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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 10:11 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2075
I'm responding to a deleted thread, I had to think about it, if UP wants to strip/re-inspect the engine/re-staybolt cap etc etc to make sure their never retired engine is in pristine and safe condition, let them.

no more.

next post please.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 6:30 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 710
dinwitty wrote:
I'm responding to a deleted thread, I had to think about it, if UP wants to strip/re-inspect the engine/re-staybolt cap etc etc to make sure their never retired engine is in pristine and safe condition, let them.

no more.

next post please.


You are correct, there is nothing to stop them.

But why just do it every 8 years?

Why not every year?


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:34 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 421
Location: Floyd, AR
because it takes 2, i mean 3, i mean 10 years to do it?

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Board Member, Cotton Belt Rail Historical Society, Arkansas Railroad Museum, steam engine SSW819.
Any information or opinions I express are my own, and are not the views of the CBRHS or anyone else, unless explicitly stated otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:58 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:33 pm
Posts: 284
Location: Oroville, CA
You Bad!! But correct. . . .
So what about the rumor that the Glass House wants the 844 out by the end of the year?

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Write your congressman to support and co-sponsor House Resolution HR-619. This bill only grants her permission to run; there is no cost to us taxpayers.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 6:20 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2007 12:45 am
Posts: 457
Some news out of Cheyenne:
Wyoming Tribute-Eagle: Federal judge dismisses discrimination case against Union Pacific (Saturday, Jun 27, 2015)

An excerpt:
Quote:
CHEYENNE (WTE) - A federal judge decided earlier this month that a lawsuit filed against Union Pacific Railroad alleging one of its employees here sexually harassed and retaliated against his administrative assistant did not need to go to trial.

U.S. District Court Chief Judge Nancy Freudenthal granted the defense's motion for summary judgment on June 18. That means she ruled in favor of the railroad and dismissed the claims with prejudice so they cannot be re-filed.

and a second article:
Wyoming Tribute-Eagle: Union Pacific Railroad cleared of misconduct (Saturday, Jun 27, 2015)

An excerpt, that provides an update on a second lawsuit:
Quote:
There also has been court action recently in a separate complaint filed in the U.S. District Court of Wyoming against Union Pacific naming Dickens. That claim, by Henry Krening, says Dickens caused him so much stress that he now suffers from diabetes.

Krening's case stalled for more than a year but remained active. On June 9, U.S. District Judge Alan Johnson denied a motion filed by Union Pacific asking for the case to be dismissed. Updates on that case will be provided as they become available.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 2:44 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 895
Mr. Wilkins had been kind enough to post a link to the text of the original discrimination complaint in another thread -- he might re-post that link here so we have context.

Quote:
U.S. District Court Chief Judge Nancy Freudenthal granted the defense's motion for summary judgment on June 18. That means she ruled in favor of the railroad and dismissed the claims with prejudice so they cannot be re-filed.


Can Mr. Wilkins provide a link to the text of Freudenthal's action, and perhaps comment on what has taken place here?

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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:07 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 710
For whatever reason, much of the firebox installed in 844 back in the early 2000s had been cut out and will be replaced. The claim is that it was "corroded to the point it would never pass an FRA UT inspection." This overlooks the fact that FRA does not do UT inspections.

It is also notable that there are no photos of the corroded sheets are available, as they were moved to a local scrap yard and shredded within minutes of removal. The same tactic was used in the replacement of two sections of the mudring several years ago.

All of the firebox from just below the firedoor hole down to the top of the mudring has been cut out and scrapped, along with several hundred staybolts, which were also new in the early 2000s.

After new patches have been installed, the plan is to then cut out and scrap the wrapper sheet from the door hole down to the mudring, replacing that with new material.

It is difficult to refute that this damage, if indeed it exists, was not caused by the highly corrosive feedwater that resulted from the inadequate water treatment regimen established in 2011.

It is also claimed that 10,000 separate UT readings were taken on the shell and firebox.

Zero work has been done to either 3985 or 4014.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:40 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1055
Location: Pacific, MO
I just have to shake my head at some of the news from out there.
It would have been nice to see the pieces removed from 844 before they were sped away to the scrapper. If it were something that the "old crew" could have been blamed for, it would prominently be on display. I'm amazed at all of the ''busy work" that has gone on for the last 3-4 years with no results other than carloads of money spent, carloads of tools and materials thrown away, records thrown away and the shop being turned upside down. The turnover in help has been huge, the qualified people there are next to none and nothing is going on.
I'm wondering if the water treatment used was responsible for the massive buildup of scale on the tubes and flues and the attempt to burn diesel fuel in the engine caused the firebox sheet damage? If it did that to the boiler, then what does the inside of the tender and aux water cars look like?
I would like to see photos of the inside of 3985's boiler. I would bet the scale problem in there wouldn't exist. It hasn't been run since Steve Lee left, so it would be a good benchmark.
I'm 1000 miles away and have not seen anything but photos, but have monitored what has been posted by numerous sources close by and think that many people can't all be wrong.
It's as if the Steam Program was taken over by Congress.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:29 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:41 pm
Posts: 377
Location: Minneapolis, MN
You guys must be crazier than I ever gave you credit for. Remember, UP is not under any obligation to tell ANYONE outside the company what they are doing, whether it is repairing track or repairing steam locomotives. We can bitch and moan about it all we want, but it won't change anything. Further, we must remember that whatever else it is,UP is a FOR PROFIT company with its eyes firmly on the bottom line. They aren't going to just throw away $70,000-$100,000 for these kinds of repairs without some very thorough justification. With that kind of expenditure, UP management is showing everyone that it is serious about supporting its steam program. It is time for us to all step back and let the guys do the work. We will find out soon enough whether they know what they are doing or not.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:40 pm 

Joined: Fri Jul 23, 2010 12:41 pm
Posts: 377
Location: Minneapolis, MN
By the way, I have not seen anyone post the number of service days the 844 saw before it went into the shop. Does anyone know? Being under steam 3 days per week (whether the loco moves an inch or not) will burn through 1472 service days in a little less than 9-1/2 years. 4 service days per week requires the FRA inspection after just 7 years. Makes the current overhaul seem a little more reasonable, especially if they were indeed having water troubles. Remember, 844 has been the ONLY locomotive actively campaigning all over the western half of the country, taking water wherever it happened to be. That includes areas in the West and Southwest where the water is known to be problematic. If the maximum service is to be achieved, the diligent application of a very sophisticated and flexible water analysis and treatment program is required. I suspect that the UP steam gurus have learned a valuable lesson about water treatment.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:09 pm
Posts: 298
I dont know a thing about water programs, but the photos of those tubes, were downright scary.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:48 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 710
hamster wrote:
By the way, I have not seen anyone post the number of service days the 844 saw before it went into the shop. Does anyone know? Being under steam 3 days per week (whether the loco moves an inch or not) will burn through 1472 service days in a little less than 9-1/2 years. 4 service days per week requires the FRA inspection after just 7 years. Makes the current overhaul seem a little more reasonable, especially if they were indeed having water troubles. Remember, 844 has been the ONLY locomotive actively campaigning all over the western half of the country, taking water wherever it happened to be. That includes areas in the West and Southwest where the water is known to be problematic. If the maximum service is to be achieved, the diligent application of a very sophisticated and flexible water analysis and treatment program is required. I suspect that the UP steam gurus have learned a valuable lesson about water treatment.


It had less than 400 total service days since the last 1,472, which included a new firebox. It had accumulated 8 years of service. No way did it run "3 or 4 days a week."

UP is not required to tell us anything, but we can see and we can hear. And this is far more than a penny-ante $70k repair job. This is easily going to be a million if not more.

UP had very well documented and very successful water testing and treatment, boiler blowdown, and boiler wash programs. All of which were discarded in 2011. The tubes and flues themselves and the ton of scale, mud and debris shoveled out of that boiler show how well that "improvement" worked. Maybe it wasn't a ton; but it was enough to fill the bucket of a skid-steer 3+ times. Then there is the mess of deep red water that came out of the injector overflow every time the injector was started.


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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:41 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:20 pm
Posts: 446
Lincoln Penn wrote:
...
It is also notable that there are no photos of the corroded sheets are available, as they were moved to a local scrap yard and shredded within minutes of removal. The same tactic was used in the replacement of two sections of the mudring several years ago.
...

The expression I Iearned on Rypn is, "celebrate in public, crap in private."

[Edit - to clarify, UP publicly celebrated the Big Boy, but started to scrap things from 844 in private. Hmm, makes you wonder what they're hiding.]


Last edited by rock island lines on Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:36 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:20 pm
Posts: 446
(Deleted no longer relevant explanation. ..)


Last edited by rock island lines on Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: U.P. Steam Shop status of steam fleet?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:09 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 20, 2015 7:16 pm
Posts: 5
This water-side damage to the boiler is evidence of either complete stupidity, "Not Made Over Here"-syndrome, or a combination of both. The French developed a system called TIA which reduced water side boiler damage to minimal levels, and Porta developed his system with which washouts were reduced to once a year on the worst water districts possible. Both resulted in boiler tubes and flues lasting in excess of 30 years of continual service, without replacement.


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