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 Post subject: Re: C&NW 284 saved; will be restored to operation!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:25 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5022
We've got a question about the repainting and lettering of C&NW #284. Here is a photo of a sister PS-1 boxcar, probably taken at Pullman-Standard's plant in Michigan City, Indiana:

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi ... cnw7&o=cnw

The built date on CNW #7 is shown as 10-53. Due to the deterioration in paint quality through the years, we can no longer read the built date on #284. Would Pullman-Standard have put the same built date on the entire 625 cars in this series (which were numbered 1-625), even if some of the cars came out in later months? Could P-S even have built 625 cars in one month? Does anyone have any idea as to the production schedules of PS-1 40' box cars in those days? Or have a photo of a car later in the series that shows a built date?

We'd like to at least put a "most likely correct" built date on the car. Thanks for any help that can be offered.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: C&NW 284 saved; will be restored to operation!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:17 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:07 pm
Posts: 642
Since freight cars were required to be individually weighed to determine what weight should be stenciled on each car for tariff purposes, it stands to reason that the month and year of construction SHOULD also be marked individually on each car. Whether such records still exist is a good question. Good luck on that one.

BTW, how do you "operate" a boxcar? Other than rolling it back and forth......;-)


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 Post subject: Re: C&NW 284 saved; will be restored to operation!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:22 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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Yes, as opposed to static display.


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 Post subject: Re: C&NW 284 saved; will be restored to operation!
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2017 5:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2126
Location: Northern Illinois
David H. Hamley wrote:
Since freight cars were required to be individually weighed to determine what weight should be stenciled on each car for tariff purposes, it stands to reason that the month and year of construction SHOULD also be marked individually on each car. Whether such records still exist is a good question. Good luck on that one.


We've had this discussion years ago concerning Soo Line boxcars... an eager beaver member took exception to the built date printed on the Soo Society's pre-decorated fund-raiser model, because it didn't match the published roster. Problem is, the lettering art was prepared from a photo. The roster showed one date for the whole series of cars, but the construction was spread over several months, and the first of each month Pullman-Standard's paint shop changed the date stencil. Most railroads maintained a file with information on each individual car. The key question is if they still exist.

Les,

The C&NW Historical Society has a pretty good archives... why not enlist their aid? They've been helpful to us at Accurail. The general contact e-mail for their archives is:

archives@cnwhs.org

The reply will likely be from Jeff Eggert. See if they have individual car records (often an index card file, but I don't know about the Cheap & Nothing Wasted). Otherwise they may have photos that will narrow down the date.

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 Post subject: Re: C&NW 284 saved; will be restored to operation!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:15 am 

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:25 am
Posts: 53
Les Beckman wrote:
We've got a question about the repainting and lettering of C&NW #284. Here is a photo of a sister PS-1 boxcar, probably taken at Pullman-Standard's plant in Michigan City, Indiana:

http://canadianfreightcargallery.ca/cgi ... cnw7&o=cnw

The built date on CNW #7 is shown as 10-53. Due to the deterioration in paint quality through the years, we can no longer read the built date on #284. Would Pullman-Standard have put the same built date on the entire 625 cars in this series (which were numbered 1-625), even if some of the cars came out in later months? Could P-S even have built 625 cars in one month? Does anyone have any idea as to the production schedules of PS-1 40' box cars in those days? Or have a photo of a car later in the series that shows a built date?

We'd like to at least put a "most likely correct" built date on the car. Thanks for any help that can be offered.

Les


Since IRM was originally supposed to get CNW 284, someone went ahead and did the research. You're welcome.

http://www.irm.org/gallery/view_photo.p ... m90&id=awn


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 Post subject: Re: C&NW 284 saved; will be restored to operation!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:35 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5022
Jeron -

Thanks very much for the info showing an October 27, 1953 built date for C&NW #284! Appreciate IRM's efforts, and your finding the card.


Les


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 Post subject: Re: C&NW 284 saved; will be restored to operation!
PostPosted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:20 pm 

Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:25 am
Posts: 53
Les Beckman wrote:
Jeron -

Thanks very much for the info showing an October 27, 1953 built date for C&NW #284! Appreciate IRM's efforts, and your finding the card.


Les



Bob Kutella found the card and uploaded it to his member gallery. I just happened to remember seeing it a while back.


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 Post subject: Re: C&NW 284 saved; will be restored to operation!
PostPosted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:26 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5022
CTA4453 wrote:
Les Beckman wrote:
Jeron -

Thanks very much for the info showing an October 27, 1953 built date for C&NW #284! Appreciate IRM's efforts, and your finding the card.


Les



Bob Kutella found the card and uploaded it to his member gallery. I just happened to remember seeing it a while back.


Jeron -

Considering the amount of photos in Mr. Kutella's IRM member gallery, I am impressed with your memory! Thanks again. And say "Howdy!" to Bob from me, the next time you happen to see him.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: C&NW 284 saved; will be restored to operation!
PostPosted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:29 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5022
Dennis Storzek wrote:

The C&NW Historical Society has a pretty good archives... why not enlist their aid? They've been helpful to us at Accurail. The general contact e-mail for their archives is:

archives@cnwhs.org

The reply will likely be from Jeff Eggert. See if they have individual car records (often an index card file, but I don't know about the Cheap & Nothing Wasted). Otherwise they may have photos that will narrow down the date.


Dennis -

I DID receive an e-mail from Jeff Eggert of the C&NWHS and he confirmed the October 1953 built date. He also told me that one of the other 40' boxcars (CNW #24135) was still located at Lawrence Foods in Elk Grove Village, Illinois.

Les


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 Post subject: Re: C&NW 284 saved; will be restored to operation!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 1:07 am 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5022
Recent work at HVRM on C&NW #284 is shown in these photos.

Mark needed the roof walks taken off so that he could clean the roof before he primes and then paints it. The first photo shows Bob Albert on 9/2/17, cutting the rivet heads off and punching out the balance of the rivet. Bob only finished removing about half of the walk that day.

The second photo was taken on 9/9 and shows that, as of the break for lunch, Bob had only the very end section to remove.

Mark WAS able to clean and prime both ends of the car and the results of the "B end" is shown in the 3rd photo.

Incidentally, there was a morning Board of Directors meeting at the museum on 9/9 and the question was raised as to whether the roof walks should be reinstalled on the car after it is painted, or just left off. The Board voted to reinstall them.

The question now is where the stencils for the two "slogans" on the side of the car will be secured from.

Les


Attachments:
Coolish September start at HVRM 9-2-17 004.JPG
Coolish September start at HVRM 9-2-17 004.JPG [ 275.45 KiB | Viewed 1325 times ]
Fixin em up at HVRM 9-9-17 008.JPG
Fixin em up at HVRM 9-9-17 008.JPG [ 283.28 KiB | Viewed 1325 times ]
Fixin em up at HVRM 9-9-17 001.JPG
Fixin em up at HVRM 9-9-17 001.JPG [ 279.21 KiB | Viewed 1325 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: C&NW 284 saved; will be restored to operation!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:57 am 
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Location: Orrville, OH
Les Beckman wrote:
The question now is where the stencils for the two "slogans" on the side of the car will be secured from.


Les,
If you get stuck for a source, part of my business is rail-related vector artwork for signs, decals, models, cut vinyl lettering and adhesive stencil masks. Most of the time working from photos as drawings are a rare luxury. Shoot me a PM if you have an interest.

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Eric Schlentner
ORHS
http://www.orrvillerailroad.com


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 Post subject: Re: C&NW 284 saved; will be restored to operation!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:37 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2126
Location: Northern Illinois
Les Beckman wrote:

The question now is where the stencils for the two "slogans" on the side of the car will be secured from.

Les


Did you ask Jeff at the CNWHS Archive? I'm under the impression that they have a goody number of drawings, and will supply them as scans, in PDF format, I believe. A vinyl cutting sign shop (for stencils) might be able to work with them directly.

As Ted Anderson of the Pullman Library at IRM stated in this thread seven years ago, they may have the "Stenciling" drawing, but this would be for placement, not the actual stencil. My experience with the Pullman drawing collection is the actual drawings for the letterforms came directly from the railroad, and were not retained. So if drawings exist anywhere, it would the the CNWHS collection.

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Dennis Storzek


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 Post subject: Re: C&NW 284 saved; will be restored to operation!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 5:55 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5262
Location: southeastern USA
Les Beckman wrote:
Incidentally, there was a morning Board of Directors meeting at the museum on 9/9 and the question was raised as to whether the roof walks should be reinstalled on the car after it is painted, or just left off. The Board voted to reinstall them. Les


Y'know Les, I'm kind of scratching my head having read this, wondering if I should be amazed at the support your BOD shows for sweating all the details of even simple painting projects, or appalled that they are spending time micromanaging such things instead of working harder on grant applications, development, and policy making.
Whatever it is, it seems to work for you. Best wishes.

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"Techies never minded eating bits and jots of their work. They were grit and grease inside and out and could turn a pile of junk into a magical kingdom."

Andrea Hairston


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 Post subject: Re: C&NW 284 saved; will be restored to operation!
PostPosted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 10:03 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5022
Received the attached photo from Mark today. Obviously he has spent this beautiful Sunday working on C&NW 284. He has cleaned and primed one end of the roof of the car. The man's on a mission!

Les


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Sept 10 2017 002.JPG
Sept 10 2017 002.JPG [ 348.02 KiB | Viewed 1185 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: C&NW 284 saved; will be restored to operation!
PostPosted: Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:44 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
Posts: 5022
Update from this past Saturday. First photo shows Mark cleaning the door and surrounding area on one of the cars doors, while the second photo shows the door on the opposite side already done.

Les


Attachments:
Summer makes comeback 9-16-17 006.JPG
Summer makes comeback 9-16-17 006.JPG [ 337.39 KiB | Viewed 1037 times ]
Summer makes comeback 9-16-17 005.JPG
Summer makes comeback 9-16-17 005.JPG [ 273.89 KiB | Viewed 1037 times ]
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