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 Post subject: Surviving New Haven 8600 series coaches
PostPosted: Sat Jul 16, 2016 8:14 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:46 pm
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Location: St. Louis, MO
Is anyone aware of surviving cars of this group other than the two at the Connecticut Eastern RR Museum?

Ron Goldfeder
St. Louis

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Ron Goldfeder
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 Post subject: Re: Surviving New Haven 8600 series coaches
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 2:02 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm
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Certainly, here are the ones I know from prior knowledge

ex-NH Grill car #953 (Conrail 45907) National NYC Museum Erkhart, Indiana

ex-NH Parlor "Westerly" #315 Orrville, Ohio

ex-NH Observation lounge "Bunker Hill" #476 Orrville, Ohio

ex-NH coach #8619 Orrville, Ohio

ex-NH coach #8676 Orrville, Ohio

ex-NH coach #8646 Orrville, Ohio

ex-NH coach #952 Rocky Mount, North Carolina

ex-NH coach #312 "Attleborro" Herber Valley Railroad

ex- NH coach #317 "Danbury" Capital Passenger Car

ex-NH coach #903 "Roger Sherman" Pensacola, FL (this may have been scrapped recently)

ex-NH coach #2526 Ocean View, DE (there is another NH car next to it but I don't know the numbering)


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving New Haven 8600 series coaches
PostPosted: Sun Jul 17, 2016 7:41 pm 
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Location: H2O-town, CT
As a side note, Rapido is releasing models of these cars, including both a CERM, later this fall in HO scale.


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving New Haven 8600 series coaches
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:51 am 
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Location: Orrville, OH
ORHS still owns RPCX #3850, ex-#315 "Westerly" and is still in Orrville, OH.
"Bunker Hill" was scrapped some time ago.
Two coaches were bought and trucked to a restaurant - don't know which two.
The third coach was scrapped with the "Bunker Hill".

Eric Schlentner
ORHS

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Eric Schlentner
ORHS


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving New Haven 8600 series coaches
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:46 pm
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Location: St. Louis, MO
Does anyone know if Capital Passenger Cars still exists, possibly at Orrville, OH? It had one of the parlor cars from the same lot as the coaches, converted to a cab car.

Ron Goldfeder
St Louis

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Ron Goldfeder
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 Post subject: Re: Surviving New Haven 8600 series coaches
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:19 am 
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Location: Orrville, OH
RPCX 3850, originally #315 "Westerly", was owned by Capitol Passenger Car and has been sold to ORHS. So far as I know, it was never a cab car. Originally a 36 seat parlor, it was rebuilt in 1964 by NH into 72-seat coach #7206. PC renumbered it #3196 in 1968. The car went to Amtrak and was renumbered #7256. It was rebuilt in 1973 into a 56-seat coach/parlor #3850 with an experimental airliner style interior which turned it into an oven. The history after that is sketchy until 1988 when it was discovered sitting derelict in Barberton, OH. The car was purchased by Capitol, moved to and rebuilt in Orrville as a 36 seat parlor.

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Eric Schlentner
ORHS


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving New Haven 8600 series coaches
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:24 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:46 pm
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Location: St. Louis, MO
I was hasty in calling it a cab car. I looked at the photos of it available and see that one end has windows in the vestibule end walls and air horns on the roof, probably also an air brake valve inside. This suggests it was set up to be the leading car when he train is backing up but without and loco controls, as would be there as a cab car. Glad to hear the group was able to buy it.

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Ron Goldfeder
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 Post subject: Re: Surviving New Haven 8600 series coaches
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:18 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:44 am
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Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
ex-NH coach #312 "Attleborro" is no longer at the Heber Valley RR in Northern Utah. In 2011 or 2012 it was relocated to a campsite in the area that also has a couple of cabooses, I can't remember the exact location now. It has been remodeled into a camp cabin of sorts. It never saw use on the Heber Valley RR anyway.

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David Wilkinson
KSL TV, Salt Lake City, UT


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving New Haven 8600 series coaches
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:57 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
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Quote:
ORHS still owns RPCX #3850, ex-#315 "Westerly" and is still in Orrville, OH.
"Bunker Hill" was scrapped some time ago.
Two coaches were bought and trucked to a restaurant - don't know which two.
The third coach was scrapped with the "Bunker Hill".

Eric Schlentner
ORHS


Quote:
ex-NH coach #2526 Ocean View, DE (there is another NH car next to it but I don't know the numbering)


From an old thread....

Quote:
Two others, former Penn Central 2524 and 2560 (I don't have there New Haven #'s anymore) were sold by Boulder Scientifc to the restaurant in Delaware and moved from Orrville in June of 2005.


Not sure if this solves the mystery of the cars in Ocean View, Delaware?

Wesley


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving New Haven 8600 series coaches
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:43 pm 
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Location: Orrville, OH
Looking back on the previous thread, I thought the #2524 and #2526 were the two from Orrville that went to Delaware. Could be the 2560 was the one that was scrapped with the Bunker Hill. I don't think the restaurant bought all three. I could be full of malarkey, though - it's been known to happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving New Haven 8600 series coaches
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:15 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:46 pm
Posts: 536
Location: St. Louis, MO
Looking at previous threads as well as the current one and with roster information from Streamline Cars, Vol 1, this is what I have on these cars. Additions and corrections would be welcome.

Original 8600 Coaches

ex-NH #8605, PC/MBTA #2505, owned by Boulder Scientific / John Birmingham of
Colorado, used on the Royal Zephyr dinner train in DE – status?

ex-NH #8619, PC/MBTA #2519, Orrville (OH) Heritage Railroad Society possibly
owned by Boulder Scientific / John Birmingham of Colorado – scrapped

ex-NH #8625, PC/MBTA #2524, Orrville (OH), owned by Boulder Scientific / John
Birmingham of Colorado, to Royal Zephyr restaurant, June 2005, re-opened as
the Salted Rim Restaurant, Ocean View, DE

ex-NH #8627, PC #2526, Orrville, OH, owned by Boulder Scientific / John Birmingham
of Colorado, to Royal Zephyr restaurant, June 2005, re-opened as the Salted Rim Restaurant, Ocean View, DE, marked Cape Cod Hyannis #2526 (suggesting an earlier user/owner)

ex-NH #8646, MBTA #8646, Orrville (OH) Heritage Railroad Society, possibly owned
by Boulder Scientific / John Birmingham of Colorado - scrapped

ex-NH #8648, MBTA #8648, owned by Boulder Scientific / John Birmingham of
Colorado, used on the Royal Zephyr dinner train in DE – status?

ex-NH #8664, PC/MBTA #2560, Orrville (OH), owned by Boulder Scientific / John
Birmingham of Colorado, to Royal Zephyr restaurant, June 2005, re-opened as the Salted Rim Restaurant, Ocean View, DE

ex-NH #8673, PC/MBTA #2569, leased to the Cape Cod & Hyannis Railroad in 1988 and
returned to the MBTA in 1989, sold to the Railroad Museum of New England in 1989, and then donated to the Connecticut Eastern Railroad Museum and delivered in December 1997

ex-NH #8676, PC/MBTA #2572, Orrville (OH) Heritage Railroad Society possibly
owned by Boulder Scientific / John Birmingham of Colorado – scrapped

ex-NH #8687, MBTA #8687, owned by Boulder Scientific / John Birmingham of
Colorado, used on the Royal Zephyr dinner train in DE – status?

ex-NH #8694, MBTA #8694, owned by Boulder Scientific / John Birmingham of
Colorado, used on the Royal Zephyr dinner train in DE – status?

ex-NH #8695, PC/MBTA #2591, leased to the Cape Cod & Hyannis Railroad in 1988 and
returned to the MBTA in 1989, sold to the Railroad Museum of New England in 1989, and then donated to the Connecticut Eastern Railroad Museum and delivered in December 1997


Other type cars from Pullman Standard lot W6788

ex-NH 52 seat parlor #312 "Attleborro," re-built to 36 seats 1949, re-built to 72 seat coach – no smokers #7205 1964, PC #3195, Amtrak #7255, retired 1976, sold to Urban
Renewal, Wichita, KS, to Herber Valley Railroad, UT, as HVRX #7255, in 2011 or 2012 it was relocated to a campsite in the area and has been remodeled into a camp cabin along with a number of cabooses

ex-NH Parlor "Westerly" #315, re-built to 72 seat coach – no smoker #7206 in 1964, PC #3196, Amtrak #7256, re-built to 56 seat coach – 12 seat lounge #3850 in 1973, retired 1976, privately purchased by T.G. Jones, late 1980s to Mr. & Mrs. Larry Marshall, re-built in 1995 as 28 seat parlor car RPCX #3850 “C&B Marshall” with one vestibule end having windows, air horns on the roof, and probably a brake valve inside for use when backing, marked for Capital Passenger Car Co., used by the Orrville (OH) Heritage Railroad Society, which bought it from the Marshalls when they retired

ex- NH 52 seat parlor #317 "Danbury," re-built to 36 seats 1949, re-built to 72 seat coach – no smokers #7207 1964, PC #3197, Amtrak #7257, re-built to 56 seat coach-12 seat lounge #3851 1974, retired 1974, to Pittsburg and Shawmut RR – status?

ex-NH 57 seat Observation bar-lounge "Bunker Hill" #476, PC #4425, retired 1976,
Orrville (OH) Heritage Railroad Society –scrapped

ex-NH 48 seat grill-diner #952, PC #4572, retired 1975, to RR Passenger Cars, Inc., Baltimore, MD, to Rocky Mount, North Carolina – status?

ex-NH 48 seat grill-diner #953, National NYC Museum Erkhart, IN, to PC #4573, Conrail
#45907, served as part of the wreck train in Selkirk, NY, donated by Conrail in 1997

ex-NH 48 seat diner #902 "Lewis Morris," PC #4502, retired 1968, sold to Iron Horse restaurant, Bristol, CT – status?

ex-NH 48 seat diner #903 "Roger Sherman," retired 1968, sold to Seafood Junction/Ocean City restaurant, Pensacola, FL, - scrapped

ex-NH 48 seat diner #907 "John Carver," retired 1968, sold to Seafood Junction/Ocean City restaurant, Pensacola, FL,- scrapped

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St. Louis


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving New Haven 8600 series coaches
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 12:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:25 pm
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Re: Royal Zephyr Dinner Train in Ocean View.

There are two coaches used for what has re-opened as the Salted Rim Restaurant in Ocean View, displayed with former Queen Anne's Railroad #3.

Queen Anne's Railroad operated in the 1990s on the Delaware Coast Line railroad between Lewes and Nassau, DE. I think there were also ex-NH coaches on this operation that are not the same ones at the restaurant in Ocean View.

A photo on the web shows 2526 marked for Cape Cod & Hyannis. I drive by the restaurant regularly and can try to confirm the car number. The cars are painted black and I cannot see any numbers on the vestibule door whilst driving by. At one time there was a web page with pictures of the ex-Queen Anne's NH cars in the yard in Georgetown but I can not find that link.

Wesley


Last edited by wesp on Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving New Haven 8600 series coaches
PostPosted: Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:15 pm 
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Posts: 128
Location: Orrville, OH
Ron - Thanks for digging and filling in the blanks. Couple corrections, though: #315 "Westerly" is/was the only car owned by ORHS. The others noted in your list at ORHS were actually at DABO, Inc. which was on the other side of town. To potentially confuse things a little more in the future, ORHS purchased the DABO property last year.

We'll need to confirm the whereabouts or demise of #8664/#2560. I don't think it went to the restaurant. I think it was scrapped at DABO. I understand those NH cars were getting in pretty sorry shape.

Other than the cars I've specifically mentioned, I can't confirm what was on the DABO property earlier than 2013. I'll see if I can do any more digging for records on my end but don't hold your breath hoping I'll be successful. Details may be hard or impossible to come by.

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ORHS


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 Post subject: Re: Surviving New Haven 8600 series coaches
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 9:22 am 
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Adding to what Ron posted, here are the dispositions for some of the other cars built by P-S in Lot #W6788:

(I'll post more later.)

20 Cars, Baggage-Buffet-Lounge-(Parlors), County-Series:

General Info:

These cars were built to Plan #W46610, were ordered in December 1945 and were delivered in October 1948. When delivered, each of these cars had a baggage section, a buffet, a lounge section, 2 roomettes, and 1 drawing room. 10 of the cars also had a parlor section. Both of these variants of the overall floorplan also had their own Plan numbers, and as cars were reconfigured/rebuilt, suffixes were added to these Plans.

When built, #200-#209 had a 31 seat lounge section, to Plans #4503 (#200-#205) and #4503A (#206-#209). I don't what the difference(s) were that resulted in there being a suffix for #206-#209; it most likely was due to a difference in the actual seating arrangement.

When built, #210-#219 had a 14 seat parlor section and a 11 seat lounge section, to Plan #4501.

#200-#205 were reconfigured in 1949, with lounge seating reduced to 29. #204-#205 were rebuilt in 1953, with the baggage section replaced by 2 additional drawing rooms, to Plan #4503E. Also, Madden lists that #201-#202 were changed to Plan #4503C in 1953, but Randall lists no such change, so I don't know how the configuration was modified at that time. In Randall's "Railway Passenger Car Annual, Volume 4 (1978-1979)", #200-#202 are listed as having 25 parlor seats and 2 "day rooms". In the same Volume, #204 is listed as a parlor-bar, with 31 parlor seats and 5 "day rooms".

#206-#207 were reconfigured in 1949, with lounge seating increased to 32, and were rebuilt in 1953, with the baggage section replaced by 2 additional drawing rooms, to Plan #4503D. #206 was equipped with a telephone until 1956. In Randall's "RPC Annual, Volume 4", these 2 cars are listed as parlor-bars (the number of seats is not listed).

#208-#209 were reconfigured in 1949, with lounge seating reduced to 28, and were rebuilt in 1953, with the baggage section replaced by 2 additional drawing rooms, to Plan #4503B. #209 was equpped with a telephone until 1956.

Dispositions:

#200 Middlesex County to PC #7191, listed in "RPC Annual Volume 5 (1980-1981)" as stored, listed in "RPC Annual Volume 6 (1984)" as likely scrapped.

#201 Suffolk County to PC #7192, listed in "RPC Annual Volume 5" as stored, listed in "Volume 6" as likely scrapped.

#202 Bristol County to PC #7193, listed in "RPC Annual Volume 5" as stored, listed in "Volume 6" as likely scrapped.

#203 Dukes County to PC #7194, retired in 1971 and subsequently transferred to the MofW department, converted (when??) to an electrical equipment car, MofW # unknown, no further disposition info.

#204 Essex County to PC #7176, listed in "RPC Annual Volume 5" as stored, listed in "Volume 6" as likely scrapped.

#205 Plymouth County to PC #7177, sold in 1974 to Amtrak, intended as #1705, which was not applied, retired in 1975 and sold for scrap to Ampol Wrecking (Indianapolis), would've been scrapped on site at Beech Grove.

#206 Putnam County to PC #7178, sold in 1977 to NJDOT, retired in either 1978 or 1979* and sold for scrap to Naparano Iron & Metal Company (Newark, NJ).

*Randall lists 1978 in "Streamliner Cars Volume One" and 1979 in "RPC Annual Volume 5".

#207 New London County to PC #7179, sold in 1977 to NJDOT, retired in either 1978 or 1979 and sold for scrap to Naparano.

#208 Berkshire County to PC #7180, sold in 1974 to Amtrak, intended as #1706, which was not applied, retired in 1975 and sold for scrap to the David J. Joseph Company (Cincinnati), was most likely scrapped on site at Beech Grove.

#209 Kings County to PC #7181, sold in 1974 to Amtrak, intended as #1707, which was not applied, retired in 1975 and sold for scrap to the D.J. Joseph Co.

#210 Kent County to PC #7182, sold in 1971 to Amtrak as #1700, rebuilt in 1976 to baggage-46 seat coach #1603, retired in 1981 and sold in 1983 to Excursion Lines, current status unknown.

#211 Washington County to PC #7183, sold in 1971 to Amtrak as #1701, rebuilt in 1976 to baggage-46 seat coach #1604, retired in 1981 and sold in 1983 to Excursion Lines, current status unknown.

#212 Ulster County to PC #7184, retired in 1971 and scrapped.

#213 Tolland County to PC #7185, retired in 1971 and sold to an unknown party in Traverse City, MI, current status unknown.

#214 Fairfield County to PC #7186, sold in 1971 to Amtrak as #1702, rebuilt in 1976 to baggage-46 seat coach #1605, retired in 1981 and sold in 1983 to the Utica Chapter NRHS, current status unknown.

#215 Queens County to PC #7187, sold in 1977 to NJDOT, retired in either 1978 or 1979 and sold for scrap to Naparano.

#216 Litchfield County to PC #7188, retired in 1971 and sold to the same unknown party as the Tolland County, current status unknown.

#217 Windham County to PC #7189, sold in 1971 to Amtrak as #1703, was planned to be rebuilt in 1976 to baggage-46 seat coach #1606, which was cancelled (however the car was renumbered to #1606). Retired in 1976 and sold for scrap to Naparano. However, unlike almost all the other cars sold to Naparano, this car had a second life: it was later (when??) acquired by the Otter Valley RR as #901 Sutherland Falls Club, and was later (when??; could've been either circa 1981 or circa 1984) resold to the Delaware-Otsego Corporation as NYS&W #508, current status unknown.

#218 Hampshire County wrecked in 1967, the exact date and location are unknown.

#219 Bronx County to PC #7190, sold in 1974 to Amtrak, intended as #1704, which was not applied, retired in 1975 and sold for scrap to the D.J. Joseph Co.

Sources:

1. "Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

2. "Railway Passenger Car Annual, Volume Four (1978-1979)" by W. David Randall and Zenon R. Hansen (RPC Publications, 1978)

3. "Railway Passenger Car Annual, Volume Five (1980-1981)" by W. David Randall and Zenon R. Hansen (RPC Publications, 1980)

4. "Railway Passenger Car Annual, Volume Six (1984)" by W. David Randall and Elbert Simon (RPC Publications, 1984)

5. "Amtrak by the Numbers" by David C. Warner and Elbert Simon (White River Productions, 2011)

6. Tom Madden's Pullman Project CCR database: http://pullmanproject.com/Database.htm

7. Mike Palmieri's Amtrak rosters

8. Jerry LaBoda's photo links database: http://passcarphotos.info/

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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 Post subject: Re: Surviving New Haven 8600 series coaches
PostPosted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 11:05 am 

Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 389
Location: Bowie, MD
Had dinner at the Salted Rim last month. Photos here, please ignore the family photos later on the page:

http://www.ladyandtramp.com/photos/v/dewey_beach_2016/

I didn't see any car numbers, but didn't look that close or go into the cars. Looked like there had been some recent work on the draft gear at the street end of the cars.

The food was pretty good. The "crab fries" are highly recommended. The train theme has been maintained, with recordings of trains arriving and leaving a station played between music.

Bob


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