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 Post subject: 3' Narrow Gauge Musuem Liquidating?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:37 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:11 am
Posts: 23
Forgive me if this was already posted.
I went onto Ozark Mountain's website this morning and noticed a whole bunch of 3' gauge equipment being sold. I'm sure with some digging I could find out what the story is, but was hoping someone here could give me a quick synopsis. There are three steamers and a whole array of cars. Some of the cars are even drop bottom gons, which relate to one of the other topics recently discussed on the interchange. Thanks in advance for any insight.

Locomotives:
http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/det ... ive-40-NEW
http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/det ... Shay-8-NEW
http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/det ... ive-44-NEW

Cars:
http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/det ... x-Cars-NEW
http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/det ... at-Car-NEW
http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/det ... a-Cars-NEW
http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/det ... nk-Car-NEW
http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/det ... t-Cars-NEW
http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/det ... a-Cars-NEW
http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/det ... t--Car-NEW
http://www.ozarkmountainrailcar.com/det ... nk-Car-NEW


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 Post subject: Re: 3' Narrow Gauge Musuem Liquidating?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:00 am 

Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 5:51 pm
Posts: 78
It is not really a museum that is liquidating. This is equipment that is owned by the group that used to operate the Georgetown Loop Railroad a few years back. Much of it has been stored at the Colorado Railroad Museum these last several years.

/Kevin


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 Post subject: Re: 3' Narrow Gauge Musuem Liquidating?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:36 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2078
Georgetown loop is still running, using a shay and 2 diesels, same operating group? or sold or whatever?


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 Post subject: Re: 3' Narrow Gauge Musuem Liquidating?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:48 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 909
Hi,

Lindsey Ashby restored the GTL to operation. This is what is left of his equipment.

In about 2001-2, his lease of the Colorado Historical Society's property (Georgetown Loop grade and R.O.W.) was not renewed.

A long and sordid political fight where the head of the CHS wanted the railroad for his own. He tried to buy the Ashby equipment but Ashby would not sell.

They beat the hell out of C&S #9 trying to use the 2-6-0 to carry the load of the 3-4 shays and two outside frame 2-8-0s Ashby had.

CHS had a bunch of steel company diesels and Oahu (?) 2-6-2 #12 trying to aid the #9.

Lots of details over on NGDF.

Ashby started the rebuilding in the late 1960's and he and his son run the now moribund ex-D&RGW Royal Gorge SG operation out of Canyon City using F units.

They have been trying to sell the NG items for a while and a list is over on NGDF of what is left. This is now on Ozark.

FWIW.

Doug vV

By the way, the head of the CHS ended up with a very bad name and left the PRIVATELY owned and run CHS. This was a very good organization but a few were in it for conspicuous power maybe (social climbing) .....


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 Post subject: Re: 3' Narrow Gauge Musuem Liquidating?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:56 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 06, 2010 9:29 am
Posts: 212
There are three sides to every story......my side, your side and the actual truth.
Having spoken at length with most of those directly involved, there's blame enough for everyone....
The son in law seems to be the one in charge of the equipment and the engines are way over priced......
Near a million for a non operable Shay?
While I understand their attachment to the equipment, I can only assume they are really hurting for cash to ask such a price, after so long a time.....


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 Post subject: Re: 3' Narrow Gauge Musuem Liquidating?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:24 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 909
Hi,

It is claimed that the Ashby's price pre-Ozark was lower for the remains. Ozark has a mark-up.

I also like my surveying prof from college. He said the exact distance from A to B was the average of an infinite number of measurements. Anything else is an approximation. My statement is an approximation - anyone can read all the posts and make their own conclusions (it will still be an approximation of the truth).

Doug vV


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 Post subject: Re: 3' Narrow Gauge Musuem Liquidating?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:12 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:02 pm
Posts: 973
Location: Back in NE Ohio
I was at the Georgetown Loop in June of '97, the day before the UP Royal Gorge 844 excursion. There were quite a few fans at the GTL that day who were going on the train to SLC the following day. Several years before, Mr. Ashby and someone else, I think maybe his son (?), were traveling in the East and stumbled upon a Cass Scenic charter I was helping out on. He was able to come on the photo charter and invited any of us working the trip who were ever in Colorado to stop by and take a ride with his people. So, several years later I was and I did. He was certainly most gracious to someone he had only met once before who just dropped in unannounced. Having just finished major work on 2-8-0 #40, they were test running it that afternoon. He put me and then-Trains editor Kevin Keefe, who was also in town for the UP excursion, in the cab for the test trip around the loop. Mr. Ashby was really a nice guy and a gentleman as far as I was concerned.


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 Post subject: Re: 3' Narrow Gauge Musuem Liquidating?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:12 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5252
Location: southeastern USA
Lindsey Ashby is one of the finest gentlemen it has been my honor to work for.

dave

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 Post subject: Re: 3' Narrow Gauge Musuem Liquidating?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:24 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2431
Dougvv wrote:
Lindsey Ashby restored the GTL to operation...
Ashby started the rebuilding in the late 1960's and he and his son run the now moribund ex-D&RGW Royal Gorge SG operation out of Canyon City using F units.


I hadn't heard anything, good or bad, about that operation lately. The website makes it appear they're in operation 7 days a week with a couple of trains a day starting in May, based on the fact it seemed happy to sell me tickets for those days. Of course the website is going to make things sound wonderful but if things are slow, wouldn't they cut back on some days?


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 Post subject: Re: 3' Narrow Gauge Musuem Liquidating?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:20 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 458
Bobharbison wrote:
I hadn't heard anything, good or bad, about that operation lately.

For 32 years, the Georgetown Loop was operated by the Ashby family's Georgetown Loop Railroad, Inc.

In 2005, Railstar began operating the loop. There was a lot of bad feelings then, so most of the employees who worked for the Ashbys declined to work for Railstar. Railstar had a lot of problems. They had multiple derailments, including one caused by a driving wheel shearing off its axle. Some of these problems were documented in Jason Midyette's excellent book Colorado and Southern No. 9: One Short Season: The Ill - Fated Return to Service of A Narrow Gauge Locomotive.

During Railstar's tenure, the FRA changed its definition of "insular" so that the Georgetown Loop fell under FRA jurisdiction.

In 2009, Railstar sold the remaining years on their lease to Historic Rail Adventures LLC:
Clear Creek Courant: Railstar replaced as Loop operator: Local businessman takes over railroad (May 29, 2009)

Several of the Ashby's key employees returned to Silver Plume to work for Historic Rail Adventures LLC. They were the ones that arranged to trade #12 (a 2-6-2) to the Midwest Central Railroad in Mount Pleasant, Iowa for WSL Shay #9. They then rebuilt it so that it could withstand Loop service!

So, to answer Bob's question, the last few years have been good, but the Loop is not yet back to where it was in 2004, the last year that the Ashby's operated it.

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 Post subject: Re: 3' Narrow Gauge Musuem Liquidating?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 9:21 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 28, 2004 1:15 pm
Posts: 1260
Location: Henderson Nevada
This is not a normal moderator's warning... more of a cautionary thought... Noting that your friendly moderation is of the west with some ties to Colorado... may have worked with History Colorado at one time, and may have known at least a few of the people involved...

The Georgetown Loop story had the potential of becoming the western narrow gauge equivalent of the Steamtown discussion... and as such could become unwelcome here.

There is a lot to the story... there are good guys, and bad guys, and some who are not as good as they appear... and lots of blame... enough blame to cover a number of reputations with a thick coating of mud...

There are a lot of facts, but even more rumors... some of the rumors based on facts... others less factual.

It isn't an accident that the problems developed as so many groups were having trouble addressing new boiler rules and costs, and increasing costs of insurance, at the same time government agencies were being told to find ways to raise revenue from their assets... (and History Colorado is a State of Colorado agency... but one with some level of independence)

Add in more than one polarizing personality and things get interesting fast, and not in a good way...

Colorado has an active railroad booster community... Some preservationists, some just fans, even more modelers... Many in this diverse but passionate community is not always as informed as they believe they are, and the community has a number of forums which help incubate creative visions of what may have happened.

As your moderator, I will be following any conversion about the Loop... closely...

Randy

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 Post subject: Re: 3' Narrow Gauge Musuem Liquidating?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:22 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 909
Hi,

Thank you. I was not trying to stir things up with my first reply, just try to give a little background and point to where more could be found for those who were interested. (Current Ozark listings are not from a failed museum).

Georgia is a far way from Colorado and my view of what happened is not the best to make judgements on.

Doug vV


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 Post subject: Re: 3' Narrow Gauge Musuem Liquidating?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
Posts: 1483
Location: Southern California
Dougvv wrote:
CHS had a bunch of steel company diesels and Oahu (?) 2-6-2 #12 trying to aid the #9.
The #12 is from the Kahului Railroad on the Island of Maui.

After the Kahului I think it was briefly stored on Oahu before being shipped to California. Later it was on the operation at the Silverwood Theme Park at Athol, Idaho. Then after being offered for sale for a long time it went to the Loop. Then lease/trade with Midwest Central for one of the West Side Shays.

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 Post subject: Re: 3' Narrow Gauge Musuem Liquidating?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2015 10:55 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:41 pm
Posts: 814
Location: Bowling Green, KY
The cost of the un-restored locomotives are no less than 10 times sane worth, there is no domestic market for them. For the condition it is in I could see the 40 being worth something around 200k making it only about 8.5 times over priced.
I can't see Mr.Ashby being behind the pricing, he's too in touch with this kinda thing.

I have a feeling this is someone's way of making a point to someone else....


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 Post subject: Re: 3' Narrow Gauge Musuem Liquidating?
PostPosted: Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:09 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2431
Chris, in "answering my question" you appear to have overlooked the quote i pulled and thus missed which operation I asked about. It wasnn't about the Georgetown Loop saga (as twisted and complicated as the track there) but rather why the comment was made that the Royal Gorge Line is "moribund".


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