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 Post subject: Colorado & Southern wood passenger car, boxcars need a home
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:59 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 25, 2004 11:06 pm
Posts: 207
Location: Bendena KS
Here we go again with the seemingly ubiquitous plea to save some formerly preserved equipment in imminent danger of scrapping.

Before everyone freaks out and starts down the road about "should have started earlier etc", please understand that this is truly a last ditch attempt. I have spent two years and several thousand dollars trying to find homes for this equipment. It has been advertised, every museum in the area has been contacted multiple times etc. Everything was looking good until a week or so ago. Several legitimate and known groups had stated that they wanted the cars, truckers had been lined up price quotes firmed up etc, and then they all dropped off the face of the earth, months after saying they were taking the cars. Now I am left with three whole weeks to figure out something else. I do not want to scrap the cars, but I'm not sure there is any other option at this point.

Cars are located in Boulder Colorado and absolutely must be removed from their present location by March 31.

The cars are;

Colorado & Southern passenger coach 543

Colorado & Southern wood boxcar, number unknown, from the 14000 series

Colorado & Southern steel boxcar 1771

All are complete with trucks, couplers and brakes. All are in need of major work.

Any thoughts or interest, let me know

Jason Midyette


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 Post subject: Re: Colorado & Southern wood passenger car, boxcars need a h
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:10 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 2:42 am
Posts: 1671
Location: Seattle, WA - Land of Coffee
Good luck, Jason! Hopefully someone out there is interested!

Regarding #543, I think there are 2 or 3 other cars from that same Class/Lot elsewhere in the state. Let me check my notes and I'll get back to you.

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Ted Brumberg


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 Post subject: Re: Colorado & Southern wood passenger car, boxcars need a h
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:15 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 315
I used to live 15 miles from there. I know of someone on this board (I don't know him personally) who expressed interest in the wood Pullman on his facebook pages and actually already has its sister car, C&S #57, at his base about 100 miles away (that should tell you who it is). I can't speak for him, but if he would be willing to at least store it, why not do a fundraiser, quickly, and then take as much as you can afford? I would donate to it. The C&S steel boxcar is actually a rarity, built at the CB&Q Havelock shops.

On his facebook, he mentioned approaching the city of Cheyenne to try to get some help moving the Pullman, to no avail. I halfway wonder if he has thrown up his hands, and is waiting for the Pullman to be scrapped because he needs trucks for the car he already has.


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 Post subject: Re: Colorado & Southern wood passenger car, boxcars need a h
PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 6:45 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 1868
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
I found this picture. Looks like you started some work on 543.

http://bvrhs.tumblr.com/post/65689425731/colorado-southern-543-roof-rib-repair

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Steven Harrod
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Danmarks Tekniske Universitet
Institut for Systemer, Produktion, og Ledelse


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 Post subject: Re: Colorado & Southern wood passenger car, boxcars need a h
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:50 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:12 am
Posts: 653
Location: cheyenne
I guess i am being spoken about here, we are moving the UP Caboose 3171 this week at MY own expense, Car 543 we would love BUT its on trucks, requires 2 cranes at either end of its 100 mile journey and costs approx $7-10,000 to move....then where do you put it it can only be moved once..... Yes we do have a potential place for it on track next to the C&S spur through Cheyenne and yes we did have a donation towards it.
In NO way would i ever want to split a car from its trucks just to get trucks for 57, the recent scrapping or should i say disgraceful wrecking of cars at Steamtown would have given us the opportunity of trucks except that no one can get anything from a nationally funded operation like this so those cars were demolished and totally lost.

I already have caboose 2516, 2409 being rebuilt for a customer, 3171 arriving on tuesday and 2701 arriving in May or June, am project managing 0577 for Wasatch railroad contractors......and i have one paid helper and no volunteers.

$10,000 from a nice person would see 543 in Cheyenne somewhere. How many ways do i split my time ??


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 Post subject: Re: Colorado & Southern wood passenger car, boxcars need a h
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:07 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 220
car57 wrote:
... the recent scrapping or should i say disgraceful wrecking of cars at Steamtown would have given us the opportunity of trucks except that no one can get anything from a nationally funded operation like this so those cars were demolished and totally lost.


car57 - Back in August, you had reached out to NPS Preservation Specialist Bruce Mowbray via FB. Did your efforts yield any parts for your pieces back in the silo? Who did you wind up making contact with? What was the response from the Park Service? What was the process for salvaging what was left after the subcontractor ripped into the artifacts with the backhoe? Please consider sharing your experience as a guide to others who may have an interest in items at the site. Thank you.


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 Post subject: Re: Colorado & Southern wood passenger car, boxcars need a h
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 6:50 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 315
I would never volunteer anyone for extra work. I lived in the area for 12 years and actually worked as a truck driver for a company with a big empty lot about the size of a football field with a few old wrecked cars etc. in Commerce City when I was a grad student but that was 13 years ago and I have no idea what is there now. I am at a loss to understand why someone hasn't spoken for the coach yet. I am guessing the museum in Golden has been contacted. What about this outfit that just acquired a steamer to run on the rebuilt C&S in Como? Wrong gauge but that can be remedied.

A destination with someone who gives a s$%^ about it could fix one of two main problems. The second problem is cost and coordination. Jason, have you set up a fundraiser for any of the cars for moving etc?


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 Post subject: Re: Colorado & Southern wood passenger car, boxcars need a h
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:18 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:12 am
Posts: 653
Location: cheyenne
Scranton Yard please PM me regarding your enquiry...thanks

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Colorado & Southern wood passenger car, boxcars need a h
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:36 pm 

Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:55 pm
Posts: 315
car57 wrote:
Yes we do have a potential place for it on track next to the C&S spur through Cheyenne and yes we did have a donation towards it.


Would you take possession of it if it could be moved up there? I seriously doubt that anyone would think you will let it rot after all the work you did on other cars.


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 Post subject: Re: Colorado & Southern wood passenger car, boxcars need a h
PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:46 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:12 am
Posts: 653
Location: cheyenne
Yes of course, its a car with a very good Cheyenne and Front Range history, perfect for here.....the city produced an eight page report on the place we wanted to put the car and it would be securely fenced. At least that was the plan in place beford the latest personel changes in the city.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Colorado & Southern wood passenger car, boxcars need a h
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 4:12 am 

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:44 pm
Posts: 30
Do you have photos of cars in their current condition? I might be interested, or am I supposed to know where to look them up?
Where were the advertised? I don't recall seeing them up for sale on any mainstream site, so it certainly didn't reach me.

It certainly does not surprise me at all that multiple museums blew you off.

It seems like private sector preservation is being ignored by many. Is it better to be scrapped, or rot away, either way lost forever, than out of the public view in someones personal collection?
Guess what humans don't live forever, down the road a museum might wind up with a restored item as a donation.


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 Post subject: Re: Colorado & Southern wood passenger car, boxcars need a h
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 7:58 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 909
Hi,

You came in as the caboose passed on this one. Jason is a great private preservationalist (if that's a word).

He got permission from the city to do this (Boulder I think) and then a number of years later the NIMBYs there pushed and shoved and got the City of Boulder to basically change their minds about allowing him to restore there.

He also helped out in a major way the restoring of Boulder's own narrow gauge train set. The trainset was bombed (there was nothing left of ex-RGS 0401 (IIRC). he restored the entire train again and Boulder's train with the loco and cars being moved from Bolder to the Colorado Railroad Museum in Golden to keep them from being bombed a third time (The first was about 1959) - blasting cap residue was found on the site in both cases and the perps were never found).

May I suggest you not jump to conclusions until you've asked the background questions first?

I am sure you are just as anxious to help out in preservation but unresearched jumps to conclusions are what trigger fire storms and detract from railway preservation.

Hang in there and keep posting wisely.

Doug vV


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 Post subject: Re: Colorado & Southern wood passenger car, boxcars need a h
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:40 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 9:18 am
Posts: 467
Location: Wall, NJ
I would not say all is lost with Steamtown as a source of trucks and parts. I had spoken to them some months back and posted on RyPN the process that is used, and which must be used by law.

As we have found, the NPS uses the FBO (Fed Biz Ops) to announce planned Steamtown acquisitions, whether that be for coal, building maintenance, car or locomotive restoration, or for scrapping services. Again this is a very formal process driven by federal law. I’m not sure many of us ever knew this bit of information but we can now keep a regular eye on the activities at Steamtown from a formal standpoint. I see this as a major step forward.

But, the handling of surplus equipment also has to be handled in some formal, legal, manner. There have been any number of topics on RyPN related to various pieces of equipment being auctioned off under this formal process.

The NPS must use GSA Auctions (https://gsaauctions.gov/gsaauctions/aucal) after checking with all elements of the NPS first as to interest in an item.

So, this is really a three step process:

1) Maintain contact with Steamtown. Names and such have been discussed before.
2) Watch the FBO for announcements that may provide some hints. Scrap services for example.
3) Watch the GSA site for availability of surplus equipment/parts.

Is it easy? No. Does it take time? Yes, lots of it. Is it a pain? Yes, but it can pay off.

J.R. May


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 Post subject: Re: Colorado & Southern wood passenger car, boxcars need a h
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:11 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 5:44 pm
Posts: 30
Doug, thank you for your unsolicited two cents. As a serious potential buyer I was asking where this is advertised so I could look at photos, condition etc. As I look at the calendar there are still 27 days left in the month.


My comments about private preservation were a generalization, not specifically directed at this owner. It's great to hear he is a successful "private preservationist", up until now. It was more directed at things like the Soo Line 1227 "Valhalla" which is in the classified section rotting away, not even tarped, waiting to see if some museum might come along to rescue it.


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 Post subject: Re: Colorado & Southern wood passenger car, boxcars need a h
PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:49 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:52 pm
Posts: 909
Hi,

Jason posts here and the Narrow Gauge Discussion Forum. He moved all of his narrow gauge equipment to another place and continues with great restorations "out somewhere in the boonies."

I'd PM him. Posts of his work are on the NGDF. Amazing craftsmanship.

Doug vV


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