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 Post subject: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:22 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2011 11:27 pm
Posts: 111
Location: Flat Rock, MI
Yet another return to steam project just announced within the last hour on Facebook. We are really in the new steam renaissance. 2 C&O (2716 and 1309), N&W 611, PM 1225, Nickle Plate 765, CNJ 113, RBMN 425, 2 Reading (2100 and 2102), BLW 26, SP 4449, SP&S 700, 3 SOU (610, 630, and 4501) and ATSF 3751 and a few other steam locomotives all once again operational or in the process to return to steam. Simply awe inspiring.

Quote:
The Kentucky Steam Heritage Corporation (KSHCO) is excited to announce the campaign to bring former C&O steam locomotive #2716 back to life. Once refurbished, the engine will be one of the most powerful steam locomotives in the world and will be the only operating survivor of its kind. Our objective is to restore the locomotive to operation by the year 2020.


Their website: http://www.kentuckysteam.org/

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 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:18 am 

Oh man, the laundry list of reasons this is not going to work......


  
 
 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 9:43 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1043
Location: Youngstown, OH
Oh please don't let this become another "tearitallapartandthenrunoutofmoneyanddleaveitadismantledwreck" project!

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 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:13 am 

Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2011 12:07 pm
Posts: 964
Location: Leicester, MA.
I'll maintain some optimism. I've seen Soboczynski's name attached to a few other projects, so there's some good mechanical know-how there... It'll just be a matter of funding.

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 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 10:14 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5250
Location: southeastern USA
I wish them the best of luck - they are starting with a known quantity in recent excursion service, and are building a business plan based on sustainability - all good. I'd certainly like to see an official indication of the host railroad's openness to operating excursions prominent on their web site.

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 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 11:30 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:08 pm
Posts: 252
Location: Amherst, Oh
One interesting thing from the article linked is they listed the ages of some of the members who are involved. Those ages were 34, 37, and 38. There's always talk about how to get younger people involved and who the next generation of steam people are going to be - it sounds like that generation is starting to get involved more.


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 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:22 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:31 pm
Posts: 236
Jeff Lisowski wrote:


Being you are listed as the "Secretary" of the group, I find it odd that you would just "find" an article on-line about your group. LOL !

Tim Wilson


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 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:27 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3719
Location: Maine
Don't initiate discussion with gloom and doom. Restoration is a darned difficult hill to climb and these folk need encouragement, not hindrance. If they appear to be approaching this with the absolutes in place (where to run it, cooperation of community, etc.), give them a pat on the back and slip them a few bucks. They may fail this round, but if they don't try, the locomotive remains dead.

We certainly could love a C&O Kanawha back in steam.

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 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 12:30 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 270
Someone asked in the thread about the all welded one C&O Berk, which is the best Kanawah to restore - this one is it. The firebox problems that bedeviled her in her brief tenure with the Southern Steam Program were fixed. Heck she'd have run past 1996 had the tube time not expired.

The part I find interesting is that the L&N 152 also owned by KRM is being assessed for operation as well. Different projects but they will chase the same demand and resources.


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 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 1:15 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 5:10 pm
Posts: 950
I am not nearly as sanguine about the success of this project. Let's face it, the N&W 611 project had the imprimatur of Norfolk Southern AND Trains magazine. They spent a huge amount of money generating enthusiasm and raising additional money, and when they were done, they had a place to run the engine. As far as I know, this project has none of the above. It would make a lot more sense to me to expend the time and money and effort to return No. 152 to operation.


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 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:07 pm 

1. KRM retains rights and ownership of the locomotive. So basically you would be spending your time, money, and resources to fix somebody else's toy. No way that could end badly. There's a very good reason the Fort Wayne boys decided to spend their money on their own toys rather than this one back in the day.

2. The #611, a locomotive that strictly mechanically speaking could have have been filled with water, fired up, and steamed away still just took something like 2-2.5 million dollars to get it into acceptable shape. You're telling me that you're going to move this thing to Lexington (by truck cause CSX sure isn't going to help), fully restore it from the shape it's in, and have it steaming in 4 years on only 1.3 Million dollars. I want what you're smoking.

3. You're going to attempt to restore this in Lexington, Kentucky. You're expecting support from one of the most miserable uncooperative communities on the face of the planet. That's not even an exaggeration from me, that's paraphrasing the Nation Institute of Mental Health.

4. You're attempting to restore this in state under a new governor that would drown bags of kittens in the Ohio River by hand if he thought it would save a dollar on the states animal control budget right now. So I'm sure you've got state support.

5. Speaking of state support, good luck getting any money out of the state DOT. They're still a little mad about that million dollars they lost dumping it into the little 0-6-0 "whose name we dare not speak" that's still in pieces. I think they're out of the steam restoration support business for a decade or two.

6. You're wanting to start an excursion service with the support of a town that just got done suing the excursion train they already had out of business.

7. Here's a small problem - RUN IT WHERE?
CSX - Pffthahahahahahahahaha
TTI - Owned by CSX see above
P&L - Also owned by CSX see above

NS - Have made it clear that IF excursions were to be run, the only groups they're willing to work with are TVRM, VMT, and Fort Wayne.

Corman - Already have an almost operable 2-10-2 sitting in the shop in Lexington right now that they have so little interest in seeing operate it's about to get stuffed and mounted in Midway with a good 7-8 years of tube time left on it. Not to mention the "Old Road" between Lexington and Louisville is still owned by CSX and leased from them, so no there.

So what would you do, run it down the LL branch with 80-90 pound rail on it and bridges rated to hold up a Geep, or run it around the C&O Belt Line and give your paying passengers a nice view of "crackhouse row" along Liberty Ave.

8-Whatever: Money for excursion equipment, money for insurance, lack of manpower, and a dozen other little things. Plus the fact your only real support is the Central Kentucky railfan scene which is just one big long history of infighting, exclusion, and discrimination.

However, the website is pretty.


  
 
 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 3:46 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 1885
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I second the comment. They are going to stuff and mount a perfectly good locomotive for lack of place to run it. How is there any logic to spend millions to restore another locomotive for the same market?

By the way, really interesting that the state will pay to put this Chinese locomotive on display in Midway. Who arranged that deal? And what a waste.

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 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:30 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:40 pm
Posts: 709
softwerkslex wrote:
I second the comment. They are going to stuff and mount a perfectly good locomotive for lack of place to run it. How is there any logic to spend millions to restore another locomotive for the same market?

By the way, really interesting that the state will pay to put this Chinese locomotive on display in Midway. Who arranged that deal? And what a waste.


Don't see where the state is involved in stuffing and mounting Corman's engine. It is out of service anyway, past due for a 5-year cap inspection.


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 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:03 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2010 7:45 pm
Posts: 12
I just can't see this going past much more then a dream. It has many obstacles to pass just to get started, a location with rail access to restore, ability to move to location (nearly impossible to do with a truck). They speak of being sustainable on there website, that seems laughable at best. I keep hearing that more information is to come and I happily await this information that is supposed to take all doubts from everyones minds.

Those are just a few of the physical limitations of this being undertook, they have multiple personal issues, just judging from the the chosen group of board members undertaking this situation. I see a few that have the information and know how, but I see and personally know a number of these individuals, and they struggle to coexist with members of current museums they attempt to volunteer at, in fact one of them to my knowledge has still in 8ish years of volunteering at a museum has completed start to finish a quality project of any form. This should be another delightful example of Kentucky's dysfunctional attempts at resurrection of history.


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 Post subject: Re: C&O 2716 and her return to steam
PostPosted: Sun Feb 07, 2016 5:10 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 12:17 pm
Posts: 91
Location: walton, ky
How many of these programs have started as a "pipe dream" that have become reality. It's a new day in Kentucky and a new group of guys with some solid names being brought in for preservation. They've signed a long term agreement with KRM which gets them the engine. 261 had the same issue 20 years ago and the fires went cold until they got ownership.

I can't wait to see 2716 steam. It's a solid story coming from KRM. Corman may very well be on board already. Many people said on here they wouldn't dare support a Chinese steamer. Here's the chance for rabid C&O fans to put their money where their hearts are!

Joe


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