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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:11 pm 

Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:08 pm
Posts: 26
Thanks for the info and pictures. Richard if my organization is very interested into the via cars who would I contact? The General Manager Mr. Mowery?

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:17 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
Yes, but send me your email address in a PM, as I have about 40 images for the cars which I'll be glad to share, as well as my assessment. Mr. Mowery would be the man to contact.

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:30 am 
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Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
diningcartim wrote:
At one point there were a couple of ex-CN/VIA "dayniter" coaches in Derby as well. Are they still there or did they depart earlier.
Mr.Pullman wrote:
The...three ex-Via cars remain, and I can confirm this based on my observations while in Derby this past Dec 2016. I can say that the Ex-Via cars were not spoken for at the time of my visit.
rrpreservation wrote:
You wouldn't have gotten the Via Daynighter car numbers by chance?
Mr.Pullman wrote:
I'm sorry to say I did not collect any information off the three Ex-Via cars. I'm sure we have some folks on this Board that have these numbers or live "nearby".
ParlourcarII wrote:
My database shows the 3 daynighters may be;

CNR / VIA # 5738, converted by CNR in 1977 from CNR # 2058 "VAL D'ESPOIRE", originally NYC "SODUS BAY" (22 roomettes)

VIA # 5739 converted by VIA in 1978 from CNR / VIA # 2132 "MOOSE RIVER", originally FEC "VENEZUELA" (10 roomette-6 bedroom)

VIA # 5740 converted by VIA in 1978 from CNR / VIA # 2135 "GRANDE RIVIERE" originally FEC "ORIENTE" (10 roomette-6 bedroom).

In 1996, the 3 cars went to and were assigned Bangor & Aroostook division of Iron Road Railways. The 2 FEC cars were assigned # 105 and 106 respectively, but I have no number for the NYC car. Also I have the 2 FEC cars as going to the Blue Ridge Scenic Railway in 2003.
Richard Glueck wrote:
Car 5738 is an ex VIARail coach.

Car 751 Ex CNR, ex-VIARail snack/buffet car.

Car 3242 Ex-VIARail coach.


Some additional history on all 5 of these ex-VIA cars in question.

Nee-NYC 22RM sleeper #10420 Sodus Bay was built by P-S in October 1948 in Lot #6790 to Plan #4122, and was leased to Pullman for operation. It was withheld from lease in July 1958, and was sold to CN in January 1959 as #2058 and renamed Val D'Espoir. It was rebuilt in 1977 to 52 seat leg rest "Dayniter" chair #5738, then went to VIA as #5738.

Nee-FEC 10RM-6DB sleeper Venezuela was built by P-S in October 1949 in Lot #6814 to Plan #4140 for the SOU pool, was assigned to the Royal Palm, and was leased to Pullman for operation. It was withheld from lease in December 1966, and was sold to CN at that time as #2132 and renamed Moose River, then to VIA #2132. It was later (when??) rebuilt to 44 seat? leg rest "Dayniter" chair #5739. It is indeed now on the Blue Ridge Scenic as #105 (same # as on the BAR).

Nee-FEC 10RM-6DB sleeper Oriente was built by P-S in August 1949 in Lot #6809 to Plan #4140B for the ACL pool, and was leased to Pullman for operation. It was withheld from lease in December 1966, and was sold to CN at that time as #2135 and renamed Grande Riviere, then to VIA #2135. It was later (when??) rebuilt to 44 seat? leg rest "Dayniter" chair #5740. It is indeed now on the Blue Ridge Scenic as #106 (same # as on the BAR).

Nee-CN 80 seat coach #5549 was built by CC&F in 1954 in Lot #2069. It was rebuilt in 1964 to 52 seat coach-buffet (galley)-20 seat lounge #3002, and was rebuilt again in 1968 to 5 seat lunch counter-20 seat diner-22 seat lounge #751. In the 1960's, a number of the 80 seat coaches (218 cars total) built by CC&F in 1954 (from January to July) in Lots #2069 (161 cars, #5437-#5597) and #2099 (57 cars, #5598-#5654) had 4 seats removed and replaced by a vertical luggage rack; I don't know if the #5549 underwent said modification before it was rebuilt for the first time in 1964. Was the #751 sold to the BAR at the same time (1996) as the 3 Dayniter chairs? Thanks in advance!

Nee-CN 80 seat coach #5574 was built by CC&F in 1954 in Lot #2069. From 1964 to 1969, 52 of these 218 cars were modified to snack bar-coaches #3200-#3251 (number of seats unknown; likely 72?) for service in New Brunswick. #5574 was modified to #3242. Later in 1983, VIA once again modified some of these cars to snack bar coaches in the #32xx-series (number of cars modified unknown), but these 1983 #32xx-series numbers did not line up with the 1964 #32xx-series numbers, so I don't know for certain that the car now stored on the BAR is indeed the same car that became the #3242 in 1964, as I don't know exactly how many cars VIA modified as such in 1983. If it was at least 43 cars (i.e. up to and including a second #3242), then this would mean that the car now on the BAR could be either the first or second #3242. If not, then it is most likely the nee-#5574. Was this car sold to the BAR at the same time (1996) as the 3 Dayniter chairs? Thanks in advance!

Sources:

1. "Streamliner Cars Volume One: Pullman Standard" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1981)

2. "Streamliner Cars Volume Three: ACF - Other Builders" by W. David Randall (RPC Publications, 1982)

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Additions and corrections are welcome. Thanks in advance.

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:01 am 
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I just checked another source, "Railway Passenger Car Annual, Volume 6: 1984" by W. David Randall and Elbert Simon (RPC Publications, 1984):

The #3242 is indeed the nee-#5574, and this the #3242 from the later VIA #32xx-series modifications. Interestingly, there are 52 cars listed in this series as well, #3200-#3251. 22 cars (#3200-#3221) were modified in 1981, 22 cars (#3222-#3243) were modified in 1982, and 8 cars (#3244-#3251) were modified in 1983; unfortunately, "RPC Annual, Vol. 6" does not list how many seats the cars had while in this configuration. I'm now wondering if indeed the #32xx-series numbers from 1964 were retained, and were not changed back to the original #5437-series numbers in 1969. So, therefore there are not 2 different sets of #32xx-series numbers, but only 1 set.

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:27 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3745
Location: Maine
I have had many contacts from several tourist roads and shortlines regarding these cars. Whether these inquiries will result in preservation or salvage remains to be seen. I think it's important to note, through this board, a group of interested organizations is getting the chance to review the cars for possible renewal. I hope something good happens as a result of this continued discussion and the additional research provided by contributors.

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:35 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 10:07 am
Posts: 28
CNR # 5574 was renumbered #3247 from 1964 (July) to 1967 (March), then returned to # 5574. The 3200 series were cars were assigned for reserved seating on the "Super Continetal", the beginning of computerized reservations, with limited input in those days. While as # 3247, 4 seats were removed and replaced with a luggage rack.

1982 (Dec) VIA renumbered #3242, which became a 72 seat coach with snck bar.

My listing has 1996 (July) to Iron Road Railways and assigned Iowa Northern division

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:52 am 
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Thanks, Richard, for the clarification!

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:50 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
To bring this around to a close (of sorts), I received a message the office manager of CM&Q, in Bangor, this past Friday. I was told the N.P. Observation has been redeemed by the owner, and he has also expressed his desire to take the VIA Rail cars which were languishing at Derby. So while it's not a completely happy ending, total destruction has been delayed, if not stopped altogether.

I want to point out, three (count 'em, three) separate groups stepped forward to adopt these cars, and put them back in service. RYPN had a great deal to do with getting the word out. This board serves a critical function in the railroad preservation community. Whatever happens to these cars now, it won't be because we didn't pay attention and make the effort to help.

Thanks, everyone.

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2017 5:06 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 351
So Iron Road reclaimed them? I wasn't even sure they still were an entity. I'll bet they had to pay quite a bit for storage to get them back.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Sat Apr 29, 2017 7:07 am 
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Thanks, Richard, for the update!

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:37 pm 

Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:31 am
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Location: Morganton, N.C.
Been awfully quiet about these cars so I thought I would throw out the link below, in hope that more info can be gained. The shot shows the car with the Great Lakes Railcar Repair Service Inc. reporting mark applied, image taken by John Barlow 19 June 2017... wonder where they stand in getting the cars moved.

http://photos.nerail.org/showpic/?photo=2017062106263710416.jpg

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 8:56 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
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Location: Maine
Jim, that's a good shot! Glad to see something happening.

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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 10:34 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2004 4:49 pm
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To my knowledge, only the ex-NP Spokane Club has been sold to new owners. It will be heading back to home territory in the Pacific Northwest in a few weeks after a very long stay in Maine (over 40 years). This group is very excited to have saved a significant piece of Northern Pacific history.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:44 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 351
One of the important lessons (although perhaps a bit overstated) I have taken from the situation in Derby compared to the very quick RBBB dispersal is that up-to-date COTS, recent truck and wheel work etc. is more important than the original fabric of the interior in provoking interest from preservation groups.


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 Post subject: Re: Northern Pacific Observation Car Spokane Club in Derby M
PostPosted: Mon Jul 17, 2017 8:36 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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"One of the important lessons (although perhaps a bit overstated) I have taken from the situation in Derby compared to the very quick RBBB dispersal is that up-to-date COTS, recent truck and wheel work etc. is more important than the original fabric of the interior in provoking interest from preservation groups that know what they're doing and can be expected to succeed."

Fixed that for you. >;-)


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