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 Post subject: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 9:21 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:32 pm
Posts: 6
Hello

Me and a group of friends have decided to form a trust to rebuild GTW 5629 from the rails up. Our original plan was to find an engine to mock up as 5629, but every engine we looked at is already taken be someone else and being restored. Our only option now is to actually build a replica. I'm looking for any useful information about her design or history. Every little bit counts.

I understand that building a replica is not an easy or cheap task and will require a lot of workers, time, and money. I am learning everything I can ahead of time, and I plan to launch the organization in 2020 or so.

If you can, please spread the word about the 5629 trust.


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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:59 am 

Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:28 pm
Posts: 168
Location: Northern WV
There is a group attempting to build a PRR T1 duplex from scratch. They have already cast a driver and have cut the material for the cab. They seem to have thought out the details and it might behoove you to check out their Facebook page as well as their web site for what steps they have taken.
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/t1locomotive/

Web: https://prrt1steamlocomotivetrust.org/

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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:02 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2017 5:32 pm
Posts: 6
I have seen the duplex trust do that, and it's really cool! They were a huge inspiration for the trust.


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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:29 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2012 10:38 pm
Posts: 234
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I am entirely all for the idea of new builds, and I truly believe they are the way many preservation lines will need to think about steam locomotives in the future. When it comes to 5629 however, wouldnt it be better to try to acquire one of the other two surviving GTW pacifics, restore it, and then just change the number? It would save some money, is an easier task, and would allow a stuffed and mounted steam locomotive to return to live rail again. I cant speak for the group that owns it, but 5632 might be possible to acquire. I believe it is the same class and type as 5629

Whatever happens with this, I wish you the best of luck and would love to watch this locomotive move on the rails again!


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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:57 pm 

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2004 7:24 am
Posts: 478
Location: Canada
Exactly what I was thinking, why would you build a 5629 when there is a near identical 5632? At first I thought this post was an early April fools joke. Build something long lost, like a NYC Hudson, then you might garner some interest.


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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:04 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2165
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Bdesantis5629, please tell us about yourself and your experience in the field of historic railroads.

The information you seek about 5629 is readily available on the net and in various publications. It's (sad) history is well-documented.

The primary thing you need to develop is the ability to actually raise about $10 million for this project; to have a real plan as to how you will accomplish that, and what your group will do with the replica locomotive once it is completed.

The "metal-bending" is comparatively easy; the funding and project planning is not.

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:18 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2431
Finderskeepers wrote:
Exactly what I was thinking, why would you build a 5629 when there is a near identical 5632? At first I thought this post was an early April fools joke. Build something long lost, like a NYC Hudson, then you might garner some interest.


So, let's see... It appears we have two options here.

1) Build a new 5629 from scratch. Your cost estimate: $10 million.

2) Make 5632 into 5629. Cost: $10 worth of paint from Home Depot.
OK, obviously you'd need more than that. But think about what $10 million could do. Let's say it costs half of what the new one does. (I have no idea of acquisition costs, what work needs done, etc, but I do know that $5M can get a lot done). Then you take the other $5 million and build a shop, $2M. Have operating funds $2M. Lease passenger equipment for operation $1M. (Again, total ballpark numbers, but conservative).

Under scenario 2, you have an engine, a place to store it, coaches to pull and money to operate.

Why we would choose the first option again?


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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:25 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2165
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Just for informational purposes, 5632 and 5629, both based on the USRA Light Pacific design, are slightly different: 5632 has an all-weather cab and a welded tender (designed to accommodate the all-weather cab).

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:39 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2165
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
One big, unanswered question: Where will it operate?

NS steam operations are limited; a couple of proven engines and their proven crews are given a few days a year out on the mainline.

CSX: fugeddaboutit.

UP: Their own brand only.

BNSF: See NS, above.

KCS: Unknown. (or at least, not publicized)

GNWR shortlines and regionals: See CSX, above. And, they keep gobbling up more "independents" (P&W in New England, recently).

So, once again, Where will it operate?

There is plenty to accomplish in the heritage and steam railway field, plenty of already-existing, deserving projects and organizations. Why consider rebuilding 5629? Because it was a sad story? A tragic case of someone not knowing when to step aside and let others take care of an artifact? The story is compelling, but I can't see it raising multi-millions.

Someone who used to post on this board (and rather thoughtfully, too) wrote the real epitaph for 5629, shortly after it was reduced to #1 grade heavy melting scrap: "5629's fate was sealed the day it was sold to an individual with limited resources."

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:59 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:20 am
Posts: 18
From Charles Foss's book: Evening Before the Diesel

GTW No.s 5627 - 5631, Class K-4-a, Alco, 1924; TE 40,750 lbs.

GTW No.s 5632 - 5634, Class K-4-b, Baldwin, 1929; TE 43,750 lbs.

Primary differences other than builder being that the later K-4-b class (5632) had boiler pressure increased to 215 psi, over the earlier K-4-a class (5629) at 200 psi and the K-4-b class being heavier (514,300 lbs. in working order vs. 488,300 lbs.).


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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 3:42 pm 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2079
I'm trying to recall if Jensen had modified 5629 just a bit about some detail or something here or there.

I think its very cool interest like this pops up like the T1 trust when we think the interest is dying down, things like this pop.

I tend to like the idea putting the challenge on to build new steam, put the industry on the mark for the challenge, wake up the railroads about this kind of motive power and the work to try to make a new effecient steam engine like the ACE.

Push your project find people, support and skills to do it all, you will not be able to do it alone.


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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:01 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3728
Location: Maine
Okay, 5629 is done, gone, history. There remain two examples in display settings. Why renumber either. Tell their stories instead! also...

If you are going to start from scratch, go with a NYC Hudson or Niagara. Also...

There are a number of restorations underway that could use support. I am rather positive regarding one in particular. Then there's the T1 project, and the 2100, 2102, 614, and others too numerous to mention; all of which need friends. Also...

What's your experience? What does you group bring to the table? What are your skills? How will you fund this? I like the idea, but perhaps you should build a shelter for these exposed locomotives first, collect data, make friends, write a plan. Locomotive restoration is the hardest work I've ever done. Also...

did you ever report finding a Pennsy B8a in a quarry?

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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 7:06 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
Posts: 2447
Location: S.F. Bay Area
I think building a new 5629 would be trying to unwind a mistake that did happen, and pretending that irrevocable mistakes can be unwound. That just isn't so. Better that railway preservation own the mistake and direct our energy to making sure it never happens again. Not least, by developing sanctuary facilities so that engines don't have to live at distressed or endangered locations like this.


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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 8:28 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:14 pm
Posts: 55
The T1 project is unique because the engine was really in a class of its own, and as such, makes a great candidate for new builds. A Niagara or a Dreyfuss Hudson would also stand out as good candidates. A run of the mill USRA pacific that just happened to be scrapped in the 80's does not really stand out to me. Not when there are 2 others left.

Any 1860's era engine would be fantastic, not a whole lot is left from that era, even as late as some of the mainline atlantic's and mogals. There is a bit of a lost era there with only a few examples and few operate. Or better yet, raise money for the T1 group, lets make it a true reality, not just a collection of parts. That would be a far better use of your time.


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 Post subject: Re: GTW 5629 Trust
PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:43 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 9:16 am
Posts: 467
Location: Northern Illinois
[quote="Bdesantis5629"]Hello

Me and a group of friends have decided to form a trust to rebuild GTW 5629 from the rails up. Our original plan was to find an engine to mock up as 5629, but every engine we looked at is already taken be someone else and being restored. Our only option now is to actually build a replica. I'm looking for any useful information about her design or history. Every little bit counts.

I understand that building a replica is not an easy or cheap task and will require a lot of workers, time, and money. I am learning everything I can ahead of time, and I plan to launch the organization in 2020 or so.

If you can, please spread the word about the 5629 trust.[/quote]

Approach the Smithsonian and maybe they will let you modify SR 1401 into GTW 5629. After all, turnabout is fair play........ ;^)


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