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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 1:25 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 456
Location: Byers, Colorado
Please let me know if there is anything at all I can do to help restore NdeM 3028 to service, including sending donations. BEST OF LUCK TO YOU GENTLEMEN.

Happy Labor Day, WORK SAFE,
Sammy

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2014 3:14 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:47 pm
Posts: 475
traingeek8223 wrote:
Well, you are almost correct. The locomotive is indeed now owned by the ALCO Historical & Technical Society. It has been passed on to us by the Great North East Railroad Foundation in order to carry on their original goal of preservation. That being said, we are only now starting to plan for the locomotive's future, with an emphasis on a restoration to operation. There are no plans for a stuff and mount. Now, where that restoration and operation take place has only started to be explored. There are many people that would like to see the locomotive returned to the Capitol District, but we want to see the locomotive end up somewhere it can be properly used and maintained. There are many options on the table at the moment and we will do our due diligence before making that decision. For now we work on the seldom seen, but always important work that goes on behind the scenes; paperwork!


~cough~ Steamtown ~cough~

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 12:18 pm 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 611
Location: Bucks County, PA
Mark Z. Yerkes wrote:
traingeek8223 wrote:
Well, you are almost correct. The locomotive is indeed now owned by the ALCO Historical & Technical Society. It has been passed on to us by the Great North East Railroad Foundation in order to carry on their original goal of preservation. That being said, we are only now starting to plan for the locomotive's future, with an emphasis on a restoration to operation. There are no plans for a stuff and mount. Now, where that restoration and operation take place has only started to be explored. There are many people that would like to see the locomotive returned to the Capitol District, but we want to see the locomotive end up somewhere it can be properly used and maintained. There are many options on the table at the moment and we will do our due diligence before making that decision. For now we work on the seldom seen, but always important work that goes on behind the scenes; paperwork!


~cough~ Steamtown ~cough~


Yes, imagine the backlash - from having operating Canadian steam locomotives, to an operating Mexican steam locomotive, at a US National Historic Site. I'm not against the idea - but I can see the fallout and complaints now...

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:43 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:37 pm
Posts: 219
Location: Detroit, Michigan
People going to Steamtown will want behind any steam locomotives as long IT's Running regardless IF the engine from Canada or Mexico.

When I was at NHIR with my folks, L&C 40 was inside the shed behind their GP30. The overall experience at NHIR was still good. I got to see most of the accessible railroad rolling stock, especially where NdeM 3028 was hiding. Best part overall was got cab ride in NHIR 7087.

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:59 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:03 pm
Posts: 115
Location: Pennsylvania
3028 would also fill in the role of an American-built export locomotive if she was sent to Steamtown. That said, she is probably a little too big for Steamtown with an 86 foot wheelbase on a 90 foot turntable.


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:39 pm 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 611
Location: Bucks County, PA
o484 wrote:
3028 would also fill in the role of an American-built export locomotive if she was sent to Steamtown. That said, she is probably a little too big for Steamtown with an 86 foot wheelbase on a 90 foot turntable.


You know what, I never thought of it that way - to frame it as an American-built export. That could work for a Steamtown crowd.

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:11 pm 

Joined: Thu Dec 01, 2011 11:23 am
Posts: 210
Location: Sheboygan County, Wisconsin
Perhaps just a trifle off-topic, but still QR-1 related. The late Virgil Staff dubbed me some cassettes years ago from his reel to reel tapes of NdeM steam in the early to mid 60's.

One has a 4-8-4 struggling to start an over tonnage train past the yardmasters office at Valle in the rain and it was done with a minimum of slipping. The exhausts were several seconds apart for some time. These machines did pretty well in freight service during their final years.


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:15 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 240
Mark Z. Yerkes wrote:
~cough~ Steamtown ~cough~


National Park Service hernia checkup?

The Park Service management in Scranton already has more equipment than it has shown an ability to keep in a preserved state. There are plenty of options in the existing motive power collection to provide for any possible trip on the mainlines or in the yard. The solution is not more locos.

Live steam in NY sounds like a great idea as it brings it to an area that is underserved. Best of luck to the ALCO Historical & Technical Society folks.


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 3:30 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:47 pm
Posts: 475
Scranton Yard wrote:
Mark Z. Yerkes wrote:
~cough~ Steamtown ~cough~


National Park Service hernia checkup?

The Park Service management in Scranton already has more equipment than it has shown an ability to keep in a preserved state. There are plenty of options in the existing motive power collection to provide for any possible trip on the mainlines or in the yard. The solution is not more locos.

Live steam in NY sounds like a great idea as it brings it to an area that is underserved. Best of luck to the ALCO Historical & Technical Society folks.


The comment I responded to stated that the group would be looking for an area to run and maintain the locomotive once it is restored. Steamtown may take forever when it comes to restoring locomotives, but it does a pretty good job of keeping the engines it does have running in good condition. Also, being a loan engine and not the property of Steamtown, it could be restored to operation in Scranton without having to follow the strict rules regarding how things are completed (Case in point, one of the F3s currently being down for a generator rebuild; if Steamtown had restored that unit, the generator would've been rebuilt at the start and that locomotive would've probably taken much longer to complete).

Bottom line, while Steamtown doesn't have a great track record at restoring locomotives, it is more than adequate when it comes to maintaining and running them. Especially with loaned equipment. The owners get a complete facility to run and maintain their locomotive and Steamtown gets a running locomotive. So tell me why again why Steamtown isn't a good location for an operable steam locomotive?

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:10 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 240
Not looking to hijack this thread by redirecting into yet another discussion of the many issues in Scranton, so I'll be as brief as possible.

Mr. Yerkes first discusses bringing a restored operable loco to Scranton and then he discusses restoring it at the shops in Scranton, so it is not clear to me which option he is suggesting.

Based on my first-hand knowledge of the work on 663 when it first came to Scranton, the fact that other locos have come to Scranton and have not been totally overhauled prior to operation (26, 2317, 3254), that diesel maintenance and operation standards are different than FRA mandated steam operations and maintenance, and that no preservation guideline that I am aware of requires the total overhaul of every system in a mechanical device, Mr. Yerkes' assertion that the F3's generator issue would have been addressed "at the start" if STEA personnel had restored the unit is erroneous or, at best, questionable.

In considering the wisdom of bringing more equipment into the yard at Scranton, it is best to think about the many responsibilities of the shop staff. This is not an inclusive list:

1. Restore historic steam-era equipment
2. Maintain operating steam-era equipment - this includes both scheduled and unscheduled maintenance/repairs.
3. Advise, instruct, and otherwise assist shop volunteers.
4. Assist in operations (train crew) as needed.

Items two through four delay, and otherwise detract from, the performance of item one. So, unless a visiting loco, such as 3028 in Mr. Yerkes' hypothetical, comes with a full operating and maintenance crew, it will only serve to further slow the restoration work on the motive power and rolling stock already at Scranton.

My hope is that the ALCO group is successful in their long-term plans for this fine locomotive.


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1607
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
The reality here is that for this engine to leave New Hope someone's going to have to raise at least half a million bucks to pay for the cranes on both ends to get it mounted on special flat cars and pay the tariff to get it moved. That's just to move it. Then you're looking at at least another $ 1 Million to get it back under steam.

I wish them well but until/unless they can show some serious fund raising ability it's just talk.

IMHO-Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:31 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:44 pm
Posts: 94
I may be guilty of foaming at the mouth here, but If/When the locomotive feels a fire in her belly again, it would look darn nice rolling through the Adirondacks...just saying.

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 4:39 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
And I'll just add that while I love Canadian steam in all its aspects, I feel little warmth or connection with this Mexican 4-8-4, at least not at this time.

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:40 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:47 pm
Posts: 475
Scranton Yard wrote:
Not looking to hijack this thread by redirecting into yet another discussion of the many issues in Scranton, so I'll be as brief as possible.

Mr. Yerkes first discusses bringing a restored operable loco to Scranton and then he discusses restoring it at the shops in Scranton, so it is not clear to me which option he is suggesting.

Based on my first-hand knowledge of the work on 663 when it first came to Scranton, the fact that other locos have come to Scranton and have not been totally overhauled prior to operation (26, 2317, 3254), that diesel maintenance and operation standards are different than FRA mandated steam operations and maintenance, and that no preservation guideline that I am aware of requires the total overhaul of every system in a mechanical device, Mr. Yerkes' assertion that the F3's generator issue would have been addressed "at the start" if STEA personnel had restored the unit is erroneous or, at best, questionable.

In considering the wisdom of bringing more equipment into the yard at Scranton, it is best to think about the many responsibilities of the shop staff. This is not an inclusive list:

1. Restore historic steam-era equipment
2. Maintain operating steam-era equipment - this includes both scheduled and unscheduled maintenance/repairs.
3. Advise, instruct, and otherwise assist shop volunteers.
4. Assist in operations (train crew) as needed.

Items two through four delay, and otherwise detract from, the performance of item one. So, unless a visiting loco, such as 3028 in Mr. Yerkes' hypothetical, comes with a full operating and maintenance crew, it will only serve to further slow the restoration work on the motive power and rolling stock already at Scranton.

My hope is that the ALCO group is successful in their long-term plans for this fine locomotive.


I was not suggesting anything, merely pointing out that both situations would work. I know this is a subject no one likes to hear, but to the best of my knowledge, the RMM used their own restoration crew on 1361 when it was there, and I've hear several times that the 3713 restoration has utilized outside contractor groups for in-shop work.

Also, my statement about the generator being worked on at the outset of the overhaul was based on the knowledge that the Steamtown crew appears to address everything when overhauling/restoring a locomotive. It seems only logical that, had Steamtown owned the units, everything would've been addressed before the units went into service.

You clearly know more than I do, I do not argue that, but as Steamtown already moves at a snail's pace when it comes to restoration work, what is the downside of having an operational steam locomotive at the park?

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:13 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
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o484 wrote:
3028 would also fill in the role of an American-built export locomotive if she was sent to Steamtown. That said, she is probably a little too big for Steamtown with an 86 foot wheelbase on a 90 foot turntable.



I would love to see a big export locomotive preserved in a national collection. A certain Baldwin 2-8-2 mentioned here as being for sale few weeks back would do. Any donors. :-)

Also remember Vulcan cranked out quite a few larger export locomotives just down the pike from Scranton in Wilkes-Barre.

I am not suggesting anything along these lines is a near term possibility, but Steamtown or the RRMofPA would be interesting places to preserve an export loco built in Pennsylvania.

Back to dreaming...

Rob


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