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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:35 pm 
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Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:46 pm
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
Again with the specualtion.
Does anyone know of an actual conversation with the owner of this locomotive? Until I read of an owner actually in talks with someone, all I hear is Charlie Brown's teacher talking: Wa wa-wa wa waaaaa....

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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:02 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1028
Location: Youngstown, OH
While moving 643 on its own wheels may not be possible, placing it on a flatcar would be.

Reading 2100 went on a flatcar, proving the concept of moving large steam in this method:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=120842

2100's engine weight is 441,000 lbs.
B&LE 643 engine weight is 523,000 lbs., which would require a higher capacity car, such as this: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPict ... ?id=417741

The tail track that serves McKees Rocks Forgings ends at the beginning of the lot in which 643 is sitting in. By laying about 300 feet of panel track it would be possible to spot a flat on which to load 643.

If gantries of this capacity are available I would use them instead of hydraulic cranes.

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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:21 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
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Rick,

I've never understood the gloom and doom on the Internet about how hard it would be to move her. As you said, she's near live rail. She's in a place where she could be "picked up." Locomotives her size, and bigger, have been moved my truck.

It seems like the only hurdle is money. Am I missing something?

Rob

Hot Metal wrote:
While moving 643 on its own wheels may not be possible, placing it on a flatcar would be.

Reading 2100 went on a flatcar, proving the concept of moving large steam in this method:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=120842

2100's engine weight is 441,000 lbs.
B&LE 643 engine weight is 523,000 lbs., which would require a higher capacity car, such as this: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPict ... ?id=417741

The tail track that serves McKees Rocks Forgings ends at the beginning of the lot in which 643 is sitting in. By laying about 300 feet of panel track it would be possible to spot a flat on which to load 643.

If gantries of this capacity are available I would use them instead of hydraulic cranes.

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The long memory is the most radical idea in this country. It is the loss of that long memory which deprives our people of that connective flow of thoughts and events that clarifies our vision, not of where we're going, but where we want to go. B. Phillips


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 6:42 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
Yes, you are missing the gloom and doom and whining about how it will never happen. These are problems, and most problems take determination to solve. And sure, there is expense, but people determined to play this out can absolutely get the result they wish.
These are machines, not mountains.
I do agree, however, the owner of the 2-10-4 hasn't yet been heard from.

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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 8:31 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2050
snap tracking by 30 miles under its own power...8-)

IRM moved the Santa Fe 4-8-4 from the Museum of Science and industry via snap track to live rail thru the city streets. We've discussed this to death already...now whats next?


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:29 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:03 pm
Posts: 114
Location: Pennsylvania
Look at how UP 833 was moved.

Image


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:41 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:58 am
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And CN Northern 6313 in Toronto:

http://wayoutinthemargin.blogspot.ca/2009/06/heritage-moving-locomotive-6213.html

Even though 643 is a big locomotive, it's only a machine and it is movable. The key is having people in charge who understand the various ways to make it happen, and having sufficient funding lined up.

And, most important of all, but often neglected in these threads, the locomotive owner must allow it to happen.

Hopefully good things will happen for this impressive machine.

Steve Hunter


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:55 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 10:03 pm
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Location: Pennsylvania
FWIW, I did read a comment somewhere recently where someone who claimed to know the owner of the 634 did say that there are plans in the works for it, but said that he wasn't at liberty to share what exactly they were. Until anything else is said or done, I would take that with a grain of salt.


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:08 pm 
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Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
o484 wrote:
FWIW, I did read a comment somewhere recently where someone who claimed to know the owner of the 634 did say that there are plans in the works for it, but said that he wasn't at liberty to share what exactly they were.

It's always hard not to laugh at stuff like this (in regard to the post o484 is referencing, not the post he just made). So, you know 'the guy' and something's happening, but you can't say what it is? So why'd you even open your mouth at all, then?

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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:54 pm 

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:22 pm
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I can't say too much about the "some guy told me..." because I've had to do that more than once. When a PR guy or a manager tells you "This is not for attribution, but we don't care who knows that..." there are times when you do have to use the information even if you look like a nut or a liar until it verifies.

The mysteries of modern business makes it hard to judge the quality of those revelations. At one point, Rosby's Rock was supposed to be on the National Register. Someone told the media a day early, citing the press release in her hands that wasn't supposed to run until morning, and Chessie System (at the time) revoked the NRHP application because of the spoiler. In another case, one of our county commissioners scotched two important business developments by announcing them early, each time crowing "It's a done deal!" We got to the point of groaning that new development was a done-in deal if she'd discussed it. In all cases, the information should have been valid and the companies changed their minds because someone squealed. Chessie later admitted that had the news report been "We've received information from a reliable source that..." it would have been fine with them.

That said, nothing much surprises me any more. I thought there was a lot more than 300 feet to begotiate between the engine and an open rail line. I'll believe it when I see pictures of the move, but I wouldn't say it can't happen this time no matter how often it's failed before.

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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 7:26 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
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Spot on, Becky. There are many situations when a source is kept hidden by design. The example you used about embargoed press releases is one of the classics.

Floating ideas through "anonymous sources" is also a great way to judge sentiment or interest. It is also a tactic used to apply pressure or influence.

Of course, it is also a tactic used to make someone look important by being "in the know." In the Super Secret Squirrel world of railfanning, having some kind of "inside info" is often used as currency to try to climb an imaginary social ladder.

The trick, for the receiver of information, is to discern if the party in question really knows something and knows what they can say without betraying trust; they really know something and have an ulterior motive for exposing a bit of it to light; or they may or may not have knowledge but want to be seen as super cool by the gang at the local grade crossing on Saturday.

Sharp-eyed readers of RYPN who also make the effort to check details via back channels will know each of these varieties of tales come up here, but certain users are clearly in the first category of folks who want to share info and know just how many beans can be spilled. Conversely, there are others who fall in the later category. It is up to you, the reader, to judge for yourself.

Personally, I doubt the owner(s) of #643 will ever post here. There is no reason for them to do so. The best we can hope for is reliable second-hand news.

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The long memory is the most radical idea in this country. It is the loss of that long memory which deprives our people of that connective flow of thoughts and events that clarifies our vision, not of where we're going, but where we want to go. B. Phillips


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:23 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
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Richard Glueck wrote:
Yes, you are missing the gloom and doom and whining about how it will never happen. These are problems, and most problems take determination to solve. And sure, there is expense, but people determined to play this out can absolutely get the result they wish. These are machines, not mountains.


If the article is correct, the town of Tarentum would be involved. I suspect that would make some things easier than if it was going to some railfan. Other municipalities may be more willing to work with them, permits might be easier, that sort of thing.

As for moving mountains (wait, isn't that a 4-8-2?) I keep recalling all the gloom and doom about the "Lost Engines of Roanoke" and how it would never happen and they couldn't be move and, and and... But somehow, when the time finally came, it was pretty uneventful.

Also, keep in mind that this is Pittsburgh, and while much of the steel industry is gone, there's still lots of heavy industry and engineering skill around. If somebody really wants to make this happen, it will happen.


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:39 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
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remember when they moved a big boy via truck?


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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 1:49 am 

Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 4:22 pm
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The oil and gas industry has been moving some atrocious loads around here, far bigger than most locomotives. There's also a place around Coshocton, Ohio building enormous transformers and shipping them down I-70/470/SR7 to Bellaire for river loading. They do a lot of crawling up off-ramps and down on-ramps to avoid overpasses, but they manage. If the owner really wants to do this now, the equipment to do it is around the area and could get to McKees Rocks anytime.

I don't think physical considerations were the deal-breaker before. People change their minds, circumstances change, things become possible that weren't, and there are a lot of false starts along the way.

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 Post subject: Re: B&LE 643 in the news
PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 9:03 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
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Location: Pottstown,Pa.
As I've previously posted I made a serious effort several years ago as a "friend of the court" to broker a deal that would have seen this locomotive moved to a very appropriate new home where it would have been placed indoors, taken care of in perpetuity and available for limited public viewing.

The new " home" would have borne the substantial ( think mid 6 figures) costs of disassembling,trucking and reassembling the engine when it arrived.

The deal breaker was the totally unrealistic stance of the owner and until/unless that changes it will sit where it is.

IMHO there is zero chance that it will ever move on its own wheels and thus the only 2 ways it will leave where it sits is either in 4/5 major pieces via heavy haul trucks to a new display home, or in ?????????? pieces to the scrappers yard.

Sad but true. Ross Rowland


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