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 Post subject: Re: U.S. Sugar / F.E.C. #148 restoration progress
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:57 pm 

Joined: Mon Jan 12, 2009 9:37 pm
Posts: 98
"Does US Sugar have passenger cars lined up........"

Maybe borrow Brightline equipment! LOL


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 Post subject: Re: U.S. Sugar / F.E.C. #148 restoration progress
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 2:15 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3236
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Some more pix from the Facebook page, Engine No. 148:

https://www.facebook.com/EngineNo148/

As usual, we have Facebook links and others for those who have difficulty with that source.

https://www.facebook.com/EngineNo148/ph ... =3&theater

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5B1854C5

https://www.facebook.com/EngineNo148/ph ... =3&theater

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5B110ECD

https://www.facebook.com/steamoperation ... =3&theater

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5B17CD17

Following safety valve photos by Jim Eng:

https://www.facebook.com/EngineNo148/ph ... =3&theater

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5B177A98

https://www.facebook.com/EngineNo148/ph ... =3&theater

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5B203DF6

Other photos:

https://www.facebook.com/EngineNo148/ph ... =3&theater

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5AE1F918

Lead truck parts awaiting evaluation:

https://www.facebook.com/EngineNo148/ph ... =3&theater

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5B163FC6

Lead truck work at Strasburg:

https://www.facebook.com/EngineNo148/ph ... =3&theater

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5AE3AEEF

Hub liners and crown brasses:

https://www.facebook.com/EngineNo148/ph ... =3&theater

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5ADC7D1F

https://www.facebook.com/EngineNo148/ph ... =3&theater

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5B1EC6F5

Bearing box "burn outs:"

https://www.facebook.com/EngineNo148/ph ... =3&theater

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5AE4F419

Cylinder boring, left side:

https://www.facebook.com/EngineNo148/ph ... =3&theater

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5ADA18D0

Cylinder liners.

https://www.facebook.com/EngineNo148/ph ... =3&theater

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5B1CC9EE

New leading truck wheel centers and tires.

https://www.facebook.com/EngineNo148/ph ... =3&theater

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5AD8069F

https://www.facebook.com/EngineNo148/ph ... =3&theater

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/ ... e=5B1BA469


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 Post subject: Re: U.S. Sugar / F.E.C. #148 restoration progress
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 3:41 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
Posts: 653
Thanks for posting the update links. They are definitely "into it" now. What a "happy ending" for this locomotive. Often wondered what her fate was going to be. Bounced around an awful lot and didn't seem to be going very far towards being restored. Once again never say never {to myself}. Great to see. Regards, John.


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 Post subject: Re: U.S. Sugar / F.E.C. #148 restoration progress
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 6:02 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1329
Location: Strasburg, PA
Attachment:
small20180206_161450.jpg
small20180206_161450.jpg [ 257.69 KiB | Viewed 1829 times ]


I'll add a shot of her new pilot wheel sets. The truck frame is in the background.

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"It was not easy to convince Allnutt. All his shop training had given him a profound prejudice against inexact work, experimental work, hit-or-miss work."
C. S. Forester

Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Department


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 Post subject: Re: U.S. Sugar / F.E.C. #148 restoration progress
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 7:16 pm 

Joined: Mon May 24, 2010 10:22 am
Posts: 462
New Wheel Sets or every thing cleaned up and new tires?

-Hudson


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 Post subject: Re: U.S. Sugar / F.E.C. #148 restoration progress
PostPosted: Wed Feb 07, 2018 9:02 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2005 9:34 pm
Posts: 1976
Location: Copenhagen, Denmark
Those are roller bearings? So new axles too.

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Steven Harrod
Lektor
Danmarks Tekniske Universitet
Institut for Systemer, Produktion, og Ledelse


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 Post subject: Re: U.S. Sugar / F.E.C. #148 restoration progress
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 8:59 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1329
Location: Strasburg, PA
The axles are original, turned down and modified to take roller bearings. The wheel centers are new, as are the tires.

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"It was not easy to convince Allnutt. All his shop training had given him a profound prejudice against inexact work, experimental work, hit-or-miss work."
C. S. Forester

Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Department


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 Post subject: Re: U.S. Sugar / F.E.C. #148 restoration progress
PostPosted: Thu Feb 08, 2018 12:47 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
Posts: 653
Kelly was there a tremendous amount of engineering to convert that front truck to roller bearings? To me this sounds like a stupid question to ask, hope you don't mind. So what do the boxes that hold the bearings look like and how involved was this? Your almost finished product looks wonderful. Some people I know are involved in rebuilding a front truck on small 4-6-0 and I know we all would love to see how you went about the conversion. Or wishful thinking that it was not that hard to do and were able to use off the shelf parts. I would be shocked if that were the case. But there are some pretty sharp folks out there so I have to ask. Thanks for the update and picture. Think many of us are drooling about now. Regards, John.


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 Post subject: Re: U.S. Sugar / F.E.C. #148 restoration progress
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:52 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:36 am
Posts: 241
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
I second John Risley's question. We have considered converting to rollers on our two-wheel USATC Consolidation lead truck. Current journals are 6"x10" and wheels need to be replaced.


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 Post subject: Re: U.S. Sugar / F.E.C. #148 restoration progress
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:37 am 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1329
Location: Strasburg, PA
Not too much engineering is needed. The axles often need to be smaller in order to be able to use a roller bearing small enough to fit between the pedestals, so you must be confident that the axles are still large enough to do the job. Smaller axles mean that new wheels are needed. The boxes are made split so they can be removed from the axle if needed. The bearings are off the shelf AP roller bearings.

Attachment:
20180208_132844.jpg
20180208_132844.jpg [ 154.13 KiB | Viewed 926 times ]

A box for #148.


Attachment:
IMG_2128.JPG
IMG_2128.JPG [ 215.05 KiB | Viewed 926 times ]

A similar job we did for R&N #425.

For my locomotive, I would never convert them to rollers in that in my opinion plain bearings are superior to roller bearings in that the truck will be more flexible with plain bearings, and in case of a hot bearing, you can baby it to get off the main, and in many cases rehabilitate it to run cool again with a few hours work. If a roller bearing fails, you are stuck where you came to a stop until you can chain up the offending wheel set clear of the rail to limp to a drop pit. To replace the bearing, the wheel must be pressed off.

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"It was not easy to convince Allnutt. All his shop training had given him a profound prejudice against inexact work, experimental work, hit-or-miss work."
C. S. Forester

Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Department


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 Post subject: Re: U.S. Sugar / F.E.C. #148 restoration progress
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:37 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:34 pm
Posts: 653
Very interesting work and I thank you for taking the time to elaborate on this. For the project I mentioned I would agree it wouldn't be worth it. For something larger that might run on the main in excursion service I have no idea if it is a better move or again not? For our little ten wheeler I do not think the effort would be justifiable. But still a fascinating conversion to observe. Have read where other front and rear wheels {pony/pilot} on steam locomotives have been converted to roller bearings but most have been on larger excursion engines and have no involvement with them. Thank you again for your pictures and thoughts on the conversions. Regards, John.


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 Post subject: Re: U.S. Sugar / F.E.C. #148 restoration progress
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:01 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 349
Kelly Anderson wrote:
To replace the bearing, the wheel must be pressed off.


Mr. Anderson - Thanks for this nice presentation of a roller bearing conversion and your thoughts on some of the practical consequences converting from plain bearings to roller bearings. Can the need to press off the wheel to remove the bearing be avoided by the use of split roller bearings? They have more parts and so the install/replacement may be a bit trickier, but it could be done in the field where the equipment to press off the wheel is unavailable.


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 Post subject: Re: U.S. Sugar / F.E.C. #148 restoration progress
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:23 pm 

Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2004 7:52 am
Posts: 1329
Location: Strasburg, PA
Scranton Yard wrote:
Can the need to press off the wheel to remove the bearing be avoided by the use of split roller bearings?

I suppose that it's possible (Timken offers a catalog), but I wouldn't want to be the one doing the R&D in a railroad environment. Also, the Timken split bearings shown would need to be heavily adapted to fit into a journal box, plus they are not tapered roller bearings, so they would need some kind of thrust bearing as well, all perfectly sealed of course.

The added complication makes pressing the wheel off to replace the bearing not look so bad afterall.

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"It was not easy to convince Allnutt. All his shop training had given him a profound prejudice against inexact work, experimental work, hit-or-miss work."
C. S. Forester

Strasburg Rail Road Mechanical Department


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 Post subject: Re: U.S. Sugar / F.E.C. #148 restoration progress
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:40 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 349
Mr. Anderson - I thought of this because your split box reminded me of what Timken calls, in the link you provided, the Support Cap and the Support Base (BSA calls it a Pedestal Cap and a Pedestal Base). Could the cap and base be machined as a split box that the cartridge top and bottom fit into? The cartridge top and bottom would keep the bearing together and clean when you drop the lower half of the box while the two halves of the box provide the mechanical support normally provided by the Cap and Base during use.

http://www.bsahome.org/tools/pdfs/Split_Roller_web.pdf

The more interesting issue would be the incorporation of a thrust bearing to control lateral motion of the shaft.


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 Post subject: Re: U.S. Sugar / F.E.C. #148 restoration progress
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:00 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2010 3:41 am
Posts: 3236
Location: Inwood, W.Va.
Scranton Yard wrote:
Mr. Anderson - I thought of this because your split box reminded me of what Timken calls, in the link you provided, the Support Cap and the Support Base (BSA calls it a Pedestal Cap and a Pedestal Base). Could the cap and base be machined as a split box?

http://www.bsahome.org/tools/pdfs/Split_Roller_web.pdf

The more interesting issue would be the incorporation of a thrust bearing to control lateral motion of the shaft.


All of this brings up at least part of why you didn't see too many conversions of steam locomotives to roller bearings in the old days.

A car journal, or any other outside bearing journal (such as a trailing truck), isn't too big a problem, as the bearing is on the outside of the wheel, and can be replaced without pressing the wheel off first. While some cars such as Amfleet apparently do quite well with inside bearings, that practice gets problematical with the higher axle loads and stresses in steam locomotives.

It's a different matter in the steam engines that were built with roller bearings from the start. Those engines had a nice, stiff, rigid cast frame that held excellent alignment, and where inside bearings were used, they were usually much larger tapered bearings in a "cannon box" housing that enclosed the axle and both sets of bearings, keeping alignment in that way as well.

They also typically had controlled lateral motion devices, again something plain bearing engines often lacked, especially as old as this one is.

I have a Facebook acquaintance who worked on a couple of 4-8-4s, one with plain bearings, and one delivered with rollers from the factory (which included tandem roller rods, by the way). He said those rollers, and the things that went with them such as those housings, practically eliminated the bearing troubles the company he worked for had on the other 4-8-4. He even said the rollers on the axles not only eliminated the bearing troubles, but all the work of dropping rods to work on bearings as well.


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