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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 5:12 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:20 pm
Posts: 455
Good post Hamster, but there are possibilities for operation out West:
Niles Canyon / Pacific Locomotive Association. The PSRM at Campo on the SD&A Railway.

Ultimately, what happens is up to the Alco Historical Society since it's their loco. If an Alco museum is built as planned, then I'm sure the loco will live there. That would be a good outcome obviously.

Well I've done enough yapping on this topic, so will sign off now.

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2015 10:18 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1058
Location: Pacific, MO
I had always thought that about 3 or 4 of the Niagras would been killer power on the Grand Canyon before Max sold it. In fact I think there was an effort to bring a couple up from Mexico but they weren't having it.


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 22, 2015 9:07 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:41 pm
Posts: 380
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Guys, a 4-8-4 needs space to stretch its legs. No operational locomotive like this is ever going to be a museum piece. It has to be used in its natural environment to demonstrate its heritage and value. I stand by my statement that all but 4 or 5 of these locomotives have no hope of fulfilling their purpose except as static displays. We need to realize that this is the truth of today and wake up from dreamland.


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:09 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 453
Location: Byers, Colorado
MIL GRACIAS Mr. Rock Island Lines, for your shout out to my Bone Valley back truck #6 !!!

Once again, I posted bogus info here, of course Mr Mitchell is correct in pointing out that I'd have eight toes left over after counting up the surviving NdeM Niagaras. That isn't going to stop me from proceeding to act like I know more than everybody else about the subject, as usual.

Steam Locomotive Info has it pretty much right, the useful report and excellent fotos from Thomas Kautzer are pretty much current and complete.

There are a couple things I could add. First is that NdeM deliberately sold a real nice, complete, operable 4-8-4 to us back in the late 60s. Nowadays she may be a fish out of water, and us Monday morning quarterbacks can point out that they should have left her parked under cover if we think that helps any now. But she's all we've got, and I think she's all we'll ever have north of the border. Mexican patrimony laws changed in the slightly later 60's, and exporting a steam locomotive has been against the law ever since. Period. (And, please, can anybody think of an exception ???)

If somebody had deep enough pockets, it might be possible to finance restoration and arrange operation of a QR-1 or two in Mexico, possibly on excursions south from the US border. It's all politics and finances, but there ARE several good candidates.

3030 in Zacatecas had most all the pieces on her, but looked pretty weatherbeaten in recent fotos.

3031 is certainly available and parked on live rail, but certainly ratty and missing many vital parts. I mention her here, because Steam Locomotive dot COM has this pegged correctly. She is owned by Club Amigos de Ferrocarril, and they would love to have somebody with the means and interest get involved. Steam Locomotive dot INFO has the wrong info in this case, but the confusion is easily understood. Ingeniero Francisco Lagunes arranged reprieves for the last historic pieces to escape destruction in the notorius Huehuetoca scrapyard of the NdeM, and they are parked on a track near that location. The place itself had been closed, cleaned out, and repurposed as a pasture when I was there in August 2008. Please do not call my friend's humble looking collection of old equipment a SCRAPYARD.

3033 was the best of the bunch toward the end, and she was almost purchased by a private party before National Patrimony laws were applied to steam locomotives. The NdeM returned his deposit and monies paid, and 3033 was then used as a stationary boiler at the Auguascalientes shop complex after the end of steam. I was told that when the FNM was broken up and privatized, they disconected the stationary steam lines, serviced the air brake system, touched up the paint, and ran her for a beer commercial. I have never seen any fotos or videos to substantiate this. However, I HAVE seen photographic proof of the rest of the story, which is that the engine was then stripped of bronze and brass fittings and appliances, so getting her operational now would be a lot bigger job.

3034 was the last Niagara in excursion service, now she's in the Puebla Museum. Deep pockets, anybody ???

3038 in Chapultapec Park, was displayed with the 5 car presidential train of the republic, and the museum had a branchline connecting them to the outside world. The exhibit was getting kind of gross looking, so the TFM went in there and cleaned everything up and painted it at their expense. Only thing is that they used a dignified solid grey color, and put their logo on the tender. One of my buddies that lived nearby said it looked real nice, but everybody raised Hell because it wasn't the original NdeM colors and logos and lettering. I tried to tell folks we should be happy, that corrossion is permanent, but paint is temporary. I said we ought to be glad the railroad WANTED their logo on there, and I was one of very few to contact them and THANK THEM. They took out the branchline shortly thereafter...

3040 !!! My favorite for personal reasons, she's on live rail at the tail of the wye in Oriental, because they were afraid to move her the rest of the way to Xalapa on the ratty track of the former narrow gauge route. She sat and rotted for awhile, then the folks living around her decided to clean her up and paint her, so she is now a MONUMENT. It's too bad about the massive staybolts or else giant welded up ends all over the side sheet on the fireman's side, not to mention all the missing parts. I just tried to attach my Christmas card foto from last year, by Juan Villadrosa, of her lit up for the season, but no dice. Trust me, it's a lovely sight. I wouldn't misinform anybody...

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:27 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2012 8:47 pm
Posts: 475
I know nobody likes to hear it, but if you're looking for a place where a 4-8-4 could stretch her legs on the East Coast, there is always Steamtown...

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Mark Z. Yerkes
Amateur Rail Historian


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:34 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
Forgive me for being so blunt, but other than its being a steam locomotive, this entire restoration never caught my enthusiasm. I'm not certain why. I'd much rather have seen the money and effort go into NH&I'd ex-CNR #1533.

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5260
Location: southeastern USA
Possibly because 1533 had an operating history on the NH&I, and it was of a good size for their operation. Someplace I have photos I took in the late 1960s of a roofless cinderblock enginehouse with the NH&I steamers inside.

I think the location of the 4-8-4 was for reasons of availabiity for low cost and convenience rather than for historic or operational consideration. Still, it is fairly well protected there, and perhaps if there's a plan for it somebody might share it.

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:46 pm 
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Posts: 1906
Location: Pac NW, via North Florida
This link showing that 4-8-4 makes me wonder if the other ones on their site are all that accurate as this one suggests the area is totally abandoned when in fact we both know it’s just loco storage: http://www.urbanghostsmedia.com/2014/03/rusting-steam-engines-new-hope-and-ivyland-railroad/

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:59 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:20 pm
Posts: 455
QJDriver,
Thanks for the insights and that interesting summary.

I was not aware of this fact:
QJDriver wrote:
Mexican patrimony laws changed in the slightly later 60's, and exporting a steam locomotive has been against the law ever since. Period. (And, please, can anybody think of an exception ???)
Interesting, and if that's the case then chances of moving another one to the US are indeed slim!

I guess we'll have to hope that the one captive on the NH&I finds its way to a group that is warm-hearted towards an immigrant loco from Mexico. Not sure anyone in the NE has that kind of feeling about it (see posts here from Richard G as evidence). It might find some enthusiastic friends out West though, but who knows.


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
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Location: southeastern USA
First, we need to have a need for a running 4-8-4, then we need to convince the owners to fill that need. Go for it.

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:20 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:45 pm
Posts: 15
Anybody know what happened to and the status of #40? It`s been down again for a long time.


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 7:38 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 453
Location: Byers, Colorado
The understanding I had with the AH&TS when I signed on, is that they wanted to restore NdeM 3028 as NdeM 3028, so I agreed to help. At the moment I'm helping by waiting patiently for my superiors to tell me what I can say.

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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 1:42 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:15 pm
Posts: 137
Location: At large
Sammy and all

The future of this locomotive is still being worked out. We have talked to several groups that have an interest in operating the locomotive, plus it is still possible it stays in New Hope and is used there. We took on the locomotive to continue the preservation started by the Great North East Railroad Foundation, the original owners. At this point in time our group is not large enough to take on the restoration of the locomotive ourselves so we will be looking to partner with a railroad or group that will restore and operate it. I have remained quiet to this point because we are only in the absolute beginning stages of this project and there is little to report. I have decided to chime in because of the sudden out poor of comments and I will happily answer any questions, keeping in mind that as I stated there is little to report.

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ALCO Historical & Technical Society


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 4:41 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1607
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
As a very part time loco. engineer at the NH&I I can report that # 40 is in the shop for some extensive running gear overhauls and is slowly being finished. Priority has been given of late to substantially upgrading the coach fleet and that work has progressed well.

I'm told that the objective is to try to have # 40 back in service by Santa Season and I hope they make it as the North Pole Express needs steam on the head end to be complete.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: NdeM 3028 Status?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 25, 2015 7:21 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:45 pm
Posts: 15
Thank you for the reply Mr. Rowland, I hope it`s running for then, I`ll be there to see you for a cab ride if it is, Drew Young


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