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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned GG1's in Coopersville, New York
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:04 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8353
Location: Baltimore, MD
If you object to a GG1 going to Florida, please don't look at what's sitting in Elkhart, Indiana.

Or Green Bay, Wisconsin.

Or Kirkwood, Missouri.

Or, for that matter, at the Gold Coast RR Museum in Miami.


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned GG1's in Coopersville, New York
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:07 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:07 pm
Posts: 640
If it costs $25K (Thank you, Preston) to move a "modern compliant" loco around the country, just picture the charges involved in a GG1 move--if they'd even accept it. Suggestion: More than $25K. Probably a LOT more.

What national railfan organization has the wherewithal to pull this off?, (not to mention the money.) I'll expect to see the list forming........


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned GG1's in Coopersville, New York
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2005 2:27 am
Posts: 389
Location: Winters, TX
May I remind everyone that there is a GG1 here in Texas. It is well cared for but the poor thing must wake up every morning and wonder what the heck am I doing here?


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned GG1's in Coopersville, New York
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 5:04 pm 

Joined: Fri Mar 26, 2010 11:43 am
Posts: 420
Location: Floyd, AR
I would bet the RR would rather move a wooden caboose out of the woods then a GG1. Forget the bearings, the whole machine is just plain bizarre compared to modern railroading. Plus, if it goes on the ground, imagine the mess..... What sane inspector would ever put HIS signature on the line for the move?

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Board Member, Cotton Belt Rail Historical Society, Arkansas Railroad Museum, steam engine SSW819.
Any information or opinions I express are my own, and are not the views of the CBRHS or anyone else, unless explicitly stated otherwise.


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned GG1's in Coopersville, New York
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 6:49 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:38 am
Posts: 922
Did you have permission to enter?

Last I knew, one is privately owned and the other is/was owned by the society but efforts have so far proven to be unsuccessful to move it to wherever it was supposed to go.

How does the one in MD compare in condition?

Joshua

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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned GG1's in Coopersville, New York
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 7:40 pm 

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2013 5:27 pm
Posts: 93
Location: Vt
Since the G isn't ever going to be in service, why not remove the body, put it on a very large flatcar and ship it. Then the frame is two 4-6-0's that pivot in the middle, pull the pin and lift each half of a G onto 2 more flatcars and ship them. Job done.
The amount of bodywork and steam cleaning on the frame can be done a lot easier this
way.
If a Reading 4-8-4 can be shipped from the east to the west coast and then almost the reverse on a flatcar, why can't a GG1. Just cut or pull apart into 3 pieces for shipping.
It's probably cheaper that way.

Alan


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned GG1's in Coopersville, New York
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:01 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3723
Location: Maine
Josh, that was a conundrum I faced. To enter or not to enter? I knew I am not a thief. The doors have been sprung open and all manner of junk had blown in. I entered one of the GG1's, not both. There are no "No Trespassing" signs, so..in the interest of research and just plain curiosity, I took the jump. If taking pictures and reporting on the state of preservation is a sin, I am guilty. I'll stand by my decision in this case, but your point is well taken. I wouldn't do this where the Baldwin "sharks" are stored, but they are being protected, whereas these are open for the wildlife of the woods and other varmints as well.

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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned GG1's in Coopersville, New York
PostPosted: Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:38 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:12 am
Posts: 654
Location: cheyenne
Well done Richard thanks for photographing them for us. I woukd have done the same, perhaps it will encourage people to save them.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned GG1's in Coopersville, New York
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 9:27 am 

Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2006 5:19 pm
Posts: 389
Location: Bowie, MD
Reading 900 wrote:
Since the G isn't ever going to be in service, why not remove the body, put it on a very large flatcar and ship it. Then the frame is two 4-6-0's that pivot in the middle, pull the pin and lift each half of a G onto 2 more flatcars and ship them. Job done.


If you want to visualize this better, see the photo on page 56 of "The Remarkable GG1" by Karl Zimmermann, showing the two sets of running gear with the body of 4866 on jack stands beside them. Having seen photos/videos of how RDG 2100 and C&O 1309 were jacked up/sidewinder'ed up and flats slid under, if the ground and space around them allow, a crane might not be needed.

Bob


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned GG1's in Coopersville, New York
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:29 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8353
Location: Baltimore, MD
MrShay wrote:
>The plan was to move it to Florida


That seems like it would be a terrible place for something that already isn't in the best of condition, unless it will be getting a roof over its head.


I have no idea where it was supposedly headed, but Florida already has a rail museum with a Burlington E-unit and passenger cars, an SP sleeper, and a prized WP dome car and baggage car, along with four C&NW bilevels........ and at least some of them are under cover.

And you'd best not look at those museums in Green Bay or Kirkwood (although they have roofs).


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned GG1's in Coopersville, New York
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 12:55 pm 

Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2013 7:20 pm
Posts: 127
Looks like 475,000 lbs of scrap to me,


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned GG1's in Coopersville, New York
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 1:48 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2091
Location: Northern Illinois
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:

I have no idea where it was supposedly headed, but Florida already has a rail museum with a Burlington E-unit and passenger cars, an SP sleeper, and a prized WP dome car and baggage car, along with four C&NW bilevels........ and at least some of them are under cover.

And you'd best not look at those museums in Green Bay or Kirkwood (although they have roofs).


It all depends on what the organization's collections policy says. If the intent is to trace the technological development of heavy electric traction in the US, it's pretty hard to not have a GG1; the mechanical equipment is very typical of the time they were built, and the styling is iconic. Such is the reason both IRM and the National Museum in Green Bay have examples.

Much more difficult to get examples of earlier phases of the same technology. I seem to recall the museum in Kirkwood imported an Italian locomotive simply because they could not find an extant example of a US jackshaft powered electric.

I also recall the Italian loco was on their de-accessions list.

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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned GG1's in Coopersville, New York
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 2:52 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:09 pm
Posts: 298
train guy wrote:
Looks like 475,000 lbs of scrap to me,


This.

So many other pieces of equipment could better use the funds to repair, then these hunks. They are not one offs, nor are they last of their kind..


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned GG1's in Coopersville, New York
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:31 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 3:37 pm
Posts: 1055
Location: Pacific, MO
The biggest head scratcher at Kirkwood to me is the Italian electric loco. I have no idea why that thing is taking up valuable space there. Maybe it should be dolled up and put on a pedestal down on the Hill in St. Louis.


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 Post subject: Re: Abandoned GG1's in Coopersville, New York
PostPosted: Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:54 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2091
Location: Northern Illinois
As I stated above, it was to have an example of a locomotive with a jackshaft drive, once quite common in the US. It is my impression that when Doc Roberts was collecting for the museum, he was trying to find examples of technological turning points, so to speak, but a jackshaft electric is the one that got away. So, they went to Europe.

The problem with that is our collections have to relate to the viewers on several levels. The jackshaft is certainly interesting. but a little hard to imagine the outlander grinding through the Appalachian coal fields. With our industy's reliance on volunteers for much of the work, an exhibit that no one can relate to gets little love.

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