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 Post subject: Re: CNJ/DL&W #99 recent image
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:15 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2364
Sandy, is that the DL&W business car in Ohio that ye speak of?

The thing about #99 is that any passion for it transcends the reality of fire and vandalism. It was Perry's car... arguably the last great executive involved with a traditional anthracite railroad (though I am open to a 3 or 4 pint discussion over whether or not Bruce Sterzing actually gets that title).

Shoemaker was a true railroader, a friend of preservation & history and icon in DL&W and CNJ lore.

It's incredible his car made it to this decade. I doubt there will ever be enough interest in a Perry Shoemaker Society to purchase and renovate her, but it would be a fitting tribute.

Rob


Last edited by robertjohndavis on Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CNJ/DL&W #99 recent image
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:17 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Somewhere between Baltimore, MD and Prescott, AZ
robertjohndavis wrote:
Sandy, is that the DL&W business car in Ohio that ye speak of?


Nope.


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 Post subject: Re: CNJ/DL&W #99 recent image
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:35 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3842
Location: Maine
You would start with a shovel and heavy duty vacuum cleaner. The broken glass is micro-fine. The kitchen is the least damaged, but the bronze trim is twisted, snapped off, and bent. All the lights and windows are broken. Somebody collected as much brass and stainless trim from the broken up bedrooms and placed it in a box. The sinks are intact and most of the interior plumbing on one end of the car is intact, although switch panels and obvious sources of copper have been "jimmied" open. Most of the copper wire remains, as these thieves were lazy, and just destroyed stuff to determine access. about 65% of the mahogany paneling is charred or splintered or simply shattered beyond salvation. The entire car is covered in thick soot. Carpets remain, but destroyed. glassware cabinets and storage furnishings are mostly intact, but taken apart. Doors were force and warped/bent out of shape. Door fixtures are charred, bent, missing, scattered. Speedometer remains intact. Lead (?) paint is hanging in sheets. Sills are fairly shot.
It's better than a burned out mobile home, but that's about where it ends. There is some terrific salvage in the car, but it would require absolute, complete, disassembly, inventory of parts, major cleaning of parts, then replating or replacement. I could see a devoted man with only this to dedicate his life, every day and night of the next twenty-five years, and everything in his retirement, plowing into this. One might get it almost, ready as a summer camp.
Now a group with experience, money, resources, money, and money might bring her back for a tourist line. She would be an easier conversion to an open air car on the rear of a tourist train, but I know that's heretical talk for a car with such a history.

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Last edited by Richard Glueck on Thu Aug 07, 2014 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CNJ/DL&W #99 recent image
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 7:57 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:17 pm
Posts: 516
Location: Scranton, PA
Rob,

Not sure if this is the car being hinted at a few posts up, but EL #2 is alive and well in PA and sees occasional use. See our friend Tim's pictures from April of 2014 at:

http://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/topic/midweek-photos-4-30-2014?reply=29305391708102698#29305391708102698

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 Post subject: Re: CNJ/DL&W #99 recent image
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:58 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:38 am
Posts: 926
Don't forget the Federal, another ex DL&W business car, that was at the AAPRCO convention.

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=1828445
(Photo from 2009)

Joshua

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 Post subject: Re: CNJ/DL&W #99 recent image
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 10:40 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2364
It seems we are left with:
#97 in Minerva, OH
#98 known as EL#2 in Northumberland.
#99 waiting for help in Derby, ME
The two Pheoe Snow bob tails exist.
"Federal" roams the rails but what was its number on the DL&W?

All the best,

Rob

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 Post subject: Re: CNJ/DL&W #99 recent image
PostPosted: Fri Aug 08, 2014 11:42 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:38 am
Posts: 926
Per a recent post related to the APRRCO Convention, looks like have a little of a conflict, perhaps there was a second 98?

"#800713 DL&W business car #98 "Federal" owned by Dave Luca. One of two business cars constructed in 1911 by Pullman in Lot #3812 to Plan #2492, the other being the "National". The "Federal" was sold to DL&W in 1933, and the "National" was scrapped in 1953. The "National" was sold to Ringling Bros. at an unknown date and was later resold to Dave Luca. The car met Amtrak specifications in 2002."

Joshua

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 Post subject: Re: CNJ/DL&W #99 recent image
PostPosted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 10:17 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:37 pm
Posts: 216
Ah, the "Belford" 99 -- a car with a most storied past!

But first some historical background on the DL&W's business cars: When Perry Shoemaker was the DL&W General Superintendent, he used car 97 (originally named "Scranton") and as V.P. he used the "Anthracite." As President he used car 99, formerly the "Pocono." In 1940 DL&W President William White did away with names and numbering of the business car fleet. Car 97 was originally from the Nevada Northern Ry. Car 98 was the Vice President's car ("Anthracite") and later used by both the V.P.-Traffic and V.P.-Operations. Car 99 was used by President Shoemaker from 1952-1960 and as Chairman of the E-L from 1960-March 1962. In March 1962, Shoemaker became President and later Trustee of the CNJ at which time used used car 99, which was sold to that railroad for $1.00. Car 99 was equipped with a Baker heater for use on a freight train.

Shortly after the CNJ entered bankruptcy in 1967, car 99 was sold to Peter Bell, a Minnesota native who was a substantial owner of Pillsbury. He used the car for a year or two but decided to get married. His new wife was not happy about married life on a railroad business car so Mr. Bell presented it to the Smithsonian Institution in 1969, presumably as a tax deduction. The car was stored in the Washington passenger yards at Union Station during much of the 1970s and suffered from some vandalism. S. Dillon Ripley, then Secretary of the SI, used the car for a time as transportation to and from his Connecticut home. SI disposed of the car in the early 1980s to a stillborn transportation museum in Pittsburgh. Its life since then has been feast and famine and it is a miracle that it even still exists. Let's hope this story has a happy ending.

-K.R. Bell


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 Post subject: Re: CNJ/DL&W #99 recent image
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 9:05 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3842
Location: Maine
The car has roller bearing equipped, six-wheel trucks. I can see how a talented, well-equipped, group of individuals could bring her back. It would take a crew like the "Minersville Miracle" guys to strip her out, abate the paint, then carefully replace and rebuild, section by section. There remains plenty of original material in need of cleaning and replating. It could be done. The owner needs to recognize the "knife-edge" upon which the car is precariously balanced at this time.

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 Post subject: Re: CNJ/DL&W #99 recent image
PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 10:45 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2364
Richard Glueck wrote:
The car has roller bearing equipped, six-wheel trucks. I can see how a talented, well-equipped, group of individuals could bring her back. It would take a crew like the "Minersville Miracle" guys to strip her out, abate the paint, then carefully replace and rebuild, section by section. There remains plenty of original material in need of cleaning and replating. It could be done. The owner needs to recognize the "knife-edge" upon which the car is precariously balanced at this time.



I like the connection to a "Minersville Miracle" as those good folks have their own abused
CNJ business car.

Most of us here on RYPN have our hands tied up in one project or another. It is hard to find new folks without other commitmet.

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Rob


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 Post subject: Re: CNJ/DL&W #99 recent image
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 8:24 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 3:47 pm
Posts: 4
Old post - new information: Car is being advertised for sale in the March 2016 issue of TRAINS magazine - in the classified section. Bob Havens


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 Post subject: Re: CNJ/DL&W #99 recent image
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3842
Location: Maine
The car which initialized this thread remains at Derby. It has r/b trucks and a lot of nice features under all the rubble inside. Sadly a less pleasant feature is the asbestos insulation. The car is probably a good parts source for restoration of a different "classic". If an offer was made, the owner might be ready to get serious about salvage value.

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 Post subject: Re: CNJ/DL&W #99 recent image
PostPosted: Wed Nov 23, 2016 10:31 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8597
Location: Somewhere between Baltimore, MD and Prescott, AZ
Update(?):

It is being reported online that this car has been purchased by Norfolk Southern for conversion to a track geometry car.

Take that with appropriate grains of salt.

UPDATE UPDATE:

Back-channel confirmation of this highly improbable scenario has been received from a reliable source.


Last edited by Alexander D. Mitchell IV on Thu Nov 24, 2016 9:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: CNJ/DL&W #99 recent image
PostPosted: Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:29 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 1682
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Dave Crosby wrote:
Not sure if this is the car being hinted at a few posts up, but EL #2 is alive and well in PA and sees occasional use.
Joshua K. Blay wrote:
Don't forget the Federal, another ex DL&W business car, that was at the AAPRCO convention
robertjohndavis wrote:
It seems we are left with:
#97 in Minerva, OH
#98 known as EL#2 in Northumberland.
#99 waiting for help in Derby, ME
The two Pheoe Snow bob tails exist.
"Federal" roams the rails but what was its number on the DL&W?
Joshua K. Blay wrote:
Per a recent post related to the APRRCO Convention, looks like have a little of a conflict, perhaps there was a second 98?

"#800713 DL&W business car #98 "Federal" owned by Dave Luca. One of two business cars constructed in 1911 by Pullman in Lot #3812 to Plan #2492, the other being the "National". The "Federal" was sold to DL&W in 1933, and the "National" was scrapped in 1953. The "National" was sold to Ringling Bros. at an unknown date and was later resold to Dave Luca. The car met Amtrak specifications in 2002."
K.R. Bell wrote:
But first some historical background on the DL&W's business cars: When Perry Shoemaker was the DL&W General Superintendent, he used car 97 (originally named "Scranton") and as V.P. he used the "Anthracite." As President he used car 99, formerly the "Pocono." In 1940 DL&W President William White did away with names and numbering of the business car fleet. Car 97 was originally from the Nevada Northern Ry. Car 98 was the Vice President's car ("Anthracite") and later used by both the V.P.-Traffic and V.P.-Operations.

I had the former Pullman pool business car Federal as going to DL&W as the Pocono, then changed to #98, to EL, to Ringling Brothers, to Dave Luca as #800713 Federal. But, according to the above quoted info, DL&W Anthracite/#98/EL #2 is in Northumberland, PA. So, as Joshua asked, were there 2 cars which were numbered as #98? A first #98, the ex-Pocono, nee-Pullman Federal (which was sold to Ringling Brothers), and a second #98, the ex-Anthracite (which later became EL #2)? And if the Federal was indeed sold to the DL&W as the Pocono, then it conflicts with the #99 being the ex-Pocono. To add even more confusion, according to Jerry LaBoda's website, the Nevada Northern #100, which later became #97, was initially sold to the DL&W as the Anthracite, and was later renamed to Scranton. So that's 2 #98's, 2 Anthracites, and 2 Poconos. I take this to mean that the Lackawanna rearranged the names at a yet unknown date? Can anyone clear up this confusion? Thanks in advance!

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 Post subject: Re: CNJ/DL&W #99 recent image
PostPosted: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:15 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8597
Location: Somewhere between Baltimore, MD and Prescott, AZ
Further reports online indicate car is now registered with UMLER and stencils as NS 35, en route to either Roanoke or Altoona.....

FURTHER Update: "NS 35" is a temporay number for shipment, because NS 99, an RCP4 "remote control platform" rebuilt from a PC GP38, is stioll in service at Deshler, Ohio. Long-range plans supposedly include restoring both name and number to Belford 99.

Photo shows the car in early December in Derby, Maine at the Central Maine & Quebec shops being readied for shipment.


Attachments:
20161202 NS 35 Dertby Maine.jpg
20161202 NS 35 Dertby Maine.jpg [ 88.85 KiB | Viewed 1495 times ]


Last edited by Alexander D. Mitchell IV on Thu Dec 29, 2016 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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