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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:17 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 1813
"I assume that line was aimed at my “Latest from the Strasburg Rail Road Shops” posts. Would you prefer that I cease and desist for the purity of the forum? Since we do work for other organizations, anything we do and anything I post could be construed as an advertisement, while most other organizations could post the same material and it would be applauded since without contract work, for them it wouldn’t be “advertising”."

Good grief, no.

A photographic exhibition of fine craftsmanship, the recreation of lost patterns and the application of new, avant garde technologies to the service of preserving, maintaining or restoring antique machines, illustrating the possible should be considered a fine thing.

If somebody happens to get the idea that your core competencies are applicable to their needs and they and you ink a contract, that's a happy accident. There's a big difference between showing a little leg, and solicitation.

I've yet to see a post of yours that either explicitly solicits business, attempts to distinguish SRC from competitors (to the extent that there are any) or attempts to diminish other vendors.

Cliff Keen says "keep wrestling", I say "keep posting".


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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:01 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:06 pm
Posts: 138
co614 wrote:
I felt strongly that " selective editing" was severely abusing my right to defend myself.
If the folks you refer to had gotten some legal advice, and been told that "selective editing" on an internet forum is not a valid Federal cause of action, perhaps things would be different here.

When will people realize there is no First Amendment right to say what you want on an Internet board?

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Fireman, New Hope Valley Railway


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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:39 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:41 pm
Posts: 107
I agree and disagree with the substance of the OP.

I agree that far too often do threads degrade into a mud-slinging/name-calling fest over utter and complete BS...like digging up a topic from 2006 just to get keyboard jab in at one particular individual. I think collectively, that is something that all of us could see less of. We're never going to see eye to eye, but it does not give anyone a right to be uncivil. We're adults, let's start acting like them.

I disagree in that RYPN's purpose is entirely subjective. Just because you don't like and/or find a particular topic interesting isn't cause enough to assume that the site as a whole is "dying" IMHO. Ignore it and scroll down until you hit one that blows your skirt up. Topic diversity keeps things interesting right, wrong or indifferent.

RYPN is and always will be an internet forum. You're never going to get away from the downsides of one. Take the good with the bad and keep moving forward.

DC


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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2508
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Kelly Anderson wrote:
I assume that line was aimed at my “Latest from the Strasburg Rail Road Shops” posts. Would you prefer that I cease and desist for the purity of the forum? Since we do work for other organizations, anything we do and anything I post could be construed as an advertisement, while most other organizations could post the same material and it would be applauded since without contract work, for them it wouldn’t be “advertising”.


Not in any way. That "shot" was aimed at someone else who doesn't really participate here anymore. I see your "latest" posts as a way to show what you are doing, which in turn leads into usually interesting discussion. SRR has always been good about sharing knowledge and not trying to monopolize it.

There's a huge difference between "The Latest from our Shops" and "From the Shameless Commerce Division of XYZ Railroad Contractors." Perhaps, it is the subtlety in approach.

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"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"

-FDR When nominating Alfred E. Smith for President.


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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8697
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
My vague recollection at the time--and this was from when I was more or less screaming the facts cited by Brother DeGaetano at the resigning board members to get it through their skulls--was that the "selective editing" in question did not extend to modifying the words of Rowland to construe something else defamatory (say, "I eat babies and kittens alive with hot sauce"), but rather simply deleting a couple posts where Rowland himself made claims either totally off-topic or potentially defamatory in their own right.

I've had posts deleted. It comes with the turf when you're dealing with this stuff, just as I had a sole spot on my "permanent record" for defending myself against being beaten up by a bully and he cut himself on my wrist-watch band.

The irony of such threats is, indeed, a sure-fire way to completely lose otherwise earned respect. I really, REALLY have no respect for such bullies, even as some of them are currently occupying high places in governments and concurrently using "aw, shucks" humor and populism to continue to nurse a throng of followers and mask their more egregious behavior.


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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:54 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2508
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
The irony of such threats is, indeed, a sure-fire way to completely lose otherwise earned respect. I really, REALLY have no respect for such bullies, even as some of them are currently occupying high places in governments and concurrently using "aw, shucks" humor and populism to continue to nurse a throng of followers and mask their more egregious behavior.


For those of you who want real life examples of the above, Google "Streisand Effect"

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David M. Wilkins

"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"

-FDR When nominating Alfred E. Smith for President.


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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:23 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2225
Location: Northern Illinois
Steve DeGaetano wrote:
co614 wrote:
I felt strongly that " selective editing" was severely abusing my right to defend myself.
If the folks you refer to had gotten some legal advice, and been told that "selective editing" on an internet forum is not a valid Federal cause of action, perhaps things would be different here.

When will people realize there is no First Amendment right to say what you want on an Internet board?


The problem with this is, while what you say is true, it doesn't recognize the reality of the situation. Few of us can afford to be sued over a hobby endeavor. Yeah, maybe it would only cost a hundred or two to get that legal advice, but when the lawyer then continues that it shouldn't cost more than a grand for him to go to court to try to get the suit dismissed, people have to decide when to cut their losses, and the best place is before they even start. Especially when they size up their adversary and realize that any guy that can afford to own and store his own personal chooch likely has more money to spend on this than they do.

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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2508
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Dennis Storzek wrote:

The problem with this is, while what you say is true, it doesn't recognize the reality of the situation. Few of us can afford to be sued over a hobby endeavor. Yeah, maybe it would only cost a hundred or two to get that legal advice, but when the lawyer then continues that it shouldn't cost more than a grand for him to go to court to try to get the suit dismissed, people have to decide when to cut their losses, and the best place is before they even start. Especially when they size up their adversary and realize that any guy that can afford to own and store his own personal chooch likely has more money to spend on this than they do.


The two individuals who made legal threats to RYPN, its administrators, forum members and others know this. That's why they make the threat. They know that even if they are wrong, they still win, because most people do not have the financial resources to fight, even if they can win.

My whole point is that letting the two offending parties continue to participate in the forum is letting them win.

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"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"

-FDR When nominating Alfred E. Smith for President.


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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:37 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2225
Location: Northern Illinois
A separate post, because these comments don't really fit in the legal discussion, but I'll also state that I enjoy the "What's new at Strasburg" posts, and have never viewed them as advertisements. Plus the fact that Kelly, and others of the Strasburg crew, can be counted on to chime in and share their expertise in other discussions, something I never recall the other party alluded to doing.

Part of the problem being discussed, the signal to noise ratio, is because this is a community of people with common interests, and when there isn't any late breaking news at the moment, they tend to bring up other topics. It's only natural. Before anyone says it's getting worse, think back and recall the steady stream of photos of long departed subjects that used to be posted, with either the question, "did it survive?" or "wouldn't it have been nice?" RyPN has always had a certain amount of chaff to wade through.

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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:07 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 22, 2010 5:06 pm
Posts: 138
Dennis Storzek wrote:
Steve DeGaetano wrote:
co614 wrote:
I felt strongly that " selective editing" was severely abusing my right to defend myself.
If the folks you refer to had gotten some legal advice, and been told that "selective editing" on an internet forum is not a valid Federal cause of action, perhaps things would be different here.

When will people realize there is no First Amendment right to say what you want on an Internet board?


The problem with this is, while what you say is true, it doesn't recognize the reality of the situation. Few of us can afford to be sued over a hobby endeavor.


But you're also assuming he'd be able to find a lawyer to take such a ridiculous case. There are lawyers (thankfully) who turn down cases that have no merit.

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Steve DeGaetano
Fireman, New Hope Valley Railway


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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:33 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2508
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Steve DeGaetano wrote:
But you're also assuming he'd be able to find a lawyer to take such a ridiculous case. There are lawyers (thankfully) who turn down cases that have no merit.


I doubt he'd have a problem. Trust me, I know.

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David M. Wilkins

"They Love Him for the Enemies He Has Made!"

-FDR When nominating Alfred E. Smith for President.


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 Post subject: And where else can we get technical info?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 6:22 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:37 pm
Posts: 251
Location: Niles Canyon Railway, near Sunol, CA
The technical info exchanges are info I cannot get anywhere else. Technology, safety and environmental regulations, relative labor costs, and repair techniques have all evolved tremendously. Old locomotive and carbuilder's cyclopedias can tell you what worked well 100 years ago, but not what the best current solutions are, and what the current tradeoffs are.

The recent "Toilets on railcars" discussion, "Latest from the Strasburg Shops", etc all inform us of what our options are.

Without these info sources, a lot of us would waste way too much time and money trying to re-invent these solutions.

- Doug Debs


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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:13 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1087
Location: Pacific, MO
Kelly's postings from the Strasburg is one of the things I anxiously await. I always enjoy seeing photos of restoration and rework being done.
There is a lot of sniping and snarkiness that goes on here which I don't enjoy. There are some folks who are really full of themselves and you won't find a web site without people like that. Every web site has their group of "World's Greatest Authorities" on something or everything.
Sometimes I'm reminded of something I saw in Model Railroader where someone wrote in and bitched about prototype photos. In my mind I asked what the hell are you modeling?
I'll just sit back and let this rant go on.
Kelly if you take your postings elsewhere, let me know via PM where you have gone. I thoroughly enjoy your photos, both from a steam viewpoint and a life in the machine tool industry.
I miss LRRP.


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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 9:41 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 9:06 pm
Posts: 2218
Location: Thomaston & White Plains
Kelly, the SRC updates are always welcome, and enjoyable. Please keep them coming.

RyPN is not perfect; what is? But it works well enough for now. I look forward to some of the possible improvements and revamps.

If there are threads or discussions that don't interest you, don't read them. It's unfortunate that we have things I consider nonsense here (MEC 2-6-6-2s in the Connecticut River, or building a replica GTW 4-6-2), but I simply ignore them, the way I ignore such chaff in other reaches of the interwebs.

Thanks again to those who choose to keep using this forum and providing good, useful information and content.

Howard P.

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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:56 am 

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:28 am
Posts: 242
Location: Suffolk, UK
For someone not even located in North America, I find the forum to be of interest as it highlights topics that I would otherwise be unaware of - the US Army "knock down" cars for European use being a recent case in point.
Certainly the level of discussion is well above similar forums that I look at or am a member of, so I hope it well continue.....

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