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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:28 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1604
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
Great news !! Andy must be taking the advice of the hostess on STRANGE INHERITANCE that ""you can't take it with you".

With the resources at the R&N there's no doubt this will get done and in a timely manner.

Sure will be good to see a T hog back to life.

Thanks Andy, Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3724
Location: Maine
This is most gratifying. Nice to hear official information from the person in a position to know!

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 9:50 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:03 pm
Posts: 718
6-18003 wrote:
nathansixchime wrote:
SteamPWR wrote:
The 425 has 7 years left on the clock. I can tell you his decision to work on the 2102 has nothing to do with the happenings of the 2100.


Perhaps so, but that doesn't necessarily explain away the interest in acquiring the 2100 when it was discovered that ASR would be moving it.

KL


Are you saying that Andy was interested in buying the 2100?


Yes, after ASR's involvement became known. The timing may not be 100% coincidental, but the preservation community stands to win twice over.


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 1:25 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:27 pm
Posts: 111
Location: Flat Rock, MI
Upon reading today's announcement, it really says something for American steam preservation. It seems, as T.E.P said so correctly, that in the Eastern steam preservation circles, there has been quite a bit of the "Nope, not gonna happen...." going around since the end of the NS program in the 90's. Then in 2015 we saw: 611 restored, 765 come east, 26 come back to life at Steamtown, 1361's boiler come back to Altoona, 2100 come out of retirement and begin the road to restoration, and now in 2016 we have so far: 2102 coming out of her slumber, BM 3713 begin her road back to steam, and in the west the possible return of UP 844.

Eastern steam is in a renaissance, and I am happy to say, it's about darn time! Can't wait to get out and support all these renewed steam groups as we all should.

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:23 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 1676
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Congrats to Mr. Muller and the RBMN crew on moving forward with returning the #2102 to service!

Over on Trainorders, Wes Camp wrote a post regarding hunting of the valve gear on the Reading T1 class:

On Sunday, January 10th, 2015, wcamp1472 wrote:
On a technical note--

This applies to all extant RDG 4-8-4s: it would be nice if someone would would apply a counterweight scheme,or a counterbalance spring, to the valve gear rock-shafts (that support the radius rod at the reverse link) of the Walschaerts valve gear. The RDG original remanufacture of the engines omitted a scheme to balance this critical shaft.

What happens is -- that while underway, the weight of the two radius bars causes the bars to droop at the reverse link, and drag the power reverse piston slightly forward. This activates the power reverser's self-centering valve to move the shaft back to its original setting. The valve event timing drifts lower in the Walschaerts link, to a longer admission point, using greater steam, before the reverse gear re-corrects the valves back to the intended cutoff-point.

This sets-up a constant, slow cycle, hunting of the valve gear -- you can hear the change at the stack as they roll down the track. The chuffs deepen at varying rates while rolling along. The chuffs at the stack should be even in loudness, not varying in intensity from soft chuffs to loud barks, then back to soft chuffs...

On the 2102, the RDG mechanics attempted to remedy the imbalance by brazing a small plug at the ports of the reverse gear's slide valve seat ( inside the reverse gear housing). Instead of helping, it made the problem worse: by lengthening the port distance, it makes the droop get WAY out-of-whack -- before the re-centering action is activated.

When 'parked' and the air goes down, the rock shaft always sags -- allowing the radius bars to sag to the bottom of the reverse links. Even though the the reverse lever in the cab is pinned in the center of the reverse quadrant.

It's a fine point, but it DOES affect the the running and firing of the engines -- it would be a clever mechanic that could rig up the shaft with an ingenious balancing arrangement, while also removing the brazed bits from the modified valve ports.

Now is [the] time [to] correct that original design omission, if the engines are being rebuilt.

Wes C.


As the restorations of both the #2102 and #2100 are now underway, are either one of the crews looking at possible remedies for this hunting?

Trainorders thread: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,3932322

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:15 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:34 am
Posts: 419
Location: Port Jefferson, NY (LIRR MP 57.5)
What a fascinating post, Ted! Thank you for sharing Wes's comments.

-Philip Marshall


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:27 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5251
Location: southeastern USA
Fascinating, yes, but it would remove one of the defining characteristics that makes a T hog a T hog. Keep the historical mistakes that don't result in a loss of safety or reliability - they won't cost much in efficiency in the larger scheme of things.

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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:46 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:27 pm
Posts: 93
Location: Vt
You forgot C&O 1309 at Western Maryland Scenic, back in steam this year.

Alan

2100 and 2102 back in steam....fantastic!


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 12:12 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:03 pm
Posts: 718
Rainier Rails wrote:
As the restorations of both the #2102 and #2100 are now underway, are either one of the crews looking at possible remedies for this hunting?

Trainorders thread: http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?10,3932322

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.


2100's hunting will likely be addressed with the addition of a balancing arm attached to the tumbling shaft at an appropriate location on the right side of locomotive. A bracket will be installed upon which the balancing spring will bear and a connecting rod will be fabricated. It'll require some additional engineering work, but will likely solve the issue.

The 2100 group has been in touch with Wes, but I don't think that'll be the end of his contributions by way of advice and insight.


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:10 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 107
Having two Reading T1's back in steam is a dream come true.

I do have to ask though, Since the tender behind 2100 is the original 2101 tender burned in the fire, it was restored with new sheet metal. Why couldn't 2101 herself be restored?

She was for sale not long ago if I remember correctly?

Ross, What if any serious damage was there to the Chessie Steam Special 2101 from the 1979 fire?


My dream double header would be Reading 2124 and CPR 3101. But that is another topic for another day.

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 11:37 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:50 pm
Posts: 365
Robert,

Someone else can correct me if I'm wrong, but 2101 has never been for sale since being placed in the B&O RR Museum.

I have also been told by a friend who was a volunteer in Cincinnati with the AFT and CSS and were at the roundhouse before the embers cooled, that 2101 was not damaged beyond repair by the fire. She was replaced with 614 purely as the result of a mutual agreement between Ross and Hays T. Watkins. Ross, is that an accurate account?

Rob Gardner
American Steam Railroad Preservation, Inc.


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 5:56 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3031
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
BigBoy 4023 wrote:
Having two Reading T1's back in steam is a dream come true. . . .

My dream double header would be Reading 2124 and CPR 3101. But that is another topic for another day.

Robert


Want even more foam? How about the eventual restoration of the Lackawanna line all the way to Scranton (it's been discussed and is partially underway)--and to inaugurate the new commuter service, 2100, 2102, and 2124 (and maybe 3101) handle the trains for the first month or so, standing in for their DL&W counterparts. . .

Now, where can we find enough dark green, riveted, twelve-wheeled passenger cars to make up the coach fleet for that inaugural?

Hey, dreams don't cost anything . . .

Oh, one thing that could make the 2124 an attractive restoration candidate is that she's one of the later T-1s, the last existing one in fact, with all roller bearing axles.


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:45 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1604
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
We did an in depth analysis of the damage the 2101 suffered in the roundhouse fire at Stevens Ky. and concluded that it was near impossible to judge how much ( if any) damage had been done to the machine in the intense heat ( which buckled the side sheets on the tender as the coal burned in it) and it was our conclusion that for the money it would take to restore the 2101 to running shape we could apply those funds to the much more modern C&O 614 and end up with a superior engine for the long term.

At that time the CEO of Chessie System ( which became today's CSX) Mr. Hays T. Watkins was a strong supporter of the steam powered PR efforts being out forward by the railroad and readily agreed that restoring the 614 was the way to go. He and I made a deal wherein Chessie would swap titles to the 614 for the 2101, we ( Iron Horse Enterprises,Inc.) would cosmetically restore the 2101 to how she looked as AFT # 1 and Chessie would contribute $ 100,000.00 towards the 614's restoration and IHE would fund the balance. 15 months later and with an investment of $ 1.1M ( 1980 dollars, about $ 4.0M 2016 dollars) she rolled out of the shop in Hagerstown ready for service.



The transition from a plain bearing engine to an all roller bearing machine was far greater than any of us realized. After years of constantly laboring to keep the T-1's main bearings within operating temperature range it was like going to heaven with the 614 in that we'd service the rollers on the running gear on Friday before a weekends running and not have to touch them again until the following week.





We swapped titles with the B&O museum in 1979 and the 2101 has been their property since. Sadly she has been a very low priority item with them and has been allowed to deteriorate badly in cosmetic condition. Hopefully one day soon she'll get her BADLY OVERDUE paint job?? Hope springs eternal !!!

Thanks, Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:52 pm 

Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 1:40 am
Posts: 107
Ross, Thanks for the explination on the 2101. I've been a supporter of restoring RDG 2124 for some time because she has roller bearings and is the only T1 that has not ran in a long time.

CPR used to run through the town I grew up in the hills of NE PA. It was the old D&H mainline and CPR was operating it when I was a kid. Now it is all CSX and NS through there.

Having grown up around the CPR and seeing 2816 a couple of times along with the Reading T1 and other CPR steam at steam town, I have been a fan of CPR steam since I was like 6 or 7 years old. Since there was only two CPR 4-8-4's ever built it would be nice to have one back in steam and 3101 would be my pick since she is owned by a large steel company that could at a whim cut her up for scrap since she looks like heck now.

For RF foam. I would vote for the UP #6925 to be rebuilt from two SD40-2's. There's enough of them either wreck damaged or going to scrap to supply the major components for the UP DDA40X. UP #6925 is a survivor and so gets my pick for most deserved diesel restoration.

Afterall, If one DDA40X is fun than two is a blast!

Robert


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 Post subject: Re: The Return of RDG 2102
PostPosted: Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:50 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:27 pm
Posts: 111
Location: Flat Rock, MI
So Mr. Rowland, with today's current inspection techniques for steam locomotives, could the problems (if any that occurred because of the fire) be found by ultrasonic inspection of the boiler and chassis?

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