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 Post subject: Re: Are Park Trains "Real" Trains?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:44 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5022
Cordicron wrote:

I don't recall any arcing from the shoe and wire which I find curious.


"Cordicron" -

On one of the many short video's, I did notice a little bit of arcing. It's very quick and you have to be lucky to see it.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: Are Park Trains "Real" Trains?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 06, 2014 10:49 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 271
Nice theme question. I tend to look to what causes the “train” to be.

A) Was the “train” inspired by a historical landscape?
Or
B) Was the “train” once a part of the historical landscape?

Then the same can be applied to the trackage upon which the “train” resides.

C) Was the trackage inspired by a historical landscape?
Or
D) Was the trackage once a part of the historical landscape?

This will give you a classification matrix for the train you are assessing. Take Knott’s Berry Farm’s train. It would be a B/C. The locomotives and rolling stock were once a part of the historical landscape but the trackage was inspired by the historical landscape. The Portland Zoo’s train would score A/C. Both train and trackage are inspired by the historical landscape. This macro matrix could be further specified by adding additional criteria. Criteria that would allow one to classify a locomotive such as 4501 which though an original has been significantly modified beyond its historical fabric (tender, stoker, feedwater, low water alarm, roller bearings, etc.) Back to the question does it count? This is still a free country, and train’s significance is and always will be subjective. When a theme park gets rid of a train it is a loss to us all because it demonstrates a lack of general interest.


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 Post subject: Re: Are Park Trains "Real" Trains?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 6:32 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3054
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Oh my, look what turned up on my Facebook page:

https://www.facebook.com/ebtrr/photos/a ... tif_t=like

Using Mr. Reynolds' matrix, this scene would be an A/B/D.


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 Post subject: Re: Are Park Trains "Real" Trains?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 11:26 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2435
I was aware of the Crown testing on EBT. I was not aware any Crown made it to Hawaii. Is that just some random FB comment, or is there some truth behind it? I thought I recalled it went to someplace like Six Flags.


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 Post subject: Re: Are Park Trains "Real" Trains?
PostPosted: Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:03 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:11 pm
Posts: 271
I'm in GA and we have the Stone Mountain Scenic RR. From its start it was all over the map A/B/C/D. Historical equipment modified to look like something from the past operating on trackage that was inspired by the past with parts on the old quarry ROW. In 50 more years the Stone Mountain Scenic RR will be an antique...


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 Post subject: Re: Are Park Trains "Real" Trains?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 9:53 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3054
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
A park railroad with some beautiful and authentic looking locomotives--in Spain! Port Adventura Park, complete with bluegrass music and steam locomotives by Severn Lamb.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zICCSPoMMOQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQVek72imPI

Somehow this is appropriate when you recall the "Spaghetti Westerns" of Sergio Leone. . .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3l3peRYyBCQ


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 Post subject: Re: Are Park Trains "Real" Trains?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:34 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3054
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Perhaps borderline with a track gauge of 33 inches, and electric power--the Seaton Tramway:

http://www.tram.co.uk/

http://www.tripatini.com/profiles/blogs/seaton-tramway

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rmd0jXbk7t8#t=34

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jq_DD__2xm0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7inwyASDrw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZm12RM01zo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4asX0eZtal0

One of the things that stands out about the Seaton trams is the sound--so familiar to those of the electric persuasion.


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 Post subject: Re: Are Park Trains "Real" Trains?
PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:02 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3054
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Just came across this while looking for something else--the clearest photo I've seen yet of the "Wildlife Adventure" themed park train at Disney World:

http://www.hiddenmickeyguy.com/sites/de ... Disney.jpg

The "article" the photo came from. The interesting thing to me is that the author, who does not seem to be what we would call a serious rail enthusiast, did take the time to note that these Severn Lamb steam outline locomotives are based on an Aspinwall designed locomotive built for service in India.

http://www.hiddenmickeyguy.com/news/tak ... en-mickeys

Too bad this isn't "real" steam!


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 Post subject: Re: Are Park Trains "Real" Trains?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:37 am 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3054
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Coalition for Sustainable Rail has been a sometimes controversial subject here (this is the group that wants to set a new steam speed record with a former Santa Fe 4-6-4, using "biocoal" made from renewable wood), but they are apparently serious enough to do instrumented testing--and who is going to say Milwaukee Zoo's 15 inch gauge No. 1924 (Sandley, 1977) doesn't sound and look impressive?

https://www.facebook.com/csrail/videos/920822814695335/

https://www.facebook.com/csrail/videos/924310427679907/

https://www.facebook.com/csrail/photos/ ... =3&theater

Alternate links for those who can't get Facebook:

https://vimeo.com/170506818

https://vimeo.com/174938911

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5814CA36

http://csrail.org/newsroom?tag=Milwaukee%20Zoo%20Train


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 Post subject: Re: Are Park Trains "Real" Trains?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:24 am 

Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:48 pm
Posts: 63
Bobharbison wrote:
I was aware of the Crown testing on EBT. I was not aware any Crown made it to Hawaii. Is that just some random FB comment, or is there some truth behind it? I thought I recalled it went to someplace like Six Flags.


No Crowns went to Hawaii,however the two locomotives that were rebuilt by Keystone Light Railways for the LK&P were tested on the EBT. As I recall this was the first three foot locomotive that Crown built, and went to Legend City in Arizona


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 Post subject: Re: Are Park Trains "Real" Trains?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:52 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:54 am
Posts: 789
Location: Califoothills / Midwest Prairies
It seems appropriate that the biocoal tests occurred on the Milwaukee Zoo railroad. I recall they had done extensive testing and analysis in the 80s or 90s regarding the efficiency of fuel and operating costs for a steam-powered park train. So it is already a test-bed of sorts.

I also recall that Sandley incorporated some innovations in his locomotive designs, such as gear-driven rotary valves. To my knowledge, the Milwaukee Zoo railroad is the only commercial-installation park train operation of the Sandley's that remains today. Also surviving, of course, is the home-operation of the Sandley's on the Riverside and Great Northern in the Dells, which is like a miniature railway museum/EBT in and of itself. It was abandoned and dormant for 6 years or so before being restored by a group of volunteers.

http://dellstrain.com/museum-history/


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 Post subject: Re: Are Park Trains "Real" Trains?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 1:55 pm 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 611
Location: Bucks County, PA
Ok - after 7 pages of this, if we could sum up (and that's a big if) - what are generally speaking, "real" trains - especially concerning steam locomotives - as opposed to park or "fake" trains - again especially concerning steam locomotives?

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 Post subject: Re: Are Park Trains "Real" Trains?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:11 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1214
bigjim4life wrote:
Ok - after 7 pages of this, if we could sum up (and that's a big if) - what are generally speaking, "real" trains - especially concerning steam locomotives - as opposed to park or "fake" trains - again especially concerning steam locomotives?



Lots of lines could be drawn to create categories, but I don't see how a line could be drawn in terms of real trains versus park trains. The problem is in defining "real." Also, I would not consider park trains to be "fake". That term too needs a definition.


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 Post subject: Re: Are Park Trains "Real" Trains?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:28 pm 

Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:30 pm
Posts: 611
Location: Bucks County, PA
Ron Travis wrote:
bigjim4life wrote:
Ok - after 7 pages of this, if we could sum up (and that's a big if) - what are generally speaking, "real" trains - especially concerning steam locomotives - as opposed to park or "fake" trains - again especially concerning steam locomotives?



Lots of lines could be drawn to create categories, but I don't see how a line could be drawn in terms of real trains versus park trains. The problem is in defining "real." Also, I would not consider park trains to be "fake". That term too needs a definition.


Very well then - let's start drawing up some categories...

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 Post subject: Re: Are Park Trains "Real" Trains?
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 2:52 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1063
Location: Youngstown, OH
I tend to think of anything 24" gauge and larger to be in the realm of "real" railroading, with anything below that getting into the park train category. Now there can be some overlap but generally once you get to 24" you are using larger and heavier built equipment, much of it formerly used in industry.

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Steel Industry Preservationist, Narrow Gauge Railroader and ALCOhaulic


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