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 Post subject: Re: OT - Windows 10
PostPosted: Mon Mar 14, 2016 11:00 pm 
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Randy mentioned one glitch with Windows 10, I will mention another which has been getting some discussion on the internet lately. After some use, the computer develops a fault where the start menu of Windows 10 does not display. The timer spins when you hit the start "button" but the panel does not activate. If you right-click the start button, a short list of actions does appear. Microsoft claims this glitch is due to "others" software, but it is a pretty significant operating defect to have occur, and makes the computer considerably harder to use. It also makes it very difficult to access the Windows 10 "settings" panel, which is not listed in the available actions.

I had this happen on a recently updated computer, about a week after the change to Windows 10. No software from others was installed during that time.

There has been a lot of discussion of various methods to deal with this problem. On the computer I was working with, none of the recommended fixes worked. I finally installed Stardock "Start 10", which provides an aftermarket start menu that is arranged like Windows 7. This was not a "fix" but rather a "work around", it restores all the functionality and avoids spending a lot of time dealing with the irritating glitch.

I suspect sometime in the future, with little notice, Microsoft will quietly send out an update that solves the problem.

PC

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Windows 10
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 8:51 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:55 pm
Posts: 686
Location: Warren, PA
Dick_Morris wrote:
Quote:
They insist that you need Quickbooks 2016 to run under Windows 10.



Yeah, that's what got me too - shutting down the previous version of QB as of 5/31 for online functionality. And the current version only runs under Windows 10, which was even more of a surprise to get into the the forced upgrade.

BTW, if you are upgrading QB in multi-user environment, be aware that the previous multiuser database driver doesn't work, and that the new database driver takes a lot of port tweaking through the Windows firewall that was never there before. I finally surrendered and called support, only took them 3 hours with me to change database versions, update the files, update all the firewalls, and get it to where it was before this all started.

Like Preston says, on the Win10 issues, they tend to be solved quietly and without fanfare via the automatic updates. It's good to take a non-critical machine and get used to it, but if you have critical applications, delay...delay...delay.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Windows 10
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:15 am 
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I should add to my previous posting on the problem of the Windows 10 “start” button disappearing, that until Microsoft gets that glitch straightened out, it is a good pre-emptive move to put the “settings” icon on the desktop of your computer. You will need access to that to try fixes to the start button glitch, it is easier if it is right where you can get to it directly.

Since the Windows XP operating system has been mentioned, I just wanted to share the experience of bringing a nice, older, computer from XP to Windows 10. A lot of people in the railroad industry still have XP computers since some of the Dell and HP types were so prevalent for downloading data from locomotives.

My first advice (personal opinion only, don’t get upset) would be to buy a new computer with Windows 10 installed from the factory. The price is nearly competitive, and it is much less effort. Save your nice Windows XP computer to run a scanner or do some other tasks, or just so you can start it up occasionally to remind you of how much you liked that operating system.

That being said, I have updated a nice (old) XP computer to Windows 10. It involves a clean install, and for that reason, I would recommend buying a new disk drive (500 Gig Toshiba SATA is about $40 now). I had a new Windows 7 package on hand, so I went for that and the free Windows 10 upgrade. Check the internet for the compatibility of your older computer with newer operating systems and look for postings by others who have done upgrades to see what problems they encountered. If you are going to Windows 7 and then to Windows 10, run the Microsoft Windows 7 upgrade advisor software to confirm that your computer is suitable, and see which version of Windows 7 they recommend.

Then when you get Windows 7 installed and are happy with how it is working, run the Windows 10 upgrade advisor tool to confirm that the computer is suitable for the next step. Be aware you may need to make changes to the bios and other adjustments. The upgrade advisor may not let you know about all these potential issues. Like I said, buying a new computer is often easier.

The old XP machine I had was suitable for both Windows 7 and Windows 10 and the good news was that it upgraded without any unusual problems. Your results may vary. I did not have to go searching for the free update to Windows 10, Microsoft offered it almost as soon as I got the machine online with Windows 7.

Be aware that your anti-virus software may need to be removed and reinstalled to function in Windows 10.

If you are going from XP to 7 to 10, one of the biggest changes will be the need for a new e-mail program. Outlook Express and Outlook used in XP are not very user friendly for archiving and transferring e-mails. Consider installing an aftermarket e-mail program (like OE Classic for example) on the Windows XP computer prior to the upgrade, it will import all your e-mails from Outlook Express and then transfer them to a USB drive as .eml files. Then when you get the computer running again under Windows 10, download the e-mail program again for Windows 10 and import all your e-mails from the USB drive. What I just described also works well if you want to transfer e-mails to a different computer. If you decide to use OE Classic, it is convenient for a former XP user, the program is arranged so much like Outlook Express that it takes very little effort to get used to it.

PC

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Windows 10
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 11:31 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 909
Hi,

For what its worth, I use 3rd party Mozilla and then Firefox with gmail email accounts.

I got burned once an a "latest is greatest" purchas about 1984 - I purchased a Buick Summerset Regal compact car. I did not realize that it was the first year it was offered. The teething problems were crazy. The totally electric dashboard cost a$550 to replace a few years later. The car had flopped and was not well supported. When the dash went out, it took out all the gauges and got burned by the non-functional gas gauge.

Mom who was driving the car did not realise the engine was running hot and the engine was overheating. New motor time.

The dealer did not replace motors so I took it to the local independent car shop. New motor cost about $5,000. He said the engine got so hot the block warmer melted.

That Buick ran until about 2005 and had about 120,000 miles on it. My 1986 Buick Century ran for 280 thousand miiles when retired (2000).

Amazing how long things will last when affordable care can be taken. Just like restoring a park steam loco after stationary display for 50-70 years,

Doug vV


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Windows 10
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 12:32 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2431
Dougvv wrote:
The car had flopped and was not well supported. When the dash went out, it took out all the gauges and got burned by the non-functional gas gauge.

Mom who was driving the car did not realise the engine was running hot and the engine was overheating. New motor time.

The dealer did not replace motors so I took it to the local independent car shop. New motor cost about $5,000. He said the engine got so hot the block warmer melted.


I'm confused. How did a non-functional gas gauge melt down the block? What step did I miss? I've driven cars with non-functioning gas gauges, like an old company truck. The worse thing that happened was you ran out of gas if you weren't careful.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Windows 10
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:29 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:42 pm
Posts: 34
New laptop with W10 a few weeks ago, took some learning (strong language helps!), but working fine. Desktop upgraded from 7 today, went very well, all software and files exactly where they should be, even good old Lotus 1-2-3 works fine. Note: a new version (not the downgrade) puts up its own desktop, few choices, but otherwise ok; upgrade uses old desktop exactly as it was, with a few minor additions. Go for it!


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Windows 10
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 5:31 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:42 pm
Posts: 34
Typo! NOt "downgrade"; but UP grade (downloaded)


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Windows 10
PostPosted: Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:55 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 909
Quote:
the block warmer melted


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:37 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:07 am
Posts: 521
I went from 8.1 to 10 -- upgrade took several hours, so you shouldn't do it on a day when you have something more important to do.

One big change is updates are now automatic, but you do have a choice as to when to install them as opposed to having to deal with update Tues..

Also, there's lots of info about windows 10 on the net

One thing to check before making the move is whether all your hardware/software will work with it (I had to replace one program)

Bob H


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:42 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 9:32 pm
Posts: 241
Most better computers like Dell will have a page that will let you know if your particular computer has been tested to run with Win 10. Some will detect your PC automatically and tell you.
My Dell laptop was listed as good to go, and as Win 8 was clunky I took the plunge.
The Win 10 update was a month before it was available at there prompt. I let it do its thing for a several hours (my Wi-Fi) then it crashed. Completely deceased.
After a few tries, and by looking around online with another PC for tricks (user groups etc.) on reloading Win 8 from start up it told me to wait for about a half hour. It however did not go back to 8 as I asked, but instead fixed 10. It had some bugs for a couple weeks but eventually loaded an update or something and it now all works.
It somehow did all that without me re loading any drivers or software and now runs well.

My 10 year old desktop on the other hand that still runs Win XP would never handle this. I tried an older PC at work and 7 did load but nothing else would work. No drivers for the old scanners, printers, sound boards etc. Because I still rely on these devices (and old software) and prefer not to toss them in the land fill, I configured this old PC for dual boot. I can either run Win XP off line to do graphics, or run Linux Ubuntu on line, a free operating system with support and updates, than runs flawlessly on this old box.

If you load 10 use a high speed corded connection if you can!


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:11 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2447
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Quickbooks used to be a very good piece of software. Ever since they decided to go "online" and price themselves so they make more money if you use their "service as a subsitute for software", they have become so aggressively mercenary I cannot bear to use the product. What's more, in the name of dragging you online, they have wrecked many of the features that made them good. If accounting goes online, then it needs a hard reboot, as online opens a million opportunities for workplace automation.

Dougvv wrote:
For what its worth, I use 3rd party Mozilla and then Firefox with gmail email accounts.

So does everybody else. Google Chrome is the #1 browser, with about 50% share, Safari is about 20% and Firefox and IE are both in decline and about 15% each.

And I certainly hope most people have figured out that telling an entire address book of people that you are now yourname231@your-latest-isp-here.com is no darned fun, and if you get a genuinely free @yahoo or @gmail account, those are yours for life. (Those are revenue-positive for the provider because they have 200 million users to spread development costs across; incremental cost to serve one more user is perhaps a nickel a year; all easily covered with sidebar ads.)

Quote:
I got burned once an a "latest is greatest" purchas about 1984 - I purchased a Buick Summerset Regal compact car. I did not realize that it was the first year it was offered. The teething problems were crazy. The totally electric dashboard cost a$550 to replace a few years later. The car had flopped and was not well supported.

The bleeding edge involves blood. This is why I'm deliriously happy with my 21 year old econobox with manual steering and stickshift. I'm ok with OBDII and I'm comfortable with a software glitch shutting down the engine, but I certainly don't want software doing uncommanded wide-open-throttle or upshift or disable brakes. Nor do I want a car full of convenience features which are broken. That said, I am willing to go "all-in" for a killer app, such as fueling my car with electricity or actual self-driving.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:23 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:07 am
Posts: 521
Dick_Morris wrote:
Quote:
They insist that you need Quickbooks 2016 to run under Windows 10.

Thanks for the heads-up. That makes it a non-starter for me/my organization.

(For non-profits, note that QuickBooks is available at a heavily discounted price through Techsoup.org, but I'd rather spend even the discounted cost on locomotive parts.)


Say what?

Q-books 2012 through 2015 run just fine under Windows 10 and you can still buy a stand alone copy at Techsoup at a great price.

Even at that price, I haven't seen any new features that justify going from the 2015 version to the 2016 one.

Bob H


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:59 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
Posts: 1195
Location: Chicago USA
My old Quickbooks 2000 does what I need it to do for the most part except run under Windows 8.1 which came on the box I got last spring. My solution was to install a virtual PC. Into that I installed Windows XP Pro (I had a clean version not tied to a particular machine). I installed my elderly Quickbooks into that and so far so good. It lives in its own little world on its own virtual C drive.

You can print from the virtual machine to any printer on the host machine but there is no direct data connection though it could be arranged via file sharing. I back up to a thumbdrive which is set to be "on" the virtual machine but can be switched back to the host. (You get an XP disconnect sound effect and then an 8.1 connect sound effect without physically moving anything. LOL)

My thinking is that if something totally blows up, I am not sure if files on the virtual C drive can be recovered or not. Hopefully yes. But if not my backup on a thumbdrive will be accessible. Just need to back up more often!

PS: Hate Windows 8.1. I downloaded a desktop to make it more XP-like. This may be one area where 10 is better but having gone through so much to get settled in I am reluctant to change anything. Still can't fathom why this machine which should be lightning fast compared to the 8 year old box actually takes longer to open programs.

PPS: Think XP is no longer supported? Think again. The gubment is spending millions to have M$ continue support for their XP systems. Taxpayers pay for this so you'd think it should be disseminated to the rest of us. Nope that would cut into W10 sales.


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 Post subject: Re: OT - Windows 10
PostPosted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:07 pm 
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Windows XP is also still being used as the operating system in many industrial applications, including some locomotive software systems.

Announced support for some commercial versions goes out to 2019 depending on the original date of introduction:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/gp/lifewinembed

PC

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 Post subject: Re: OT - Windows 10
PostPosted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:20 am 

Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2007 8:25 am
Posts: 133
Location: Across the river from Baldwin's on the Naugy
At least the PC's can be setup with a virtual operating system if there is a major problem. The problems are mainly with the hardware interface which a virtual system can see at that point.

Next time you watch "The Terminator" - original version, notice the code scrolling past. It is COBOL. How did a stand-alone computer from the future operate with a computer language from the 1960's? I was laughing out loud when I saw that The equivalent of a Zumwalt class destroyer using a lodestone for navigation.


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