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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 9:41 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 973
Location: Back in NE Ohio
Chittenango Falls was used in the '60's as a sit-down dining service car on Midwest Chapter's all-day mainline excursions. I was on several excursions where that was going on, but never had the opportunity as a child to partake of their fare. My family either packed sandwiches, or, as a treat I could get a hot dog in the counter car, which was converted from C&O Ashby Tavern (sold for scrap around 1975 at Cleveland - the roof had rotted out). So, I know Chittenango Falls was being actively used in mainline service up to about 1970. Thanks, Sandy, for the recent photo. I thought it had met it's fate decades ago.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:18 pm 
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Thanks, Paul, for the info on Chittenango Falls and C&O Ashby Tavern!

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:01 pm 
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Part Two: Postwar Lightweights, Continued:

Sleepers, Continued:

6DB Buffet Lounge Stream-Series:

11 Cars, Budd, Lot #9663-023, Plan #9505, 1949, NYC Lot #2201:

Ordered in December 1945, delivered between March and May 1949. 6DB sleeper 22 seat buffet lounge.

Several cars were renumbered to the #6xx-series in 1966-67 for parlor service. There is not a #662 listed--was one of the 11 cars intended to be renumbered as #662? The PC #71xx-series are not listed by Randall, but are listed by both Palmieri and Warner, who also list some of the PC #44xx-series numbers as not being applied before sale to Amtrak.

#10620 Forest Stream to PC #4411 sold in 1971 to Amtrak #3200. Retired in October 1980 and sold in 1981 to an unknown party. Current status unknown.

#10621 Gulf Stream renumbered in May 1966 to #657 to PC #7165 to #4416 sold in 1973 to Amtrak #3205. Retired in October 1981 and sold in 1983 to private ownership??, later to Reading Company Technical & Historical Society (Hamburg, PA). Did this car receive RCTH reporting marks?

#10622 Rapid Stream renumbered in October 1967 to #663 to PC #7170 to #4417 (number not listed by Warner, is listed by Palmieri) sold in 1973 to Amtrak #3206. Retired in October 1981 and sold (when??) to private ownership. Car was burned at least twice by vandals while in storage, at last report was stored in Colonie Yard (Albany, NY), was possibly to be scrapped due to rebuild of yard. Was this car ultimately scrapped or moved? Current status unknown.

#10623 Rippling Stream renumbered in May 1966 to #658 to PC #7166 to #4418 (number listed as not applied by Palmieri, not listed by Warner) sold in 1974 to Amtrak #3209. Retired in October 1981 and sold (when??) to private ownership (several), later to Austin Steam Train Association-Austin & Texas Central (Burnet, TX), refurbished and restored to NYC lettering, as seen on page #4 in Bradley Linda's photo. Did this car receive ATCX reporting marks?

#10624 Boulder Stream renumbered in May 1966 to #656 to PC #7164 to #4419 (number listed as not applied by Palmieri, not listed by Warner) sold in 1974 to Amtrak, intended as #3776 (number listed as not applied by Palmieri, not listed by Warner) to #3208 (number listed as not applied by Palmieri). Retired in October 1981 and sold in 1983 to private ownership #800002. Current status unknown.

#10625 Crystal Stream renumbered in May 1967 to #661 to PC #4414 sold in 1973 to Amtrak #3203. Retired in October 1981 and sold in 1983 to an unknown party. Current status unknown.

#10626 Woodland Stream to PC #4412 sold in 1971 to Amtrak #3201. Retired in October 1981 and sold in 1983 to private ownership??, later (when??) to Orrville Railroad Heritage Society #800332 (Orrville, OH). Did this car receive ORHZ reporting marks?

#10627 Swift Stream renumbered in May 1967 to #660 to PC #4415 sold in 1973 to Amtrak #3204. Retired in October 1981 and sold in 1983 to private ownership?? and located at the Midland RY Historical Association (Baldwin City, KS), later moved to Los Angeles and renamed City of Angels (1st) (#800460), then sold (when??) to second private owner. Acquired (when??) by Mid America Railcar Leasing, name changed back to Swift Stream.

#10628 Laurel Stream to PC #4413 sold in 1971 to Amtrak #3202. Retired in October 1981 and sold in 1982 to private ownership #800180, later (when??) acquired by Mid America Railcar Leasing, name changed to City of Angels (2nd).

#10629 Mountain Stream renumbered in May 1967 to #659 to PC #4423. No further disposition information. Current status unknown.

#10630 Rainbow Stream retired and sold in July 1966 to SBC #6002 Netzahualcoyotl, later (when??) renumbered/renamed #5808 El Cachanilla. Current status unknown.

Sources:

1. "Streamliner Cars Volume Two: The Budd Company" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

2. Terry Link's NYC passenger car roster pages: http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/NYC-MODELS-PASS.htm

3. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

4. Jerry LaBoda's photo links database: http://passcarphotos.info/

5. Mike Palmieri's Amtrak rosters

6. "Amtrak by the Numbers" by David C. Warner and Elbert Simon (White River Productions, 2011)

7. Stan Garner's #800xxx-series passenger car listings: http://www.movie-trains.com/pvlist.html

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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Ted Brumberg


Last edited by Rainier Rails on Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:05 pm 

Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:56 pm
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Rippling Stream is with ASTA at it's terminal in Cedar Park, TX. I don't believe it received ATCX marks. It has been at Cedar Park for probably 10-15 years, only sold to ASTA in the past couple of years. Restored in 2013, and in regular service starting 4-2014 Interior photos available via http://www.austinsteamtrain.org - as well as photos of the rest of the fleet.

Bradley Linda
Waco, TX


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 10:12 pm 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Thanks, Bradley, for the info on Rippling Stream!

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:10 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
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Location: Thomaston & White Plains
#10629 Mountain Stream renumbered in May 1967 to #659 to PC #4423. No further disposition information. Current status unknown.

******************

Mountain Stream was rebuilt by NYC's North White Plains coach shop in the mid-60, with the lounge area becoming a large open "standee bar", and four of the six DBRs become a large enclosed card-playing area. The bar service area was in the last two DBRs. PC 4423 was eventually transferred to Metro-North upon MNCR's startup in 1982, and apparently operated as a club car-bar for a short time. It was later stored, pending conversion to official train/inspection train use (with the two "Phoebe Snow" tavern-lounges), but that never happened. By 1998-99, PC 4423 was slightly bum-infested at Stamford Yard (Conn.) and was bought by RMNE. It was later (some time around 1999-2001) sold by RMNE to RDG Tech & Historical.

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue Oct 14, 2014 11:27 pm 
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Thanks, Howard, for the info on Mountain Stream!

I had noted the Gulf Stream as owned by Reading Co. T&HS. Do they own both cars, or is the Gulf Stream elsewhere?

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 1:08 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:22 pm
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#10624 Boulder Stream renumbered in May 1966 to #656 to PC #7164 to #4419 (number listed as not applied by Palmieri, not listed by Warner) sold in 1974 to Amtrak, intended as #3776 (number listed as not applied by Palmieri, not listed by Warner) to #3208 (number listed as not applied by Palmieri). Retired in October 1981 and sold in 1983 to private ownership #800002. Current status unknown.
Texas Streamliners - a group out of Dallas own the car - it's stored at Dallas Union Terminal in east Dallas - moved there in 2011


#10626 Woodland Stream to PC #4412 sold in 1971 to Amtrak #3201. Retired in October 1981 and sold in 1983 to [color=#BF0000]private ownership??Rich Kostura in Pittsburgh, PA[/color], later (when??) to Orrville Railroad Heritage Society #800332/Glen Bowman, who also owns PRR Lounge Car Paul Revere (Orrville, OH). Did this car receive ORHZ reporting marks?

#10627 Swift Stream renumbered in May 1967 to #660 to PC #4415 sold in 1973 to Amtrak #3204. Retired in October 1981 and sold in 1983 to private ownership??[color=#BF0000]Michael Fox[/color] and located at the Midland RY Historical Association (Baldwin City, KS), later moved to Los Angeles and LEASED TO UNCOMMON JOURNEYS renamed City of Angels (1st) (#800460), then sold (when??) to second private owner. Acquired (2007) by NYC Investments - Birmingham, AL - operated by Mid America Railcar Leasing.

#10628 Laurel Stream to PC #4413 sold in 1971 to Amtrak #3202. Retired in October 1981 and sold in 1982 to private ownershipNEW ORLEANS NRHS - Messina and Tilton #800180, later (when??) acquired by [u]IFE LEASING, name changed to City of Angels (2nd).


Fact - just because a car has MRLX reporting marks, doesn't mean it's OWNED by MRLX. When UMLER became necessary and you couldn't just spray paint PPCX 800XXX
on the side of a car anymore, Mid America offered more than reasonable usage terms for equipment owners looking to make equipment roadworthy. That's why there are so many MRLX cars rostered.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 3:53 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
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Location: Morganton, N.C.
Quote:
Did this car receive ORHZ reporting marks?


Most cars owned by Orrville RR Heritage Society carry RPCX reporting marks.

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Passenger Car Photo Index Updated 8/9/17 with 8,402 new links

Interurban Car Photo Index
PCC Car Photo Index


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:56 pm 
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Thanks, MRLX1020 and Jerry, for all the info on the Stream-series cars!

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:37 pm 
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Rainier Rails wrote:
#10126 Castle Valley. Listed by Randall as retired and sold in 1968 to Indiana Railroad Museum (not Railway), listed by Link as retired and sold in December 1967 to the Railway Exposition Company. If Link's listing is correct, than is this car still at the RY Museum of Greater Cincinnati, or has it been moved elsewhere? Current status unknown.
Rainier Rails wrote:
#10102 Navajo Valley to PC #4252 sold in 1973 to Amtrak #2834. Planned for conversion to HEP #2895, which was cancelled. Car stored until listed for sale in September 1991. Sold to Colorado Railcar (along with Tonawanda Harbor), recently listed for sale on Ozark Mountain Railcar.


I was looking through some of my notes, and I had listed both the Castle Valley and the Navajo Valley as being located at the RY Museum of Greater Cincinnati (Latonia, KY). Now, the question is, was the Navajo Valley in Latonia before the car was sold to Colorado Railcar, or after acquisition from Colorado Railcar?

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 6:43 pm 
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I think I just answered my own question--

Looking again at the same notes, I also have C&O 10-6 sleeper City of Charleston (2nd) (ex-City of Ludington) listed as located at the RY Museum of Greater Cincinnati. The City of Charleston was listed for sale on Ozark Mountain Railcar at the same time as the Navajo Valley and Tonawanda Harbor, so it would appear that these 2 NYC cars were at Latonia after acquisition from Colorado Railcar.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:12 am 
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Additional Info:

Rainier Rails wrote:
#10213 Hocking River to CN #2087 Saskatchewan River to VIA #2087. Retired and sold (198?) to private ownership #800361 Saskatchewan River, resold to Hartwell-Lowe Corporation as HLC #1904 and renamed Norma Peterson (#800361). Current status unknown.


A Trainorders thread from October 2010 provided additional info on this car: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?4,2289767

#10213 Hocking River to CN #2087 Saskatchewan River to VIA #2087. Retired and sold (1982??) to John Baldwin sold (when??) to Hartwell-Lowe Corporation (Lowe Family) as Acme-Tonopah (HLC) #1904 Norma Peterson (#800361) (with 2 roomettes removed) sold (when??) to Brad Black and Francis Wong (Black-Wong Railcar Leasing/BWRL) donated by Brad Black in 2002 to the Western New York RY Historical Society in Buffalo. Picture from the WNYRHS website's passenger car page: http://www.trainweb.org/wnyrhs/Images/fsnorma.jpg (Joe Kocsis photo)

According to the Trainorders thread, the Hocking River was stored at the Medina RR Museum in Medina. However, this Railroad.net thread shows that the car is stored in Creek Yard in Buffalo, as of September 2011: http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=128&t=85989

The Trainorders thread included a photo of this car as the Saskatchewan River in the CP coach yard in Vancouver in December 1980, still in CN Black & White: http://www.railpixs.com/via/CP_shops_Vancouver_Dec80.jpg (photo located via Jerry LaBoda's website)

Rainier Rails wrote:
#10174 St. Regis River to CN #2083 Riviere Rouge to VIA #2083. Retired and sold (198?) to Jack Deasy #800272. Current status unknown.


As I recently posted in the U34CH thread: http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=37273

#10174 St. Regis River to CN #2083 Riviere Rouge to VIA #2083. Retired and sold (1982??) to Jack Deasy, reconfigured to 6DB sleeper buffet lounge as the St. Regis River (#800272), sold (when??) to New York & Greenwood Lake and renamed Chestnut Hill, with 2 bedrooms removed. In Passaic, NY, on 9/10/2005: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=186785 (Juan Alvarez photo)

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 11:09 am 

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"I was looking through some of my notes, and I had listed both the Castle Valley and the Navajo Valley as being located at the RY Museum of Greater Cincinnati (Latonia, KY). Now, the question is, was the Navajo Valley in Latonia before the car was sold to Colorado Railcar, or after acquisition from Colorado Railcar?"


I don't believe the Navajo Valley was ever sold to CO Railcar. As far as I know it has been at Latonia since acquisition from Amtrak by a private owner circa 1992. Unfortunately, as so often happens, the owner tore the roomettes out of the car. The owner died in 2013 and I believe the car is still for sale.

The Castle Valley has been at Latonia for many years and as far as I know is still located there.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving NYC Lightweight Cars
PostPosted: Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:20 pm 
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Thanks, Topfuel, for the correction!

I checked Ozark Mountain Railcar's website again, and noticed I had made an error in my notes:

The 2 cars that were painted red and owned by Colorado Railcar were Slumbercoaches NYC #10380/#10817 Tonawanda Harbor and NYC #10800/NP #333 Loch Tay.

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