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 Post subject: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby ME
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 4:36 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 356
As noted on the thread about former DL&W99/ now NS 35, there is a former Northern Pacific boattail observation car Spokane Club, later BAR Burnt Hill, also in Derby ME that needs to be moved. I decided to put it in its own thread. A person has started a gofundme site to move it, though it is unclear if he actually owns it. I haven't seen any discussion anywhere else. It looks to be in fair shape, though no interior photos were posted. Anyone know any more?


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:02 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 356
Here is a photo, and some text from the gofundme.com site (which I decided not to include so as not to be an ad for this person, whom I do not know). Misspellings from the original, it sure sounds like he owns it and just needs to move it from CMQ's yard, they wanted $600 per month for storage from another car there. I am posting this in case he lacks the means to do so and someone else does, which seems not unlikely:

By 1967 the 6 cars became obsolete on the North Coast limited. In 1974 the 393 or Spokane Club was sold to the Bangor and Aroostook Railroad and renamed 393 Meeting Creek. The then President of th BAR (Frederic C. (“Buck”) Dumaine, Jr. remaned the car Burnt Hill 107 for a favorite place of his. The car became one of the BAR Business fleet that would transport shippers and attract new shippers along the BAR system as well as do special excursions and christmas trains of the BAR.
The BAR saved this car from a historical standpoint and also made sure up to when the Iron Road systems took over that this car was well taken care of. When the BAR was sold off to the Iron Road systems to the MMA I don't have much information, but the car has spent all of its life at Derby shops since 1974 until now. When the CMQ took over operations from MMA the car was deemed to lack anything important and was to face the scrap torch. I stepped in a saved her.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:15 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
Posts: 347
I went ahead and contacted the railroad and was able to get myself put into the "on deck" position in case the current deal ends up falling thru. At least there's a chance they'll call me before they call the scrapper. The person I ended up speaking to remembered me from past years of talking to them about my interest in the car if the cloudy ownership situation ever got resolved. I had heard this past year that the ownership of the car was still in dispute (lots of back rent owed by the guy who supposedly bought it from the RR maybe 15 years ago). Where have we heard that one before? At any rate, I guess that was resolved and since the owner presumably was not able to make good on the back rent, they sold the car this fall.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 6:05 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 356
Topfuel wrote:
I went ahead and contacted the railroad and was able to get myself put into the "on deck" position in case the current deal ends up falling thru. At least there's a chance they'll call me before they call the scrapper. The person I ended up speaking to remembered me from past years of talking to them about my interest in the car if the cloudy ownership situation ever got resolved. I had heard this past year that the ownership of the car was still in dispute (lots of back rent owed by the guy who supposedly bought it from the RR maybe 15 years ago). Where have we heard that one before? At any rate, I guess that was resolved and since the owner presumably was not able to make good on the back rent, they sold the car this fall.

Excellent, that is what makes this forum special.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:52 pm 

Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2013 2:34 pm
Posts: 87
At one point there were a couple of ex-CN/VIA "dayniter" coaches in Derby as well. Are they still there or did they depart earlier.

As to the Spokane Club, the interior was still "intact" a few years ago. By intact I mean the really bad 1970's wall paneling and the shag carpet BAR installed was still there!


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:53 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:38 pm
Posts: 211
Location: Roanoke VA
While the Belford was privately owned and not bought from CM&Q it has departed for points south after a deal was worked with the owner and NS. The NP Observation Car Spokane Club and three ex-Via cars remain, and I can confirm this based on my observations while in Derby this past Dec 2016. I can say that the Ex-Via cars were not spoken for at the time of my visit, further more I was told that the remaining cars in Derby that were owned by CM&Q by default after the settling/dissolving of the MMA were for sale for a $1 each with the requirement that if signing a buyers agreement for the $1 the new owner was responsible for covering the cost of movement preparation and transportation cost off CM&Q. So while a potential car owner would have a stunning low buy in price then reality would hit when it came time to prep car for movement $$$ and then paying for movement $$$. At the time of my visit I was told that the NP Car was spoken for at the time...$1 down, with the rest yet to be done. I looked over and photographed the exterior of the NP Car and passed this information to some friends who were/are potentially interested in the car and are "uniquely" qualified to have a legitimate use for it and provide a potential outlet to another chapter in its life. While I wanted to inspect the interior of the NP Car for my friends it was secured as it was/is presently under agreement and my time was limited to work related projects at the time. The three Ex-Via cars are not spoken for last I checked and are available... but one has to consider value based on cost to ready for movement and cost of move to new location, are they worth it? Cars are mainly being offered in the manor listed above due to the cost that would be incurred to scrap them on site due to "unmentionables" being in the cars, so its better at this time to basically give them away as long as they are removed from the "railroad" releasing CM&Q of the "material" liability. Another key thing to consider is that Derby/CM&Q is NOT a Passenger car shop and CM&Q is not in the position to ready passenger cars for movement, so any one interested in a car will have to provide parts and labor in Derby or hire a contractor to perform the work for them to have cars road ready, more of the cost after becoming a car owner...

Now is the present NP Car "owner" going to fulfill the agreement and prep and remove the car by set deadline who knows. Nothing had been done to the car as of Dec 2016.

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Steven Smith
Roanoke / Salem VA


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 10:30 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 7:40 pm
Posts: 36
You wouldn't have gotten the Via Daynighter car numbers by chance?

Thanks!


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:16 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2006 2:38 pm
Posts: 211
Location: Roanoke VA
I'm sorry to say I did not collect any information off the three Ex-Via cars. Other than the focus of my work in Derby at the time, I only really had enough spare time to look over and photograph the NP Spokane Club for which I had friends interested in it. I'm sure we have some folks on this Board that have these numbers or live "nearby". Worst case someone could call the shops and request the car numbers. Two of the Ex-Via Cars are west of the entrance on a stub track where the Belford used to be parked, the other Ex-Via car is parked with the Spokane Club in front of the shops right at the front entrance with the string of previously auctioned off locomotives.

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Steven Smith
Roanoke / Salem VA


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 11:21 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:07 am
Posts: 30
My database shows the 3 daynighters may be;

CNR / VIA # 5738, converted by CNR in 1977 from CNR # 2058 "VAL D'ESPOIRE", originally NYC "SODUS BAY" (22 roomettes)

VIA # 5739 converted by VIA in 1978 from CNR / VIA # 2132 "MOOSE RIVER", originally FEC "VENEZUELA" (10 roomette-6 bedroom)

VIA # 5740 converted by VIA in 1978 from CNR / VIA # 2135 "GRANDE RIVIERE" originally FEC "ORIENTE" (10 roomette-6 bedroom).

In 1996, the 3 cars went to and were assigned Bangor & Aroostook division of Iron Road Railways. The 2 FEC cars were assigned # 105 and 106 respectively, but I have no number for the NYC car. Also I have the 2 FEC cars as going to the Blue Ridge Scenic Railway in 2003.

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alias ParlourcarII


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:04 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3749
Location: Maine
I had a pleasant hour meeting today, with Chad Mowery, General Manager, of the Central Maine and Quebec Railroad. We spoke in his office, and while I am reporting back our discussion, in no manner do I speak for the CM&Q Rwy., Mr. Mowery, or other officers.

Regarding observation car 107, former Northern Pacific "Spokane Club": The railroad wants it off the property. They are aware of the historic role played by the car, but have no interest in running passenger excursions using it. The car is owned by a gentleman from Quebec, but his agreement to remove it has long expired. An extension has been granted to move it, but nothing has come of it. There are several other people expressing interest to purchase the car, including one organization in the region. The railroad is willing to entertain all proposals. Nobody has come forward with a hard plan, backed with dates, and showing financial ability to follow through. To see the car preserved, CM&Q will sell it for $1.00, but removal must be guaranteed.
The same arrangement goes for the remaining passenger cars on a siding at Derby shops. $1.00@, provide a removal plan, and they're yours. It would appear the interest from Canada has waned, on these vehicle.
Considering the cars are roller bearing equipped, and attached to live rail, I'd say the price is remarkably fair. Getting them moved has been and seems to remain, the fly in the ointment

Bangor & Aroostook F3A #502 - This is official- CM&Q is very much aware of the historic value of the locomotive. It needs minor work and traction motors, but under no conditions will it be scrapped. The company will protect and keep the locomotive in storage indefinitely. Should a potential buyer make a bid that is worthy of the locomotive's value, it would probably be reviewed, but not necessarily accepted. The CM&Q takes some pride in having this particular unit in the fleet, albeit in storage.

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3749
Location: Maine
My personal assessment of the four passenger cars at Derby Shops.

Observation car 701 (nee' "Spokane Club", NPRR)- 701 has no obvious exterior damage other than a tiny amount of sill rust, but it is not pervasive. The underside appears to be intact; trucks appear to be in good condition. One window on the north side of the car has been replaced with wooden chip board. No obvious vandalism could be seen insofar as I was able to determine. The Observation end is secure and tightly closed. The passenger end door has been opened by force at one time and is sealed with a padlock, placed by an owner. The combination was not available, nor was a bolt cutter. The door damage is not severe.

Car 5738 is an ex VIARail coach. Entrance door was sprung and kicked open. Damage is repairable. There is one window missing, but the weather damage has been limited. Most chairs and fixtures remain in place despite some minor breakage. It is littered with VIARAil literature and paper cups. The car needs some plumbing work, and despite having been visited by vandals, there is little paint graffiti damage. This car needs the toilets re-plumbed, but most everything remains inside the car. I'd advise new carpet and drapes, and a professional cleaning of the upholstery.
Car 751 Ex CNR, ex-VIARail snack/buffet car. Overall in fair to good condition, most appliances and seat in good condition, with the exception of the grill. Electrical panels appear to be in good shape and not vandalized. Plenty of dining area and seating.
Car 3242 Ex-VIARail coach, completely stripped of seating, in what appears to have been a dancing space, for open mingling of passengers. One window shattered, but remains in place. Electrical closets and toilets appear to be intact. This car is coupled to 751 and is missing a passenger door. The diaphragms between these two cars have prevented entrance of rain and snow. Door should be replaced.

I would grade these cars as being worthy of repair for private tourist service, but with the understanding that none of them are ready to enter immediate service. Each car is worn, has sat unused for at least ten years in extreme weather. Each car must be professionally cleaned and probably gutted, with the possibility of reinstalling the fixtures for service. Each car needs attention to securing the doors and at least one window in car 3242. I am unable to determine the condition of the braking mechanism, but each car will require a full review of the piping and replacement of brake valves. They will require inspection by a Pan American Rwy. inspector before they can be moved onto Class 1 rails, as CM&Q does not have the ability to perform certified work on passenger cars. I saw no obvious body decay in the undersides of these cars.

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:43 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3749
Location: Maine
January 17, 2017

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Two of the ex-VIARail car interiors

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Observation 107 and car 5738 along with condemned MM&A Diesels awaiting scrapping.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:10 am 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 356
Thanks for the updated photos of Spokane Club. BTW is anyone else surprised that the VIA coaches haven't been spoken for?


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:14 pm 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 4:18 pm
Posts: 428
Location: Illinois
Thanks for the updated photos. Some observations:

I presume the observation car has some sort of one-off heating and cooling system installed, judging from the rectangle box on top of the car, and the stack over the vestibule door. A buyer may have to watch for clearance issues if/when the cars moves off-line.

Note that the boxcar between the obs car and the VIA coach is now gone. Was this a home-made power/HEP car? Was it scrapped?

It is interesting how quickly these cars deteriorate from just standing in place over the years.

Chris


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:11 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5023
There don't seem to be any inside photos of the NP observation car and its rear end (streamlined end observation) section. Any chance for photos?

Les


Last edited by Les Beckman on Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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