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 Post subject: Re: Filling in flang ways
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 6:55 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 909
Hi,

I've been to many museums around the country.

What I seem to recall that made the most sense was a filler strip that slipped into the flangeway. When moving equipment, it was removed first. It was in 3-4 foot sections and if the total length of the new equipment was different from the old, then extra fillers were placed or removed as needed.

I do not recall where I saw it but I would guess the most likely places to be the Railroad Museum of California (I was there in 1988 and 1990), Railroad Museum of Pennsylvania (many times over the years), and/or Steamtown in Scranton.

I also could have it all miss-remembered. Unless there is a need for frequent rail access, having flange fillers that needed to be removed for rail access would make the best solution.

FWIW

Doug vV


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 Post subject: Re: Filling in flang ways
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:01 pm 

Joined: Tue Jul 31, 2012 5:05 pm
Posts: 114
Sounds like no one has a suggestion that is proven to work.

Maybe the wood fills is the best idea if you don't switch very often.

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Jim Lundquist, Director of Museum Services
Pacific Southwest Railway Museum
Campo, CA (San Diego County)


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 Post subject: Re: Filling in flang ways
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:14 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2121
Location: Northern Illinois
Bobharbison wrote:

EDIT - ITS makes a comparable product. http://www.railseal.com/grade_crossings.html

I don't deal with them since I'm in Seattle and they're on the east coast. To be honest, I'm not even sure they're still in production. But it may be worth exploring and they may have an filler option available.


That is the same outfit I linked before... here is their filler:

http://www.itsrailroadrubber.com/ITSframes/ProductsOnly/FlangewayFillerStrip.htm

I see how this could be poured in place, but I have no idea if it's cost effective.

What's the big thing about shops, anyway? Shops don't need ADA compliance. Volunteers should know to pick up their feet. Display halls need ADA compliance.

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Dennis Storzek


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 Post subject: Re: Filling in flang ways
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:24 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2435
Dennis Storzek wrote:
Bobharbison wrote:

EDIT - ITS makes a comparable product.


That is the same outfit I linked before...


But not the same product. The one you show appears to require a concrete panel, as you mentioned. The one I linked to is designed for asphalt, etc. It doesn't show a flange filler, but I suspect they could easily modify it, if they don't already have that option.


Last edited by Bobharbison on Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Filling in flang ways
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:26 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2435
Dennis Storzek wrote:

What's the big thing about shops, anyway? Shops don't need ADA compliance. Volunteers should know to pick up their feet. Display halls need ADA compliance.


They have frequent train traffic. If you have a mostly static track in a display hall, simply choose something that can be inserted into the flangeway and removed when needed. Wood, plastic, rubber, whatever. The options are much easier if you don't need it to hold up under traffic.


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 Post subject: Re: Filling in flang ways
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:00 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 12, 2010 9:52 pm
Posts: 108
Location: Pittsburgh
“Display halls need ADA compliance.”

True, but compliance with ADA does NOT require that flangeways be filled in. To the contrary, Article 810.10 of the 2010 ADA Standards for Accessible Design allows flangeways to be up to 2 ½ inches wide. However, that dimension is less than the 3-inch flangeway width recommended by AREMA, which is based on accommodating wheel flanges with lateral wear at the condemning limit while still providing a healthy clearance between the backs of the wheels and the crossing surface material. Flangeways at the 2 ½ inch dimension will still accommodate worn wheels, but the residual clearance to the crossing panel will be tiny if the track is constructed to standard gauge. Particularly in straight track, tightening the gauge in display halls down to 56 ¼ inches or even tighter might be considered.

On a somewhat related issue, the Department of Transportation’s ADA regulations concerning the relationship between station platforms and vehicle door thresholds allow a horizontal gap of 3 inches. One might rationally expect that the maximum platform gap and maximum flangeway requirement would be identical, since the accessibility issues are the same, but that would be applying logic and common sense in the world of Federal bureaucracy. How silly of me………

But what I find most incredible is that there are no ADA restrictions at all on flangeway depth. So long as your flangeway is sufficiently narrow, it can be as tall as the rail and more. Personally, I think an excessively deep flangeway is far more likely to cause a problem for the user of a mobility device than flangeway that is a bit too wide.

/s/ Larry
Lawrence G. Lovejoy, P.E.


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 Post subject: Re: Filling in flang ways
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:01 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5260
Location: southeastern USA
Is there a girder rail profile that meets the ADA and practical flangeway requirements at the same time, even if including the slight narrowing of the gauge as recommended?

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 Post subject: Re: Filling in flang ways
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:05 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8390
Location: Baltimore, MD
As I recall, the B&O Railroad Museum in the past (and maybe now, I didn't pay a great deal of attention) used grey PVC piping of the exact diameter needed to fill the rail gap, cut to the precise lengths needed, to fill the gaps around the turntable in the main roundhouse display. This equipment doesn't move in and out often, and the pipes make a gap that might trip a person or snag a wheelchair wheel into the gentlest of bumps.


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 Post subject: Re: Filling in flang ways
PostPosted: Wed Aug 03, 2016 10:14 am 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2455
Location: S.F. Bay Area
Bobharbison wrote:
That's when you need to be specific about terminology.

Dennis Storzek wrote:
What's the big thing about shops, anyway? Shops don't need ADA compliance. Volunteers should know to pick up their feet. Display halls need ADA compliance.

Shops don't need ADA access. Display halls need ADA access unless grandfathered.

Everything already has ADA compliance pretty much.

ADA requires you do what is easy. Major work is deemed "not easy". However, if you are doing major work for other reasons, including ADA access is deemed "easy".


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