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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate Berkshire 757 Going to Bellevue, Ohio!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 9:36 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 8:10 am
Posts: 2332
G.W.,

From my observations, one of the most useful things someone could donate to the RRMofPA is a switcher or small roadswticher in working order and with PA provenance.

Then again, I am still hoping beyond hope for a Conrail SD70 from the #2557 to 2580 series. Having been assembled at Juniata, they are the last locomotives built in PA for a PA-headquartered railroad. In my feeble mind, I see them as one of the most historic locomotives of the Commonwealth.

Rob

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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate Berkshire 757 Going to Bellevue, Ohio!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:23 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 21, 2004 10:50 pm
Posts: 363
I believe there is an OOS Ma & Pa / York Railways / Emmons / G&W Geep sitting in York, PA.

Rob Gardner


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate Berkshire 757 Going to Bellevue, Ohio!
PostPosted: Tue Aug 01, 2017 11:30 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:54 pm
Posts: 1733
"It doesn't matter who is to blame for the current state of affairs."

It's not about "blame", but accountability. These are actions by public officials and in some measure the result of elected officials. Have you seen Pennsylvania's fiscal condition?


https://www.mercatus.org/statefiscalran ... nnsylvania


"#757 is hardly the only piece to leave in recent years, and she shouldn't be the last."



And how many were traded for something else more relevant to railroads in Pennsylvania? What else should go? When do the dispositions start to hit muscle and bone in your judgment.


"No one gave two toots about #757 in Strasburg. She's one of many surviving Van Swearigen Berkshires and hardly ranked as a top 25 piece in terms of interpretive value or core historical value at the museum."


That's a platitude, not a policy. Nobody "gave two toots" about the locomotive because they didn't see it at risk. What other examples of Superpower exist in the collection? How about locomotives with four wheel trailing trucks? Most of us learn the deficiencies in that sort of thinking when our parents tell us the story about the fox and the grapes.

As for Ohio, that's great, but the PENNSYLVANIA Historic and Museum Commission is responsible to the people of PENNSYLVANIA not those of Ohio.

"From my observations, one of the most useful things someone could donate to the RRMofPA is a switcher or small roadswticher in working order and with PA provenance. "

Good luck with that. Other than the small flood in the four-axle secondary market that's going to occur with the NS auction in two weeks, the long term scarcity of four axle power makes it highly unlikely that anybody is going to donate a working four axle. I remember some discussion about restoring the (admittedly very limited) Vulcan donated by the Electric City Trolley Museum but that seems not to have happened. Given scarce resources, it is better that they call SRR and pay them for the use of the SW1200 when a move is required-assuming they have no objection to daily rentals.

If don't have the money to maintain a static locomotive, where is the money going to come from to store, fuel, inspect and maintain a working engine?


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate Berkshire 757 Going to Bellevue, Ohio!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:11 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2091
Location: Northern Illinois
Interestingly, on another forum I inhabit (not railroad related) someone just posted excepts from a 32 year old article about the Henry Ford Museum auctioning off antique automobiles. I think the comments by the then president of the Henry Ford are pertinent here:

THE FORD MUSEUM AUCTIONS OLD CARS
By JAMES BARRON
Published: October 24, 1985

DEARBORN, Mich., Oct. 23— The world's largest indoor-outdoor museum held what its curators called a ''housecleaning'' last weekend, an auction at which buyers bid on 400 old cars, steam engines and other items that museum officials say they no longer need. The sale netted the museum $1.26 million.

Others wanted generators used by Thomas Alva Edison, whose laboratories have been reconstructed on the museum's 254-acre site.

Harold K. Skramstad, the president of the independent nonprofit museum, said the items were auctioned off because they no longer filled the museum's needs for exhibits or research.The museum is concentrating on telling the story of America's transformation from a rural nation to an industrial society, he said, and wants only the best items to tell that story. ''Any museum has a basic responsibility to continually review its collections,'' he said. ''As historians, our job is to collect what's important. Getting rid of parts of the collection is not taken lightly, but we have to be concerned with conserving what we have. The costs are staggering and we just can't afford to be grandmother's attic. We have to be selective and we just can't keep it all.''

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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate Berkshire 757 Going to Bellevue, Ohio!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:35 am 

Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2008 8:18 pm
Posts: 2072
I saw 757 about 1985. I think some parts were given to 765. Yep, 757 NKP wanted to donate it but Bellevue didnt have a spot for it so there it went. Not far in Conneaut is 755, and we have 763 in Ohio and 779 in Lima, 4 berks to be in Ohio.

A lot of ranting about whats what about these engines, jeez, appreciate what we got.


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate Berkshire 757 Going to Bellevue, Ohio!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:37 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 2:15 pm
Posts: 160
Location: Lawrenceville, NJ
[quote Given scarce resources, it is better that they call SRR and pay them for the use of the SW1200 when a move is required-assuming they have no objection to daily rentals.

If don't have the money to maintain a static locomotive, where is the money going to come from to store, fuel, inspect and maintain a working engine?[/quote]

Unless it is recently OOS (which I don't believe is the case), the Railroad Museum of PA already has an operable locomotive used to move around equipment without the need for "calling the neighbors" at the Strasburg Railroad. The museum's working switch engine is a 1949 18 ton Plymouth, ex-Pennsylvania Power & Light (which certainly fits in the scope of the collection).

Jim Robinson


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate Berkshire 757 Going to Bellevue, Ohio!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:03 am 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1043
Location: Youngstown, OH
The Plymouth is used but is too light to handle more than one large locomotive at a time. It makes doing the larger moves practically impossible. So they bring in Strasburg for those moves.

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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate Berkshire 757 Going to Bellevue, Ohio!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:23 am 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 237
Mr. "Hot Metal" Rowlands - the presser in your OP states, "The MR&NKP estimates the relocation, restoration, and preparation of a special exhibit site will cost $250,000." Does this mean that the MR&KNP has done preliminary work on planning these three tasks? If so, what is the current thinking on means/method of transporting 757 to Bellevue? I ask because of the issues Mr. Anderson mentioned in his post. Also, what is the MR&NKP's vision as far as the exhibit site - indoors, outdoors with no roof, or outdoors under partial cover? Thanks.


Last edited by Scranton Yard on Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate Berkshire 757 Going to Bellevue, Ohio!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:57 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:19 pm
Posts: 1603
Location: Pottstown,Pa.
Again, it seems to me that this historic piece will receive much better care and be a much more effective good will ambassador for steam all prettied up in her new home vs. the rusting hulk she's been at the RRMPA. Congratulations to all concerned.

Speaking of rusting hulks I would hope that someday the folks in charge at Dieseltown in Scranton would figure out the federal rubic cube and get permission to send that long line of junk cars and locos to the scrapper so they can be put out of their misery. Perhaps they could get Washington's ok to use the proceeds to hasten the return of a mainline capable steam locomotive to service??? I know, then I woke up and smelled the coffee. I see that 100% of their excursions for the balance of 2017 will be dismal powered. What a shame.

To answer Ms. Superheater's questions:

1. We've changed the name of the veterans benefit train project from Yellow Ribbon Express to American Freedom Train 2.0 as the new name better reflects the base purpose of the mission and for computer search engine purposes. We are actively working behind the curtain to secure the $ 100M in corporate co-sponsorships needed to fund the DBOM budget.
We are purposely staying under the radar ( no website,no social media etc. ) until we've secured the corporate support needed so as to avoid having to waste time dealing with the plentiful trolls like Ms. Superheater.

2. Yes, we recently scrapped several old coaches whose car bodies were badly rusted out after stripping them of all salvageable parts.

3. I count Reading & Northern owner Andy Muller as a good friend and always feel most welcome when I visit that property so I have no clue where you came up with that comment. Perhaps it was your bad day of the month???

Kelly Anderson raises some important issues. Sure hope those involved have thought those challenges through.

Ross Rowland


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate Berkshire 757 Going to Bellevue, Ohio!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:42 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3719
Location: Maine
2010 photo of NKP 757 at RMPA. Smokebox underside was visibly corroded through. My opinion is, she will get attention, replacement steel, accurate paint, and perhaps a roof, in Ohio. RMPA has done a service to keep her as a display piece for the time being, but there are locomotives more representative of the Commonwealth requiring immediate attention. My feeling is to put this thoroughbred in a more familiar pasture.


Attachments:
NKP 757 RMPA 2010.JPG
NKP 757 RMPA 2010.JPG [ 59.93 KiB | Viewed 537 times ]

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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate Berkshire 757 Going to Bellevue, Ohio!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:50 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:03 pm
Posts: 718
Scranton Yard wrote:
Mr. "Hot Metal" Rowlands - the presser in your OP states, "The MR&NKP estimates the relocation, restoration, and preparation of a special exhibit site will cost $250,000." Does this mean that the MR&KNP has done preliminary work on planning these three tasks? If so, what is the current thinking on means/method of transporting 757 to Bellevue? I ask because of the issues Mr. Anderson mentioned in his post. Also, what is the MR&NKP's vision as far as the exhibit site - indoors, outdoors with no roof, or outdoors under partial cover? Thanks.


All of that and more is covered here:

http://bringback757.org/faq

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Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society, Inc
http://www.fwrhs.org


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate Berkshire 757 Going to Bellevue, Ohio!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:00 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:07 pm
Posts: 640
Speaking of a switcher at RRMPA with PA connections, what has become of Monongahela Connecting RR Alco C415 701? Wasn't it operational there at one point?


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate Berkshire 757 Going to Bellevue, Ohio!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:21 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 237
nathansixchime wrote:
Scranton Yard wrote:
Mr. "Hot Metal" Rowlands - the presser in your OP states, "The MR&NKP estimates the relocation, restoration, and preparation of a special exhibit site will cost $250,000." Does this mean that the MR&KNP has done preliminary work on planning these three tasks? If so, what is the current thinking on means/method of transporting 757 to Bellevue? I ask because of the issues Mr. Anderson mentioned in his post. Also, what is the MR&NKP's vision as far as the exhibit site - indoors, outdoors with no roof, or outdoors under partial cover? Thanks.


All of that and more is covered here:

http://bringback757.org/faq


Mr. Lynch - Thank you. I forgot that the FAQ addressed the envisioned exhibit space. Its been a long diverse thread. The FAQ states, "$100,000 – $150,000 for relocation, which includes dissembling the locomotive, special train rates and labor". Given the clearance issues Mr. Anderson mentions, is the thinking removing the boiler from the frame, the running gear and wheelsets from the frame, or something even more extensive? If the group does indeed have to break it down extensively because of clearance issues on the railroad, why rail transport vs. truck? Best of luck to you.


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate Berkshire 757 Going to Bellevue, Ohio!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:48 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 4:03 pm
Posts: 718
Rick can chime in as he was part of the most recent inspection with Dan Pluta and Zach Hall, but the current plan is to move the engine in a fashion similar to how the N&W Y6 was transported between St. Louis and Roanoke - no significant disassembly required and on its own wheels. Dan and Zach also part of the team helping FWRHS relocate 624 out of Hammond, where the engine is indeed being separated into multiple pieces and trucked separately.

A flat car option was explored - with the thought to reduce the locomotives height, remove the sand dome, stack, and dissemble it, but it's cost prohibitive and would potentially require Amtrak to turn off the juice nearby which they can do for a fee.

Among the well meaning questions and concerns, I hope Mad River gets some credit for bringing together folks like Pluta, Hall, and others - all of whom have extensive experience in doing this very thing and don't suffer fools lightly. https://bringback757.org/about/#team

The project may have just been announced, but it's been in the works for over a year. There was considerable due diligence performed prior to the announcement and another site visit and work session will be happening in the next month or two. Mad River has every intention of having the engine ready to head west by the end of next year. We had 763 ready to go with sporadic work sessions in a shorter time frame - and it had been ashpan deep in river water.

I think there seem to be more eyebrows raised because of Mad River's lower profile in the industry, but they've accomplished a great deal already under the radar.

Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
But I'm keeping my pom-poms packed until I hear NS, Amtrak, etc. give approval to the movement, the fundraising target close to being matched, etc.


When you get your pom-poms out, I hope a donation comes with it.

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Vice President
Fort Wayne Railroad Historical Society, Inc
http://www.fwrhs.org


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 Post subject: Re: Nickel Plate Berkshire 757 Going to Bellevue, Ohio!
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 1:10 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1043
Location: Youngstown, OH
David H. Hamley wrote:
Speaking of a switcher at RRMPA with PA connections, what has become of Monongahela Connecting RR Alco C415 701? Wasn't it operational there at one point?


They do not want to use the C-415 as a shop switcher since it is not an all weather locomotive, requiring draining in the winter. It was operational when it arrived, the stack has been capped and no parts have been removed. So I would surmise that with a fresh set of batteries and a couple days of prep work it might just start up.

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