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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 3:14 pm 

Joined: Sun May 15, 2005 2:22 pm
Posts: 1315
I am not the least bit concerned that someone would post under an assumed username. It is a non-issue. I disagree with the notion that using a made up username is somehow unfair to those who claim to use their real name, or detracts from the credibility of the person using the assumed name.

I judge the content of a post only by how the poster makes the case, based on my own knowledge of the subject. Using a real name does not certify that the poster’s comments are valid. It does not mean that the person using their real name is the default winner of a debate with someone using an assumed name.

But if this is really a problem, then by all means, let’s have a new rule made. Anybody posting under an assumed username will have their comments moved to the Railfanning section by the moderators.


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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:05 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1004
Quote:
"So let me get this straight. I'm not supposed to use a pseudonym of my choosing, but you can hurl gratitous insults names of your choosing?"


No, not at all. Did I not make it clear that the moderators have made clear to me that you (or anyone else on RyPN) have a right to a pseudonym of your choosing, and that it is the value of a post or contribution, and not any name or outside reputation attached to it, which gives it value here?

On the other hand, it is very clear that you provided the pun-on-bile-pigment yourself, and shouldn't expect not to have me 'riff' on it a bit. You'll have to confess they're at least as funny as the original.

And yes, I was left aghast at the "Ms. Superheater" business. THAT was a gratuitous (note sp.) insult, and I for one think you'd be entitled to an apology for it.

When I joined this board, it was made very clear that I would be expected to use my own name on posts, and I accordingly put my real name in the signature (which seems to have disappeared in the current version of phpBB formatting I have been using; I'll see if I can fix that). I think there is something of a difference between people who use pseudonyms because they legitimately risk professional consequences for posts they contribute here and people who think information theft or hacking would attend their name's mention on an Internet board -- on the other hand, there's certainly adequate grounds (Ron Travis, who just posted, might care to share some of his experience in this regard on the Trains Magazine forums) to worry about personal attacks from other forum readers or participants, which might easily leave the realm of on-list or PM discussion and turn into something more 'personal'. For those who worry about that, who am I to tell them 'not to worry'?

Likewise, I think an idea like 'mandatory banishment to railfanning' is a bit extreme. This is America, and if someone wants to use a handle or avatar for personal reasons, it's his (or her) decision. As I think has been pointed out here, if something in preservation has merit, it will be recognized or affirmed by others here even if the original source can't be identified as 'trusted'. And certainly, too, there is a long history of excellent engineering advice from people known mainly by pseudonyms (tubalcain and LBSC come quickly to mind) - why should 'superheater' be any different?

One important thing about RyPN is that the focus in posting is supposed to be about sharing information, not showing off how much someone knows for one-upsmanship or denigrating people with which one happens to disagree. That makes it, in principle, much better than many other sites. Would that we concentrate on the former.

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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:16 pm 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
Posts: 1004
I split the reply into two pieces because they concern very different things.

Quote:
"The point of the link wasn't that it doesn't work or not work, but that it describes something that Ross says will exist, but doesn't exist and has no prospects of existing, in short, his statements require proof."


But it's something he cared enough about to work out, and in some respects to share methodology about, which makes it valuable as a piece of history.

Yes, I'd like it if Mr. Rowland gave a full explanation of what happened with the Yellow Ribbon Express project, as he started to do with the Greenbrier Express project, both to update the file and site superheater quoted and to describe any preservation-related topics here. I'd like to find out exactly what happened with the passenger-car shop activity in Pottstown, at least to the extent it tells about things useful in either preservation or effective museum/tourist-railroad development efforts. It's up to him to decide whether he wants to 'put his name behind' those descriptions.

What I'm a bit less sure of is the degree to which general statements by Mr. Rowland might be deemed less valuable because some of his projects haven't panned out fully. That is really little different as an 'argument to authority' than to give him enhanced credence because of the successful work he has done. What he says will stand or fall in this forum strictly because of its merit to "the work".

Now, do I trust that some new project, like the CNG locomotive project, will be conducted sensibly, with some of the recent high-profile Rowland projects ending as they have? That's another matter entirely, and not really germane to the Interchange part of this list.

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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:35 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 504
Location: Wall, NJ
Just for my own curiosity, I took a look a superheater’s postings over the years and unless I missed something, I don't see where he ever actually reported on doing any real dirty work with his own two hands. Certainly not of the caliber of Kelly, Rick, Ross, Scott, me, Christian, and a host of others who post here. Yet, he seems quite willing to report on the work done by others. I'm OK with reporting on others if that is all you can muster, there is a need for that, but then he seems willing to poke holes in work actually done by others.

Again, I stand by my previous statement. The problem with RyPN is people like superheater, and the apparent arm chair quarterbacks, who hide in the shadows, ready to launch a crappy comment at the expense of others who actually do something. Let us that do actual work, or provide the cash to do so, provide updates without the threat of crappy responses or attacks. This is the issue killing RyPN.

J.R. May


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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:19 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1087
Location: Pacific, MO
This is the sort of thing you will find in many groups. The people who actually have done the work over the years rarely ever criticize, nitpick or wish ill will on other people or groups.
I've noticed over the years that the "armchair experts" are the squeaky wheel. They will be the one who walks up while you're working on your engine or servicing with lots of free advice and the "why didn't you do it this way"? They will tell you how you should run your engine, firing advice and other useful info. If you ask them what their experience or background is they suddenly find someplace else to go.
Every hobby and industry have these and a lot of us have learned to ignore them unless they push that last button.


JR May wrote:
Just for my own curiosity, I took a look a superheater’s postings over the years and unless I missed something, I don't see where he ever actually reported on doing any real dirty work with his own two hands. Certainly not of the caliber of Kelly, Rick, Ross, Scott, me, Christian, and a host of others who post here. Yet, he seems quite willing to report on the work done by others. I'm OK with reporting on others if that is all you can muster, there is a need for that, but then he seems willing to poke holes in work actually done by others.

Again, I stand by my previous statement. The problem with RyPN is people like superheater, and the apparent arm chair quarterbacks, who hide in the shadows, ready to launch a crappy comment at the expense of others who actually do something. Let us that do actual work, or provide the cash to do so, provide updates without the threat of crappy responses or attacks. This is the issue killing RyPN.

J.R. May


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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1702
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
Mr. May you're spot on as are you Frisco 1522. Every industry has its Monday morning quarterbacks such as superheater and that's just life. You're also right that all of them added together have never produced nor financed anything meaningful.

Their purpose in life is to find the fly poop in the pepper grinds.

If the site update efforts needs some financial help I'll be glad to pitch in providing that the revised site requires posters to use real ( and verified) names.

Thanks, Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:55 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8690
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
Given his past history with this site, I would move that the site shut down rather than take the funding of a vexatious litigant.

But then that would just give him what he tried for anyway. Just refuse his money.


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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:19 am 
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I'd like to apologize for my last (now deleted) post. It was born of frustration and was ill-considered. I've also unlocked the topic and will leave it to the other moderators to deal with it, if they wish to.

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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:02 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1356
Location: Strasburg, PA
Please reconsider. This thread should have been locked a couple of pages ago.
Kelly Anderson wrote:
Never the less, in my opinion, Rypn is nowhere near dying. As far as I am concerned the biggest threat to its future at this time are these types of threads where everyone gets all worked up over examining our own belly button lint. All of the raised blood pressure reduces the chances of someone with something worthwhile to add on a preservation subject from posting because of his frustration due to this kind of thread.

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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 12:21 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5418
Location: southeastern USA
Let them get it out of their systems, Kelly.... and in the process make their personalities more clear to us all, so that we can better consider the value of any of their posts.

If nothing else, the passion on parade demonstrates there's no lack of interest in this site.

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Andrea Hairston


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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 2:57 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2382
I am self-locking. After reading Doug's post and considering all the years of valuable material posted to RYPN, I have decided never to participate in a thread like this again.

What bothers me about RYPN has nothing to do with RYPN and has everything to do with my desire to see a stronger preservation community develop... one that doesn't eat its own (at least not so frequently). The problems over the years have never been about the site, itself.

You don't go into battle with the RYPN you want, you go with the one you have.

I've decided to enjoy the one we have to its fullest.

Viva RYPN!

Rob

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Last edited by robertjohndavis on Mon Feb 13, 2017 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
Posts: 510
Location: Byers, Colorado
I probably should know better than to reply to a "rambling rant", having been with RyPN from the start. I'm going to try and make this simple.

The one thing I dislike about RyPN is all the childish bitching and squabbling. Most of the time the poster could make his point better if he were more tactful. HOWEVER, I've been guilty, and most of the time, whomever I got into it with is at least willing to meet me half way if I try being courteous to them. The only guy to really piss me off is somebody who won't sign their real name, but his fan club knows who he is. No problem.

NOW, what's good about RyPN ???

1) It's free
2) There is no cyber booby trapped software
3) There are no ads, spams, or scams, either
4) I have made many new friends
5) I have caught up with some old friends
6) I have learned at least a few things, or been corrected once or twice with cause
7) RyPN helped me to try and salvage my failed preservation project many years ago. Although I was destined to get the shaft, they have undoubtedly been successful in helping many others.
8) RyPN played matchmaker for me 20 years latter, I actually got my life back (the saddletanker of my dreams) because of it
9) PUBLICATION.

I'm the guy that the railfan magazine clique wouldn't publish. RyPN never paid me in money, but besides items 1) through 8), Hume Kading debugged my home computer and taught me how to get some useful work out of it.

There were many ways in which I vastly preferred being published by RyPN to having my stuff in one of those hobby shop magazines. For one thing, I did not have my material changed by editors who did not know what I was writing about as well as I did (and of course I got credit for their mistakes when they were printed in my name). Another thing I liked was being able to include as many pictures as I wanted, without having them cropped or squeezed to fit in between ads. Finally, I liked having my articles available for free to any of my friends anywhere in the world, instantly.

I say keep RyPN like it is, it's about the only thing on the web that still maintains a favorable PAIN TO PLEASURE RATIO.

I also neglected to mention, RyPN has free classifieds, too. Looks like the good far outweighs the bad.

Take Care & WORK SAFE

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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:30 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2506
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
steaminfo wrote:
I'd like to apologize for my last (now deleted) post. It was born of frustration and was ill-considered. I've also unlocked the topic and will leave it to the other moderators to deal with it, if they wish to.


Doug,

Thank you. Besides all of the issues, I do think this thread has been productive. I hope Kelly Lynch and others working on a new "front end" for the site are successful.


Also, since when has "making statements with limited facts" been a violation of the board's standards, warranting locking of a thread? If that were the car 99% of these threads would be locked. Seems like a wishy standard for abuse by your co-moderator.

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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:16 pm 

Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2013 10:18 pm
Posts: 70
Is all of RYPN's data backed up somewhere -- preferably in several locations?

I really, really hope so, as it would be a real shame if it weren't and a hacker took this site down and / or the data got corrupted and could not be recovered.

"as12" asked this very important question on Page 3 of this thread (on Tues., Feb. 07, 2017, at 12:06 pm) and never got an answer.

TIA!

Re: using real names:

Not going to happen here. Ever. Would take a gigantic amount of work by whoever does the verifying, all unpaid, because there is no way RYPN has both enough people and enough money to pay for all the work that verifying identities requires. And this sword cuts both ways. Submitting private and personal and very sensitive information to RYPN (or any site) requires those who submit all that info to place a huge amount of trust in those who read all that private and sensitive personal info. Therefore -- every person who is involved in verifying IDs should be investigated thoroughly by a trustworthy agency, and be bonded and carry a lot of liability insurance, before ever being allowed to read even one piece of personal info anyone has submitted. And just exactly WHO is going to place that HUGE amount of trust in people no one knows?

It sure looks to me as though none of you who demand that everyone be required to always use their real names on this site has ever thought through any of this.

And, each one of you who is demanding we all use only our real names on this site should post how much training each of you have had in Information Technology and in IT security. This is very important so each of us can evaluate whether we should take your demands seriously -- just as we do when we ask someone to tell us what experience they have in hands-on work before we will take their recommendations seriously.

And, As Bob Harbison said so well on Page 5 of this thread (on Fri., Feb. 10, 2017, at 3:14 pm):

"Whether somebody uses a real name, a fake name or an alias, you still get a pretty good idea of their bias and credibility after they've posted a while. Since there's really no way to establish actual author ID, it's silly to keep tilting at this particular windmill.

Sincerely
Abe Lincoln"

It is not necessary to use one's real name in order to establish credibility.

"Groucho Marx"


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 Post subject: Re: RYPN as a Useful Forum is Dying (A Rambling Rant)
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:09 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8690
Location: Somewhere north of Prescott, AZ on the Santa Fe "Peavine"
A year later, I can count at least four major "saves" that happened in the past year precisely because of RyPN Interchange, and NOT Facebook--and a fifth is under way with L&A 503.
You still want to say it's "dying"?
Or is it rail preservation and/or the fragmentation of online discussion itself that is having the problems, and not RyPN?


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