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 Post subject: Source of Turntable Fatality Story (and Turntable Bloopers)
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Jun 17, 2007 8:03 pm
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Location: Brampton, Ontario
I recall reading about an incident wherein a turntable operator was seriously injured or possibly killed, when a locomotive crashed into the operator's shed on that turntable (as the turntable was not properly lined up for that engine when it started moving). The incident was made worse by the presence of a coal stove in the operator's shed and the lack of an escape door. From what I recall, after the accident, the shed was rebuilt with an escape door.

Does anyone recognize that story? I can't remember where I read it, and would like to find the source.

Also, I was also wondering if anyone has any photos of any turntable bloopers (i.e. engines swan diving into the pit, etc.) There are a few photos of just that in the book Keep Em Rolling about Toronto's Spadina Roundhouse. I've also seen the odd photo of locomotives trying to "sneak out the back" as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Source of Turntable Fatality Story (and Turntable Bloope
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:18 pm 

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Location: Tucson, Arizona
There was also a legal case against a railroad many years ago concerning injury of children who were playing on a railroad turntable on a property that was not fenced. I believe the railroad involved was the B&O and that the appellate court held that the railroad was negligent in failure to make the turntable inaccessible to the public. I seem to recall that the trial court determined that the unguarded turntable was an attractive nuisance.

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 Post subject: Re: Source of Turntable Fatality Story (and Turntable Bloope
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:37 pm 

Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 9:48 am
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Location: Byers, Colorado
Joe,

I told a story about an engine demolishing the turntable shack here in Denver, several months ago in a thread called "Diesel Stories". Nobody was hurt, but somebody sure COULD have been. I know I have an 8x10 somewhere, but no way to email or post it to you, since I use the computer at my local library. If I can find any extra prints, I'll give you a PM and maybe mail you one. You know, it's been awhile ago...

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 Post subject: Re: Source of Turntable Fatality Story (and Turntable Bloope
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:57 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 12:08 am
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I have a photo of an NYC 2-8-2 or 4-8-2 that, apparently, somehow, jumped across an open turntable pit and T-boned into the side of another NYC 2-8-2 or 4-8-2 sitting on the turntable bridge. Perhaps the locos did not collide at a 90-degree angle, and maybe the force of the impact rotated the turntable so that it appeared that the two locos struck at a 90-degree angle right on the turntable bridge? I do not comprehend how this was even possible, but unless there is a better explanation, the airborne locomotive had to have been moving very fast to have remained in the air for 50 feet or so before striking the other locomotive without the airborne loco nose-diving downward at the edge of the pit. (I have photos of a fast-moving, misdirected passenger train doing a similar aerial feat across a turntable pit.) There were no details on the back side of the photo. I'll have to dig out this image to get the engine numbers. Does anyone have information about this remarkable flight, or is my imagination just running wild?

John B. Corns


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 Post subject: Re: Source of Turntable Fatality Story (and Turntable Bloope
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:05 pm 

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TRAINS magazine ran a small piece, mostly photographic, maybe about thirty years ago on locomotives, freight cars etc. that have come to grief in turntable pits. Very interesting!

I remember hearing a story on a turntable operator in snowy upstate New York that had a glass eye. It would get so cold that he supposedly would hold it in his hand or pocket to keep warm.

Joshua

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 Post subject: Re: Source of Turntable Fatality Story (and Turntable Bloope
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Baltimore, MD
Joshua K. Blay wrote:
TRAINS magazine ran a small piece, mostly photographic, maybe about thirty years ago on locomotives, freight cars etc. that have come to grief in turntable pits.


April 1981, pp. 20-25.


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 Post subject: Re: Source of Turntable Fatality Story (and Turntable Bloope
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:08 pm 
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In August 1955, Grand Trunk Western 3734 fell into the turntable pit at (I believe) the Milwaukee Junction roundhouse in Detroit. Interestingly, the 3734 was renumbered to 4070, had a fan trip career, and still exists in Cleveland. I don't know the source of the photo.


Attachments:
3734.jpg
3734.jpg [ 131.49 KiB | Viewed 1281 times ]

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Last edited by rlsteam on Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Source of Turntable Fatality Story (and Turntable Bloope
PostPosted: Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:52 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:46 am
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Location: S.F. Bay Area
Alan Walker wrote:
There was also a legal case against a railroad many years ago concerning injury of children who were playing on a railroad turntable on a property that was not fenced. I believe the railroad involved was the B&O and that the appellate court held that the railroad was negligent in failure to make the turntable inaccessible to the public. I seem to recall that the trial court determined that the unguarded turntable was an attractive nuisance.

Yes. If I recall it was one of the definitive cases in liability law, on the scale of Roe v Wade, and is cited regularly today.


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 Post subject: Re: Source of Turntable Fatality Story (and Turntable Bloope
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 2:09 am 

Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 1:37 pm
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Early history of the "turntable cases" is in the Virginia Law Review, v2 n3 (Dec 1914) pp 223-225. (Note that the name of the first railroad is cited incorrectly in the article and this has propagated to other references in the legal literature!)

There is an interesting article, timely in its relevance to the Sarah Jones civil case and the upcoming Ohio trespass case, in Evelyn Atkinson's recent article 'Creating the Reasonable Child' in the journal "Law and Social Inquiry" (May 22,2017).

Perhaps there is enough here to tickle Mr. Walker's memory on the issue of significant precedents for attractive nuisance or propertyowners' duties toward trespassers.

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 Post subject: Re: Source of Turntable Fatality Story (and Turntable Bloope
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:20 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 25, 2013 12:36 am
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Location: Anchorage, Alaska
When researching the Alaska Railroad USATC consolidations in the ARR material at the (now closed) Anchorage office of the National Archives, I found a circa 1950 accident report of an F7 the took a dive into the turntable pit.


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 Post subject: Re: Source of Turntable Fatality Story (and Turntable Bloope
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:02 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:18 am
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Location: B'more MD
From enlarging the photo, the number boards adjacent to the headlight, it looks to me that the GTW locomotive in the turntable pit isn't GTW 3634, rather it is the GTW 3734. If so, it's interesting, in that the GTW 3734 was later renumbered to GTW 4070, and is with us today, in Cleveland, undergoing slow restoration by the Midwest Railway Preservation Society folks. http://www.midwestrailway.org/steam-loc ... -4070.html.

G.F.Payne
Baltimore, MD

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 Post subject: Re: Source of Turntable Fatality Story (and Turntable Bloope
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 8:21 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
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Location: Baltimore, MD
rlsteam wrote:
In August 1955, Grand Trunk Western 3634 fell into the turntable pit at (I believe) the Milwaukee Junction roundhouse in Detroit. Interestingly, the 3734 was renumbered to 4070, had a fan trip career, and still exists in Cleveland. I don't know the source of the photo.


The exact same photo, cropped a bit, is featured in the aforementioned Trains Magazine piece, credited to GTW.


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 Post subject: Re: Source of Turntable Fatality Story (and Turntable Bloope
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:14 am 
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Yes, GTW 3734 was correct -- I failed to catch my typo. I fixed it.

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 Post subject: Re: Source of Turntable Fatality Story (and Turntable Bloope
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:18 pm 

Joined: Sat Sep 04, 2004 10:54 am
Posts: 728
Location: Tucson, Arizona
Overmod wrote:
Early history of the "turntable cases" is in the Virginia Law Review, v2 n3 (Dec 1914) pp 223-225. (Note that the name of the first railroad is cited incorrectly in the article and this has propagated to other references in the legal literature!)

There is an interesting article, timely in its relevance to the Sarah Jones civil case and the upcoming Ohio trespass case, in Evelyn Atkinson's recent article 'Creating the Reasonable Child' in the journal "Law and Social Inquiry" (May 22,2017).

Perhaps there is enough here to tickle Mr. Walker's memory on the issue of significant precedents for attractive nuisance or propertyowners' duties toward trespassers.


That particular case (I believe) was one of the cases that was used to establish the "attractive nuisance" doctrine. That doctrine establishes that a property owner has a duty to take reasonable measures to protect a minor child from an attractive nuisance (i.e. a dangerous item/condition that may attract the child's interest and cause them injury or death) that is located on the private property. If the child is incapable of reading and/or understanding the meaning conveyed by a No Trespassing sign, then the simple act of posting No Trespassing signs cannot be considered to be a reasonable measure.

The most obvious extension of this doctrine outside it's original intent would concern illiterate adults, though I am unaware of any actual attempt to do so. However, it does appear that the doctrine has been applied in many cases by municipal governments to justify the requirement of fencing of certain classes of properties.

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 Post subject: Re: Source of Turntable Fatality Story (and Turntable Bloope
PostPosted: Wed Jul 26, 2017 10:08 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
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Location: Southern California
Some years ago a friend recounted seeing a series of telegrams displayed at the Colorado Railroad Museum. One of the standard gauge railroads running along or to the front range was the railroad.

First telegram reported that a particular roundhouse had a locomotive in the turntable pit. In response a wreck derrick was used to help remove the locomotive.

A subsequent telegram reported that the wreck derrick had fallen into the pit. Another derrick was sent to fish both the first derrick and the steamer out of the pit.

Then came another telegram. The second derrick also had found its way into the pit. The frustrated railroad official added some levity by saying: "Do not send wrecker. No room in pit."

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