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 Post subject: Re: OT Save the Delta Queen, US Senate votes on Monday
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 10:32 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:28 am
Posts: 2408
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Kelly Anderson wrote:
Mark Jordan wrote:
Um....by definition, no.

"No" regarding my slight to their intelligence, or "no" regarding their ability to do their jobs?


I read it as more of a "you just need a majority of 435" to do their jobs.

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 Post subject: Re: OT Save the Delta Queen, US Senate votes on Monday
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:32 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:21 am
Posts: 375
If they properly perform as idiots, then they're idiots.

If they fail to be an idiot, then there is hope.

Let's hope they fail to be idiots.


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 Post subject: Re: OT Save the Delta Queen, US Senate votes on Monday
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:44 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1218
Location: Strasburg, PA
Oh, I see.

Being a pie in the sky idealist, I was operating on that their job was to be representatives of the people (I know, that's rich), rather than the campaign funding (i.e. bribe paying) special interests (I know, what am I smokin', right?).

Be that as it may, David Dewey, thank you for bringing this to our attention, and please do so again if and when the House version gets to where letters could help.

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 Post subject: Re: OT Save the Delta Queen, US Senate votes on Monday
PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 2:21 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:33 pm
Posts: 283
Location: Oroville, CA
Kelly, will do. "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" doesn't happen much nowadays, so the little guy often gets trampled. BUT!! As I like tilting at windmills, I will post when the house bill gets moving.

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David Dewey
Help save the last overnight steamboat, Delta Queen!
Write your congressman to support and co-sponsor House Resolution HR-619. This bill only grants her permission to run; there is no cost to us taxpayers.


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 Post subject: Re: OT Save the Delta Queen, US Senate votes on Monday
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:35 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:48 am
Posts: 29
Thanks to Mr. Dewey for his post last Saturday, I wrote to my Senator, Mr Kaine, and received his response on Tuesday, acknowledging his supporting vote for this worthy exemption.

To put it simply, we need to use the process we have.

I hope Mr. Dewey will continue to monitor the process in the House, letting us all know when the time is right to contact our Representative.


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 Post subject: Re: OT Save the Delta Queen, US Senate votes on Monday
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:43 am 

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:21 am
Posts: 375
So what happens next?

I understand that the boat needs boilers. It's not easy, nor cheap, to shoehorn out large watertube boilers from the middle of an antique boat, nor purchase same and shoehorn in.

Other issues?

(Inquiring minds want to know, but I'm not a writer for the National Enquirer, nor play same on TV)


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 Post subject: Re: OT Save the Delta Queen, US Senate votes on Monday
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 8:54 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1218
Location: Strasburg, PA
I was under the impression that she had scotch boilers. Regardless, I expect that they will come out in bits and pieces.

I saw a video showing one of the day steamers on the Mississippi, where they had replaced the old boilers with several "steam generators" (not even called boilers any more?), each about the size of a washing machine, but able to produce massive amounts of steam. Would that be practical for DQ?

In other needed work, I thought I heard that she ended her days as a hotel in Chattanooga due to the fire sprinklers going off and screwing up the interior. If true, I hope that the damage wasn't serious.

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 Post subject: Re: OT Save the Delta Queen, US Senate votes on Monday
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 3:51 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:36 am
Posts: 213
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
My recollection from 1974 or so when I took a trip on her was that she had a "steam generator." I believe that translated to a water tube boiler. This was the first trip after a major overhaul which included installation of the bow thruster and a diesel generator for the electrical power. A new steam generator (boiler) may have also been installed at this time. At one point during the voyage they lost steam pressure and had to be taken in tow for a while until they could get the problems resolved.

One of the interesting things I watched was taking indicator cards on the HP engine. A large wooden pulley was fitted to reduce the piston travel to what was needed for the indicator. At cut-off there was a very noticeable ringing on the pressure shown on the indicator card when the poppet valve snapped shut.


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 Post subject: Re: OT Save the Delta Queen, US Senate votes on Monday
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:56 pm 

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:33 pm
Posts: 283
Location: Oroville, CA
Wow, misinformation abounds!
No the sprinkler system didn't malfunction, but some deck leaks did do minor damage to some of the woodwork, mostly paneling (which likely wasn't the original!). The cold weather in Chattanooga was a bit hard on her plumbing systems.
Boilers; Yes, she will need new boilers. The boilers in place are the original water-tube boilers which were purchased from military surplus as brand new, but 15 years old! The boilers were originally designed for something like 450 pounds steam pressure, but were run at 250 pounds. This over-engineering is one reason they have lasted this long.
As Bunker C is becoming hard to find at fuel docks, the new boilers (or possibly steam generators) will burn something more common (diesel??), which may put an end to "soot happens!" Water-tube boilers, by their nature can be pieced out easily, but I'm not privileged to the plan for removal and replacement. She's also due for the 5 year hull inspection. there will be a LOT of work ahead due to her non-use, although efforts were made during the "long sleep" at Chattanooga to keep the steam systems functional, the wheel was even rolled at times.
Yes, she does have a bow thruster, which makes life (for the pilots) a bit easier. Since the new hull was put on, she's not as responsive to the rudders, I've been told. And yes, power generators are diesel powered, although a steam one is still on standby. In this case the Mississippi Queen (RIP) was more of a "pure" steamboat, as the generators on her were steam.
YES I WILL keep y'all informed on HR 619!

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Steamcerely,
David Dewey
Help save the last overnight steamboat, Delta Queen!
Write your congressman to support and co-sponsor House Resolution HR-619. This bill only grants her permission to run; there is no cost to us taxpayers.


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 Post subject: Re: OT Save the Delta Queen, US Senate votes on Monday
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 10:02 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1218
Location: Strasburg, PA
Thanks for the corrections, and the reminders to take action. I sure hope she runs again.

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 Post subject: Re: OT Save the Delta Queen, US Senate votes on Monday
PostPosted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 11:23 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:57 am
Posts: 182
Location: Sandpoint, ID
While I am sure there are other correct interpretations, a steam generator commonly refers to the base technology of the White steam boiler, further developed by the Doble family and later Bill Besler - that is a forced-circulation monotube configuration where water enters one end and steam exits the other -the only exception being a "normalizer" or de-superheater inlet. This technology found its way into a more commercialized role as the Clayton and Vapor-Clarkson steam generators - however it was used in planes, trains, automobiles, buses, and ships for propulsion as well as auxiliaries. In my opinion, the line between a steam generator and boiler begins to blur with the Lamont "boiler" which is essentially the same evaporation concept, but the outlet is purposely lower quality steam to reduce deposits in the tube. It has a water/steam separator vessel next to it which has a water level and this is circulated through the boiler. These all make great Heat Recovery Steam Generators (HRSG'S) for diesel engines. To the best of my understanding, American Queen has HRSG's.

Why someone hasn't taken a steam heating car, which had 2-3 250 psig 50+ boiler horsepower steam generators and connected them to a fireless steam locomotive vessel as an accumulator to make a 2 to 3 car rig that could be directly piped to the throttle box (drypipe blocked-off, superheaters removed) of name your big locomotive to play with it in the yard surprises me. "Y" not?


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 Post subject: Re: OT Save the Delta Queen, US Senate votes on Monday
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 12:16 am 

Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:21 am
Posts: 375
Quote:
While I am sure there are other correct interpretations, a steam generator commonly refers to the base technology of the White steam boiler, further developed by the Doble family and later Bill Besler - that is a forced-circulation monotube configuration where water enters one end and steam exits the other -the only exception being a "normalizer" or de-superheater inlet. This technology found its way into a more commercialized role as the Clayton and Vapor-Clarkson steam generators - however it was used in planes, trains, automobiles, buses, and ships for propulsion as well as auxiliaries. In my opinion, the line between a steam generator and boiler begins to blur with the Lamont "boiler" which is essentially the same evaporation concept, but the outlet is purposely lower quality steam to reduce deposits in the tube. It has a water/steam separator vessel next to it which has a water level and this is circulated through the boiler.

In layman's terms, a super-duper steam jenny / pressure washer.


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 Post subject: Re: OT Save the Delta Queen, US Senate votes on Monday
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 2:09 am 

Joined: Fri Oct 01, 2004 1:33 pm
Posts: 283
Location: Oroville, CA
Typically, a steam generator generates steam as needed, and has no reserve capacity, or stored steam (ie: a Pressure Vessel). A steam boiler has an area of stored steam, in marine water tube boilers this is typically the Steam Drum at the top of the tube array. However, AFAIK, the Delta Queen's boilers are/were more of a Babcock & Wilcox design as used in stationary boilers. Somewhere I have photos of the boiler room, unfortunately I not only am not certain where they are, but since I'm on dial up, I haven't been able to download pics to this interchange.

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Steamcerely,
David Dewey
Help save the last overnight steamboat, Delta Queen!
Write your congressman to support and co-sponsor House Resolution HR-619. This bill only grants her permission to run; there is no cost to us taxpayers.


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 Post subject: Re: OT Save the Delta Queen, US Senate votes on Monday
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 7:43 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5157
Location: southeastern USA
Disney World's old walking beam steamer used a steam generator - of course it only followed a restricted course, but it was no doubt more than adequate for its purpose. I'd hate to see that kind of technology on a real historic steamer, however...... Scotch boilers would be so much more historically appropriate to the era. What was she built with?

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 Post subject: Re: OT Save the Delta Queen, US Senate votes on Monday
PostPosted: Thu Apr 06, 2017 10:34 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 1999
Location: Northern Illinois
David Dewey wrote:
Typically, a steam generator generates steam as needed, and has no reserve capacity, or stored steam (ie: a Pressure Vessel)...


That sounds like what used to be called a "flash boiler." It seems to me the boilers on Stanley Steamers were of this sort.

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