livonia, Avon & Lakeville. Current status unknown.

*Randall lists the sale date as 1965, and Link lists the sale date as 1967.

#2565 to #1712 to PC #2112 to CR #2112 to Metro-North (MNCR) #2112 (1983??). Retired in 1985?? Current status unknown.

#2566 to #1703 to PC #2103 to CR #2103 to MNCR #2103 (1983??). Retired in 1985?? and sold in 1987?? to Rochester Chapter NRHS-Rochester & Genesee Valley RR Museum as Empire State Railcar (ESRX) #2566 and named Richard Tickner (West Henrietta, NY).

#2567 to #1711 to PC #2111 to CR #2111 to MNCR #2111 (1983??). Retired in 1985?? and sold in 1987?? to Rochester Chapter as ESRX #2567.

#2568 to #1700 to PC #2100 to CR #2100 to MNCR #2100 (1983??). Retired in 1985?? and sold in 1987?? to Rochester Chapter as ESRX #2568.

#2569 to #1706 to PC #2106 to CR #2106 to MNCR #2106 (1983??). Retired in 1985?? Current status unknown.

#2570 Reuben E. Fenton to #1710 to PC #2110 to CR #2110 to MNCR #2110 (1983??). Retired in 1985?? Current status unknown.

#2571 Hamilton Fish to #1705 to PC #2105 to CR #2105 to MNCR #2105 (1983??). Retired in 1985?? and sold in 1987?? to Rochester Chapter as ESRX #2571.

#2572 David B. Hill to #1707 to PC #2107 to CR #2107 to MNCR #2107 (1983??). Retired in 1985?? and sold in 1987?? to Rochester Chapter as ESRX #2572.

#2573 Morgan Lewis to #1702 to PC #2102 to CR #2102 to MNCR #2102 (1983??). Retired in 1985?? Current status unknown.

#2574 William L. Marcy to #1713 to PC #2113 to CR #2113 to MNCR #2113 (1983??). Retired in 1985?? Current status unknown.

#2575 Edwin D. Morgan to #1704 to PC #2104 to CR #2104 to MNCR #2104 (1983??). Retired in 1985?? Current status unknown.

#2576 William H. Seward to #1708 to PC #2108 to CR #2108 to MNCR #2108 (1983??). Retired in 1985?? Current status unknown.

#2577 Daniel D. Tompkins to #1709 to PC #2109 to CR #2109 to MNCR #2109 (1983??). Retired in 1985?? and sold in 1987?? to Rochester Chapter as ESRX #1709.

#2578 Charles S. Whitman to #1701 to PC #2101 to CR #2101 to MNCR #2101 (1983??). Retired in 1985?? and sold in 1987?? to Rochester Chapter as ESRX #2578.

#2579 Silas Wright to #1714 to PC #2114 to CR #2114 to MNCR #2114 (1983??). Retired in 1985?? Current status unknown.

Sources:

1. "Streamliner Cars Volume Two: The Budd Company" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

2. Terry Link's NYC passenger car roster pages: http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-PASS.htm

3. Pictures located via Jerry LaBoda's photo links website: http://passcarphotos.info/

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:18 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
Posts: 343
Location: Morganton, N.C.
Quote:
1 Car, Budd, Lot #96202, 1939, NYC Lot #2133:

Ordered in March 1939 for James Whitcomb Riley and delivered in December 1939. 60 seat coach.

#2562 sold in 1965 to Livonia, Avon & Lakeville. Current status unknown.


Supposedly sold to the Gettysburg... from there who knows...

http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1802714

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:12 am 
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Thanks, Jerry, for the info!

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:33 am 

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Location: Thomaston & White Plains
#2570 Reuben E. Fenton to #1710 to PC #2110 to CR #2110 to MNCR #2110 (1983??). Retired in 1985?? Current status unknown.

This one was rebuilt about 1990 by Precision National (along with two others, don't know the numbers right now) for MNCR's Stamford Wire Train. 2110 became a tool and parts car, another one became a crew rider/locker room/office/lunchroom car (that one went to CNZR in E. Windsor, CT via CDOT Rail). Don't recall the layout of car #3. Retired about 2009 and replaced by hi-rail tower trucks, the car was donated by CDOT Rail to RMNE. Here's the car, in Nov. 2013 during inspection at East Bridgeport Yard:

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File comment: Metro-North W-10 wire train tool & parts car, E. Bridgeport, Nov 2013
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And just after delivery to RMNE at Waterbury, March 2014:

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File comment: Metro-North W-10 wire train tool & parts car, at Seidel crossing, Waterville, March 2014
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When PNC did the conversion, the windows were blanked out with plain steel sheets, a "baggage" door added to each side, and the vestibule and steps were retained, making entry and exit much easier.

Graffiti has been removed and car is looking better! The attached blue car on the right in second photo is a wire train flat, with full-length elevating tower platform--- great for lineside tree cutting!

Howard P.

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