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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 1:30 am 
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Thanks, Tim, for the info on the Norman W. Kittson and the Moon Brook Club!

That being the case, we have:

110. Norman W. Kittson (Lot #6249, Plan #3990, 1929, barber-buf-sol-lng-obs, SOU)--sold to SOU (1945) and converted to business car #4 (1947) renumbered to #15 (1st) (1953) leased to Auto Train (1972) sold to Arthur Boone #4 and named Boonesborough (#800026), located on Austin Steam Train-Austin & Texas Central (Burnet, TX)

328. Moon Brook Club (Lot #4531, Plan #4025T, 1918/32, 8S-buf-sol-lng-obs, ex-Elmbank)--sold to SOU #2510 (1948) converted to coach #1044 (1955) converted to executive sleeper #15 Alabama (2nd) (1979) to NS #9 Alabama (#800769)

Sources:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 2:38 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
Posts: 341
Location: Morganton, N.C.
Quote:
Isn't Southern Railway office car lineage "fun"?


Aaaaah...

The only piece I found that I was lacking in my digging was the SOU 15 ALABAMA and which car it was rebuilt from but now I have it (sure wish I had those additional sheets) so I believe that I have everything I need now to fix the info I have on the cars.

Quote:
"fun"?


Southern is a difficult road to deal with if you don't have all of the programs for the different eras... a large number of business cars were renumbered, some more than once, after they were rebuilt or modernized and it was really a confusing thing sometimes. Add to it numbers that were being reused... it can become more than just muddied water or a polluted stream.

I do appreciate the added info that Tim was able to provide since this will help me to get all the pieces into their proper order, and especially so for providing info on the SOU VIRGINIA and CAROLINA, which I did know recieved the numbers but did not know when and because of it I sort of had to endure more than a fair share of chiding for including them. Knowing now when the numbers were applied does help in a number of ways.

Hopefully by the time most people get up on Monday morning I will have the Southern and Norfolk Southern info in place... definitely something I will be glad of!!!

Oh, about BOONESBOROUGH, I wonder if he did add the number to it. The one link to the car that I know of shows something letter or number wise towards the "B" end of the car but because of the quality of the picture it is difficult to make out. It appears to be too large to be just one or two numbers but there isn't a lot on this car, at least as far as what I have found... maybe someone else might yet have shots of the car that will show if it is a number or some other marking.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 3:40 am 

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Location: Morganton, N.C.
Quote:
On the NS diagram dated 12/85 the all bedroom sleeper NS 9 is former Sou 15. It references Sou SP-40061 which shows that the car Alabama was created from Modernized Coach 1044 at Hayne 10-15-79 and that Coach 1044 was converted from the Pullman "Moon Brooke Club" at Hayne 4-15-55.


This should be MOON BROOK CLUBl.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:44 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:04 am
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I used "Moon Brooke" because that is what the Sou diagram showed. Frankly the ddraftsman in the mechanical department were not historians and misspellings are common.

Jerry is right about Southern Railway office cars. Renumberings were common as cars were reassigned or if a car user was promoted he took his car with him but got a lower number for his car to go with his higher rank.

Of the sixty or so "official cars" in my list there are a number of cars where the history is missing. "offical cars" include other cars such as the exhibit and safety cars. There were at least two in the group of office cars built in the 1940s for which there is no origin, yet we know they were built from Pullman cars. One is now known as the "Susan (or is it Sue?-I don't have my data here at the office) Marie" which was sold by the Southern to Charter Wire and is now at IRM.

Is there a list of all the Pullman sleepers sold to Southern? It would be helpful in cross referencing the surviving cars whether they were rebuilt, donated or scrapped.

Tim Andrews
Chattanooga

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:59 am 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
Posts: 341
Location: Morganton, N.C.
Quote:
Is there a list of all the Pullman sleepers sold to Southern? It would be helpful in cross referencing the surviving cars whether they were rebuilt, donated or scrapped.


Mike Palmieri compiled a list from Tom Madden's Pullman Car Construction Records. It is posted on the Southern Modeler list...

http://southernmodeler.info/PrototypeInfo/Southern_HW.xls

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:39 am 

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Tim Andrews wrote:
One is now known as the "Susan (or is it Sue?-I don't have my data here at the office) Marie" which was sold by the Southern to Charter Wire and is now at IRM.


Susan Marie's IRM online roster page: http://www.irm.org/cgi-bin/rsearch.cgi? ... Railway=10

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 7:04 pm 
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Tim Andrews wrote:
One is now known as the "Susan Marie" which was sold by the Southern to Charter Wire and is now at IRM.


329. Susan Marie

Jerry LaBoda and Stan Garner both list the Susan Marie as SOU #8 to #5 to #10 to private ownership #10 (#800277) to IRM.

Garner lists the name Susan Marie as applied to the #10 under the third private owner, most likely Charter Wire (see below).

Garner lists the SOU #8 as converted from a 12S-1DR sleeper, built in 1928.

Looking at the CCR database, SOU did not acquire any Plan #3410 sleepers built in 1928!

Hmm...

Looking at the IRM photo gallery for the Susan Marie, there is a copy of a letter dated October 17, 1979.

Page One of Letter: http://www.irm.org/cgi-bin/image.pl?conf=img800&img=/gallery/albums/SOU10/aag.jpg (click once to enlarge)

Page Two of Letter: http://www.irm.org/cgi-bin/image.pl?conf=img800&img=/gallery/albums/SOU10/aah.jpg (click once to enlarge)

Letter is included below, copied verbatim:

Southern Railway System Engineering Department wrote:
Mr. Carl M. Michaelsen, President
ODN Tool & Manufacturing Company, Inc.

Dear Mr. Michaelsen:

The office car you now own was sold as Car 10 on February 1, 1975 to Allis-Chalmers. This car was built from one of several all-steel Pullman cars purchased by Southern in the middle 1940's. Our records do not show the car number or name which this car was converted. The car was made into an Office Car by our former Chattanooga Passenger Car Shop on July 14, 1948. This Shop has been torn down, and we have incomplete records of this shop.

This Pullman car was stripped inside, and all underneath equipment removed. The car was sandblasted; and the undercar framing, center sill, side sills, body bolsters, and crossbearers completely cleaned, repaired and undercoated. The car was converted into an Office Car as shown on diagram 34-F-72 attached. New ice air conditioning, new interior with glass insulation, and new turtle back roof were installed. It was completed at Chattanooga, Tennessee, July 14, 1948, and numbered Car 8. It was assigned to Mr. D. W. Brosnan, General Manager Centeral Lines [sic]. On January 1, 1952, it was assigned to Mr. W. H. Oglesby, General Manager Centeral Lines [sic]. On August 1, 1962, it was assigned to Mr. K. C. Shults, Assistant Vice President-Transportation. On July 1, 1962, the car was assigned to Mr. R. S. Hamilton, Vice President-Marketing & Planning. On May 1, 1970, this car was shared by Mr. R. S. Hamilton and Mr. G. S. Paul; both were Vice Presidents. In October 1970, the car was renumbered Car 5 and assigned to Mr. R. S. Hamilton, Ex-Vice President-Marketing and Sales; and Mr. G. S. Paul, Ex-Vice President-Administration. The car was used as a pool car for executive officers from February 8, 1972 to August 10, 1972. It was then renumbered Car 10 and assigned to Mr. A. M. Cary, Assistant Vice President-Maintenance of Way, until July 19, 1973. The car was then offered for sale and sold February 1, 1975.

In 1956, the ice air conditioning system 32 volt car was changed to 110 volt electro-mechanical air conditioning system with zoned steam heat and battery and standby electric heat, with 35 KW genemotor battery system. The old 5½"x10" friction bearing trucks were replaced in 1963 with new General Steel Industries cast steel, six-wheel, inside side bearing, outside swing hanger type passenger car trucks with Hyatt 5½"x10" oil type roller bearings.

When sold, the outside swing hanger roller bearing trucks were removed: and spare six-wheel Pullman type 2410 trucks were installed with 5½"x10" friction bearings.

C. F. Harvey


So it would appear that Allis-Chalmers sold the #10 to ODN Tool & Manufacturing, which in turn sold the #10 to Charter Wire.

Checking Jerry's website, found two pictures of the #10:

#10 as owned by SOU: http://rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=683539 (Robert Olsesski/Brent MacGregor Collection, Jerry LaBoda Collection) (note the GSI trucks)

#10 in Amtrak Phase I in Chicago (anyone know which station this is?): http://www.pjv101.net/film_bw/bw08/1433_110.jpg (Peter J. Vincent photo) (click once to enlarge) (note the bolted pedestal 2410 trucks)

Sources:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

2. Jerry LaBoda's photo links website: http://passcarphotos.info/

3. Stan Garner's #800xxx-series car listings: http://www.movie-trains.com/pvlist.html

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 9:03 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
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Location: Morganton, N.C.
Actually I was in the midst of finishing my edit of the listing for SOU 10 but had to step away from it before I was able to post the revision. The letter, mentioning that its history prior to becoming a Southern car was unknown, is now reflected.

Quote:
So it would appear that Allis-Chalmers sold the #10 to ODN Tool & Manufacturing, which in turn sold the #10 to Charter Wire.


I am not sure that it was ever owned by Charter. They did have a pair of cars that were in use back in the 70's, ex-SP 9113, which was named GOLDEN MOON and ex-CNW IMPERIAL LEAF, both in NYC TTG with AMTK stripes... is there some reference I am missing about SOU 10 becoming Charter Wire?

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Last edited by jmlaboda on Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 10:11 pm 
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jmlaboda wrote:
Is there some reference I am missing about SOU 10 becoming Charter Wire?


Tim mentioned this in his post from earlier today, fourth down on this page.

Tim Andrews wrote:
Of the sixty or so "official cars" in my list there are a number of cars where the history is missing. "offical cars" include other cars such as the exhibit and safety cars. There were at least two in the group of office cars built in the 1940s for which there is no origin, yet we know they were built from Pullman cars. One is now known as the "Susan (or is it Sue?-I don't have my data here at the office) Marie" which was sold by the Southern to Charter Wire and is now at IRM.


Southern Railway System Engineering Department wrote:
The office car you now own was sold as Car 10 on February 1, 1975 to Allis-Chalmers.


Rainier Rails wrote:
So it would appear that Allis-Chalmers sold the #10 to ODN Tool & Manufacturing, which in turn sold the #10 to Charter Wire.


Or perhaps Allis-Chalmers sold the #10 to Charter Wire, which in turn sold the car to ODN.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 11:13 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
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Location: Morganton, N.C.
Quote:
Tim mentioned this in his post from earlier today, fourth down on this page.


That still doesn't answer my question. Is there somewhere where the car is shown as being owned by Charter Wire? What is the source for this information? As has already been shown there are some errors in who acquired some cars so I do not think it is unreasonable to want to ask where the idea of Charter buying this car originated.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:56 pm 

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Rainier Rails wrote:
#10 in Amtrak Phase I in Chicago (anyone know which station this is?)


LaSalle Street Station.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 3:59 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:04 am
Posts: 82
I connected Charter Wire with the Susan Marie based on a note on my Southern Railway database which was created in Dbase and only survives in a three inch thick computer dot matrix print out. As Jerry has mentioned, sometimes the information is not correct. I have a list of office cars that someone put together and gave to the Southern which I found in a file at Hayne shop, it shows a number of cars going to Ringling Brothers when in fact they all went to the Judge in Houston.

There was an article in Private Varnish a long time ago about the Susan Marie and that might also have information regarding the car. I don't know if I can find it or not.

I did scan over the list of Southern HW sleepers on the modeler's website and think there are some that may not have been mentioned in this thread. Has anyone tried to make a list from this thread rather than having to go back and read each posting? It would make it easier to cross reference the info.

Tim Andrews

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 5:48 am 
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Rainier Rails wrote:
#10 in Amtrak Phase I in Chicago (anyone know which station this is?)
Frank Hicks wrote:
LaSalle Street Station.

Thanks, Frank, for identifying the station!

Tim Andrews wrote:
I connected Charter Wire with the Susan Marie based on a note on my Southern Railway database which was created in Dbase and only survives in a three inch thick computer dot matrix print out. As Jerry has mentioned, sometimes the information is not correct.

Thanks, Tim, for the clarification!

Tim Andrews wrote:
I have a list of office cars that someone put together and gave to the Southern which I found in a file at Hayne shop, it shows a number of cars going to Ringling Brothers when in fact they all went to the Judge in Houston.

Is there an accessible copy of this list of office cars that were acquired by Judge Roy Hofheinz?

Tim Andrews wrote:
I did scan over the list of Southern HW sleepers on the modeler's website and think there are some that may not have been mentioned in this thread. Has anyone tried to make a list from this thread rather than having to go back and read each posting? It would make it easier to cross reference the info.

275. 12S-1DR Benburb (Lot #4574, Plan #2410F, 1920) converted in 1942 to TC #2438 sold in 1947 to SOU and converted to baggage-express #582 to SERM

164. 12S-1DR Kermess (Lot #4525, Plan #2410F, 1917) converted in 1938 to TC #2227 sold in 1947 to SOU and converted in 1948 to baggage #598 to TVRM

163. SOU 10S-1DR-2C #2402 Hazen (Lot #3942, Plan #2585E, 1911) converted in 1954 to coach #1037 to TVRM

219. SOU 10S-1DR-2C #2404 Lake Ainslie (Lot #4728, Plan #3585, 1924) to Heart of Dixie

114. SOU 10S-1DR-2C #2407 Lake Childs (Lot #4996, Plan #3585A, 1926) converted in 1967 to exhibition-baggage #24 to NS #27 (#800779)

124. SOU 10S-1DR-2C #2420 Lake Moreau (Lot #4725, Plan #3585, 1923) to TVRM to RY Museum of Greater Cincinnati

39. SOU 10S-1DR-2C #2422 Lake Pearl (Lot #4725, Plan #3585, 1923) to NS to VMT (1986)

278. SOU 10S-2DR #2429 Francois Xavier Martin (Lot #6284, Plan #3584B, 1929) converted in 1955 to coach #1040 renumbered to #1039 to MofW #960423 (1980) sold in 1996 to Chuck Jensen to MALX to East Tennessee Rail Car Services

84. SOU 10S-2DR #2433 Point Richards (Lot #4961, Plan #3584A, 1926) converted in 1952 to steam generator #BC2 renumbered to #960605 to NS #26 to New Georgia #1402 to Montana Daylight #1402 to Lou Steplock-Wyoming & Pacific (WPRX) #1402

226. SOU 10S-2DR #2436 Robert Toombs (Lot #6284, Plan #3584B, 1929) converted in 1955 to coach #1042 sold in 1983 to Conrail #25 to GSMR #25 Piedmont

61. SOU 10S-1DR-2DB #2449 Thomas Ruffin (Lot #6284, Plan #4074D, 1929) converted in 1939 from 10S-2DR (Plan #3584B) to SERM

223. SOU 10S-2DB-1C #2452 Tufts College (Lot #4531, Plan #4042B, 1918) converted in 1937 from 10S-4RM John Slidell (Plan #2412H) converted in 1932 from 16S Trollope (Plan #2412F) converted in 1961 to baggage-express #4531 to Mississippi Great Southern Chapter

209. SOU 10S-buffet lounge observation #2458 Windsor Castle (Lot #4484, Plan #4027G, 1917) converted in 1932 from 16S Penvir (Plan #2412F) converted in 1955 to coach #1041 to Conrail executive sleeper #8 to CSX #994008 Mississippi

225. SOU 10S-buffet lounge observation #2459 Windsor Locks (Lot #4531, Plan #4027G, 1918) converted in 1932 from 16S Radcliffe (Plan #2412F) converted in 1954 to coach #1038 to MofW #960420 to NS sold in 1996 to Chuck Jensen to MALX to East Tennessee Rail Car Services

161. SOU 12S-1DR #2463 Brentwood (Lot #6023, Plan #3410G, 1926) to Old Dominion Chapter

146. SOU 12S-1DR #2470 Glacier (Lot #4763, Plan #3410, 1924) to LASTA

172. SOU 12S-1DR #2475 Lexington (Lot #6055, Plan #3410A, 1927) renamed in 1948 from Portsmouth converted to business car Tennessee later to #4 sold to Conrail #4 to NS #5 Maryland (#800356)

41. SOU 12S-1DR #2480 McChesney (Lot #4845, Plan #3410, 1925) to NCTM

112. SOU 12S-1DR #2484 McCreery (Lot #4845, Plan #3410, 1925) converted in 1961 to recreation-executive sleeper #18 to NS #13 Georgia (#800784)

173. SOU 8S-buffet lounge #2509 La Fontaine Club (Lot #4531, Plan #4025T, 1918) converted in 1932 from 16S Cuyama (Plan #2412F) converted in 1954 to coach #1032 to track inspection #19 to NS #23 Buena Vista (#800776)

328. SOU 8S-buffet lounge #2510 Moon Brook Club (Lot #4531, Plan #4025T, 1918) converted in 1932 from 16S Elmbank (Plan #2412F) converted in 1955 to coach #1044 to executive sleeper #15 Alabama (2nd) (1979) to NS #9 Alabama (#800769)

167. SOU 8S-buffet lounge #2511 Spring Brook Club (Lot #4484, Plan #4025T, 1917) converted in 1932 from 16S Placer (Plan #2412F) converted in 1954 to coach #1036 to MofW #960419 to NS to TVRM (2013)

65. SOU 8S-1DR-3DB #2512 Canonbury Tower (Lot #4846, Plan #4090, 1925) converted in 1939 from 10S-2DR Point Brown (Plan #3584) to private owner in Colorado

276. SOU 6C-3DR #2519 Bizet (Lot #4833, Plan #3523A, 1924) to South Carolina RR Museum

171. SOU 6C-3DR #2520 Corot (Lot #4887, Plan #3523A, 1925) converted to business car #14 renumbered to #1 renumbered to #9 sold to Roman Arnoldy #1 Intrepid (#800034) sold to private ownership #1 (#800034) (2002??)

91. SOU 6C-3DR #2523 Glen Summit (Lot #4974, Plan #3523F, 1926) to VMT to MALX to Iowa Pacific as SLRG #9172 (201?)

147. SOU 6S-1DR-lounge #2524 Sea Island (Lot #4296, Plan #4010, 1914) converted in 1930 from 16S Charing Cross (Plan #2412C) as Seaboard, renamed in 1935 to Sea Island converted in 1955 to coach #1045 to MofW #960421 to LASTA #1045

227. SOU 6S-1DR-lounge #2525 Seaside (Lot #4216, Plan #4010, 1913) converted in 1930 from 16S Kokomo (Plan #2412B) converted in 1955 to coach #1043 sold in 1983 to Conrail #26 to GSMR #26 Southland

111. 12S-1DR Osceola (Lot #4503, Plan #2410F, 1917) converted in 1941 to TC #1708 sold in 1947 to SOU and converted to dinette coach #3101 to business car #11 Tennessee renumbered to #6 renumbered to #16 to NS executive sleeper #11 Illinois (#800782)

109. 12S-1DR Shannon (Lot #4591, Plan #2410F, 1920) converted in 1941 to TC #1816 sold in 1947 to SOU and converted to dinette coach #3102 to business car #10 renumbered to #3 sold to Conrail #1 to NS #4 Michigan (#800221)

113. 12S-1DR Ronneby (Lot #4590, Plan #2410F, 1920) converted in 1943 to TC #2632 sold in 1947 to SOU and converted to dinette coach #3103 to business car #20 renumbered to #7 to NS #20 Ohio (#800774)

165. CNO&TP 10S-2DR #3506 Point Airy (Lot #4932, Plan #3584A, 1926) converted in 1954 to coach #1033 to City of Andersonville to TVRM (2013)

174. CNO&TP 10S-2DR #3509 Point Richmond (Lot #4961, Plan #3584A, 1926) converted to business car #21 to research #R-1 to NS track geometry car #31 to VMT (200?)

40. CNO&TP 12S-1DR #3510 Maitland (Lot #4845, Plan #3410A, 1925) to TVRM

160. CNO&TP 12S-1DR #3512 McGirth (Lot #4845, Plan #3410, 1925) to Old Dominion Chapter

162. 12S-1DR Bohemian (Lot #4076, Plan #2410I, 1912) converted in 1940 to 14S TC #3098 (Plan #4061A) sold in 1953 to SOU and converted to baggage #4064 to TVRM

221. 12S-1DR Parowan (Lot #4412, Plan #2410F, 1916) converted in 1941 to 14S TC #3139 (Plan #4061B), named Little Cave (1947-1950) sold in 1953 to SOU and converted to AGS baggage-express #4065 to KRM

220. 10S-1DR-2C Shrewsbury (Lot #4351, Plan #2585D, 1915) converted in 1951 to 13S TC #5139 sold in 1953 to SOU and converted to NO&NE baggage-express #4527 to Heart of Dixie

222. 12S-1DR Dorado (Lot #4540, Plan #2410F, 1918) converted in 1937 to 14S TC #3009 (Plan #4061) sold in 1953 to SOU and converted to NO&NE baggage-express #4529 to SERM

129. 10S-1DR-2C Medill (Lot #4443, Plan #2585E, 1916) converted in 1950 to 13S TC #5125 sold in 1953 to SOU and converted to baggage-express #4530 to TVRM

224. GS&F 10S-2DR #6204 Point Noire (Lot #4961, Plan #3584A, 1926) converted in 1952 to baggage-express #6457 to SERM

70. GS&F 10S-2DR #6206 William Aiken (Lot #4899, Plan #3584A, 1925) renamed in 1929 from Edward Cary Walthall converted in 1952 to baggage-express #6454 to NCTM

73. GS&F baggage-express #6462 to NCTM--full history unknown

166. 12S-1C-1DR Sophocles (Lot #4624, Plan #2411C, 1921) converted in 1951 to 14S TC #3154 sold in 1953 to SOU and converted to baggage-express #6464 to TVRM

280. Baggage-buffet parlor Van Cortlandt (Lot #6371, Plan #3987, 1930) sold in 1945 to SOU and converted to business car #2 sold to PC #1 sold to C&NW #402 Iowa--current status unknown

180. Baggage-buffet lounge Hampton Roads (Lot #6022, Plan #3951N, 1926) renamed in 1933 from Valley Forge sold in 1945 to SOU and converted to business car #3 renumbered to #1 renumbered to #14 to private ownership #60 Valley Forge (#800128) to Gulf & Ohio French Broad River to Grafton & Upton

110. Barber shop buffet lounge solarium observation Norman W. Kittson (Lot #6249, Plan #3990, 1929) sold in 1945 to SOU and converted in 1947 to business car #4 renumbered in 1953 to #15 (1st) leased to Auto Train (1972) sold to Arthur Boone #4 Boonesborough (#800026) located on Austin Steam Train-Austin & Texas Central

175. Baggage-buffet club lounge barber shop National Park (Lot #4885, Plan #3951L, 1925) sold in 1945 to SOU and converted to business car #9 renumbered to #8 renumbered to #5 renumbered to #8 to NS #8 Tennessee sold to private ownership and stored at MRLX

168. 12S-1DR Sueno (Lot #4591, Plan #2410F, 1920) converted in 1938 to TC #2220 sold in 1947 to SOU and converted in 1949 to safety instruction #SA-1 renumbered to #23 to TVRM

Sources:

1. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

2. Jerry LaBoda's photo links website: http://passcarphotos.info/

3. Mike Palmieri's SOU heavyweight sleeping car roster: http://southernmodeler.info/PrototypeInfo/Southern_HW.xls

4. Stan Garner's #800xxx-series car listings: http://www.movie-trains.com/pvlist.html

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Wed Jun 18, 2014 6:36 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
Posts: 341
Location: Morganton, N.C.
Quote:
Is there an accessible copy of this list of office cars that were acquired by Judge Roy Hofheinz?


Well, yes and no...

There is a file located on the Passenger Car List @ Yahoo! Groups that lists most cars though you would have to be a member to view the file. I can tell you that it misses the six business cars that were acquired by the Judge from Southern Railway, 16, 17, 18, 22, 24 and CofG COLUMBUS, which now resides at the Savannah, Ga., at the Historic Roundhouse Shops.

I also wonder if the CofG ACF grill - lounge 690 might have been a part of this sale as well, with the car ending up on the property of a large ranch in Texas, inaccessible to the public. I can't help but to wonder about this since it would help to explain how the car ended up in Texas.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving Pullman Heavyweight Sleeping Cars
PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 5:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 1670
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
A Correction:

As posted by Ray Grabowski, Jr., President of Lake Shore RHS, over in the Iowa Pacific roster thread on page #6 (http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36455&start=75):

152. Lake Terrell (Lot #4770, Plan #3585L, 1924, 10S-1DR-2C)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold in 1967 to Ruben Darby-Darby Wood Products to Lake Shore RHS agreement reached with Iowa Pacific to lease the Lake Terrell, SLRG #9173 will not be applied to car, will carry ENEX reporting marks, still in North East, PA

154. Poplar Summit (Lot #4845, Plan #4084A, 1925/39, 6S-6DB, ex-McClung, ACL/PRR)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold in 1967 to Ruben Darby-Darby Wood Products to Lake Shore RHS sold to Iowa Pacific as SLRG #9166, moved in 2011 to Lancaster & Chester, then to Alamosa

151. Central Park (Lot #4886, Plan #3959E, 1925, 3C-2DR-lng-obs, NYC)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold in 1955 to Chattahoochee Valley RR to Lake Shore RHS agreement reached with Iowa Pacific to lease the Central Park, SLRG #9174 will not be applied to car, will carry ENEX reporting marks, still in North East, PA

153. Nightstar (Lot #6056, Plan #3980C, 1927, 14SBD, MILW)--retained (12/31/1948)--sold in 1964 to Midwest Steel to Lake Shore RHS agreement reached with Iowa Pacific to lease the Nightstar, SLRG #9175 will not be applied to car, will carry ENEX reporting marks, still in North East, PA

Sources:

1. Post by Ray Grabowski, Jr. in Iowa Pacific thread

2. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://passcarphotos.info/

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