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 Post subject: Pullman troop sleeper color test
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 10:02 am 

Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:07 am
Posts: 101
We decided to do a color test of the "Pullman Green" we ordered using PPG paint codes.

We started out painting one panel but decided to do one whole side of the car to get a good test. It will all be recoated after the window blanks are cut out and the door replaced, etc.

I realize there are different variations of Pullman Green, but is this a little light? It is in bright direct sunlight so that effects it a bit.

Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper color test
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:23 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 21, 2008 8:29 pm
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I think it looks VERY light to me. It looks more like something the Army would have used to paint trucks then Pullman.

Where did you get the PPG paint codes? Is this one of those deals where somebody scanned a swatch of Floquil Pullman green? Because Floquil has never to my eye been an appropriate color.

Beyond the color you have to wonder about how the paint was finished on the troop sleepers. Literature will tell you that the Pullman cars received several coats of varnish that were "leveled" to make the finish very glossy. I know from my profession that clear finishes will change the appearence of the paint substantially. Old varnish recipes were very "amber" colored. You might want to mask off an area and put about three coats of Spar (or similar) varnish on it...just to see what the end result is (just make sure it is as glossy and smooth as possible). Did treep sleepers get that same level of finish? I am sure it is written somewhere.

T7


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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper color test
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:36 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:12 am
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Location: cheyenne
Looks very light to me....its a very dark olive and looks almost brown in some light.

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper color test
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:03 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 8:51 pm
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Location: Southern California
It also looks light to me.

I got out my copy of the Klambach booklet Pullman Paint and Lettering Notebook by Arthur D. Dubin (1997). In the back of this there are print copies of official Pullman paint drift cards. There is a whole page noting the source, the current location of the collection, the visual perception of colors (i.e. small samples vs large areas). Also noted is the affect of lighting, source of lighting and models v. full-size.

The sample of Pullman green appears to be a darker olive green than in the photo.

But the photo appears to be taken in full sun. As discussed here before, the appearance of Pullman Green varies with the lighting, time of day, bright sun v. overcast, etc.

Find or obtain a color sample and hold it up to the car. If nothing else, use the Pentone system which many people use for color documentation.

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Brian Norden


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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper color test
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 4:16 pm 

Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2009 4:12 am
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Location: cheyenne
I would happily send u a sample of the color mixed for me PM me

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper color test
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:43 pm 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:19 am
Posts: 541
Location: Scottsboro, AL
This is our version of Olive Drab. I deliberately don't refer to it as "Pullman Green" to avoid that particular debate, although a Pullman color sample was consulted at some point early in the process. This photo dates to shortly after the car was painted, and is on the north side, out of direct sunlight. The other side of the car, which generally does receive direct sunlight, has since shown some slight fading. One thing that I have detected is a tendency for the green to appear lighter in bright sun. Paint is a Sherwin-Williams acrylic product.

Alan Maples
Everett Railroad


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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper color test
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:16 pm 

Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2008 12:58 pm
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Location: Chicago USA
Are you able to turn the car periodically?


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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper color test
PostPosted: Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:04 pm 

Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2006 9:07 am
Posts: 101
The code I gave was 66571 which crossed to a valspar 343D-6. I did one panel and it looked a little light but others in our group had no problem with it so I shot the whole side. Me want to go darker. :)

Somebody asked about turning it, it is a static display.


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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper color test
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:43 am 

Joined: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:19 am
Posts: 541
Location: Scottsboro, AL
For what it's worth, a Conrail 1992 material supply catalog states: "Paint - Pullman Green in 5 gal cans - for business cars and locos - Valspar Company - AXG070"

I suspect Conrail used "Pullman" in a generic sense.

Given how much paint formulations have changed over the years, cross referencing a manufacturer's number may be problematic.

- Alan Maples


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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper color test
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:58 am 

Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:47 am
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Location: Brighton, CO
To me the color is very light. When I was stationed at Ft Lewis Washington in the early 1960's these cars including Kitchen Cars and Hospital cars were stored at the post railyard. They were much darker. I will try to find my photos.

Bill

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Bill Canelos
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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper color test
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:29 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
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Location: Northern Illinois
I agree, the sample in the photo looks like "pastel Pullman Green". Back when there used to be a lot of different alkyd enamels, I noticed that there were two distinctly different weathering patterns; some Pullman greens turned more yellow as they aged, becoming a light olive. Others became darker, some almost black. NONE of them turned the grayed out color in the photo.

Isn't there any existing paint that can be matched to on top of window sash, or doors, or covered by hardware?

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Dennis Storzek


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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper color test
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:57 am 
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Location: Orrville, OH
I've learned that it's next to impossible judge color using an image. Too many variables. Pullman's "green" varied a bit over the years and the DuPont Dulux colors weathered quickly making it harder to judge. I have five Dulux codes but I can't vouch for the colors since I have no samples. The two latest codes I have are for Dulux 88-4558 or 88-5502. Those will be tough to cross to any current formulation or brand.

The PPG/Ditzler equivalents were 42791 and 81649 respectively. You'll likely have better luck with PPG of maybe getting close using those color codes. How it looks to you will be subjective, though. Your local PPG coatings supplier should be able to work with the lab to come up with something close using those codes.

Disclaimer - I'm not promoting PPG, just relating my experience with how easy they've been to work with when researching colors but your experience may vary....

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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper color test
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 12:41 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 12:59 pm
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Termite7 wrote:
Beyond the color you have to wonder about how the paint was finished on the troop sleepers. Literature will tell you that the Pullman cars received several coats of varnish that were "leveled" to make the finish very glossy. .... Did treep sleepers get that same level of finish? I am sure it is written somewhere.

The troop sleepers were needed for the war effort. I doubt that the buyer would have cared about a "leveled" glossy finish, or wanted to wait for it to be applied.


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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper color test
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:34 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2067
Location: Northern Illinois
Al Stangenberger wrote:
Termite7 wrote:
Beyond the color you have to wonder about how the paint was finished on the troop sleepers. Literature will tell you that the Pullman cars received several coats of varnish that were "leveled" to make the finish very glossy. .... Did treep sleepers get that same level of finish? I am sure it is written somewhere.

The troop sleepers were needed for the war effort. I doubt that the buyer would have cared about a "leveled" glossy finish, or wanted to wait for it to be applied.


The "buyer" was the Pullman Co. and as far as I know, they tried to maintain their high standards of service, same as any other sleeper. The Pullman Library at IRM should have the drawing list and specifications for these cars. It would be interesting how the "Paint and Finish" section reads.

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 Post subject: Re: Pullman troop sleeper color test
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:42 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm
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Dennis Storzek wrote:
Al Stangenberger wrote:
Termite7 wrote:
Beyond the color you have to wonder about how the paint was finished on the troop sleepers. Literature will tell you that the Pullman cars received several coats of varnish that were "leveled" to make the finish very glossy. .... Did treep sleepers get that same level of finish? I am sure it is written somewhere.

The troop sleepers were needed for the war effort. I doubt that the buyer would have cared about a "leveled" glossy finish, or wanted to wait for it to be applied.


The "buyer" was the Pullman Co. and as far as I know, they tried to maintain their high standards of service, same as any other sleeper. The Pullman Library at IRM should have the drawing list and specifications for these cars. It would be interesting how the "Paint and Finish" section reads.


Dennis - I believe you are right. Of the 30 bunks in a Troop Sleeper, the separate upper bunk on one end was for the Pullman Porter. He had a supply of linens in the car, and from my understanding, provided new linens each day, just as if the car was a regular Pullman sleeping car. The one thing I have never found out, is if those Porters assigned to Troop Sleepers, serviced just that one car, or if they also provided service for an adjoining car.

Les


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