It is currently Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:41 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: GG1s
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:41 pm 

Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:29 pm
Posts: 1063
Location: Youngstown, OH
I still don't understand how discussing a GG1 seems to offend some people here. There has never been a requirement to participate in every discussion. It is possible to simply not partake in a discussion in which you think is not productive.

ADM, you are a libertarian but display authoritarian tendencies when it comes to discussing GG1s, as in we should not be doing so. I think what makes this topic appealing is that it is an engineering challenge, different from the mundane boiler repairs and power assembly changeouts that everyone deals with. Yeah probably such a conversion would never happen, but it does no harm to talk about it.

_________________
Rick Rowlands
Steel Industry Preservationist, Narrow Gauge Railroader and ALCOhaulic


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GG1s
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:15 pm 

Joined: Sun Mar 24, 2013 11:29 am
Posts: 52
There was talk of 4935, many years ago,traction motors,many other things,they or if only the one can't run,U will not see one run again,that's all there is to it


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GG1s
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:35 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 02, 2015 11:34 pm
Posts: 165
Is there a serious reason why none of the museums in the last 30 years have ever tried a fundraiser for a G. It would seem insane that we always have these steam restorations in upwards of $1 million being done but no room for a potential wild card. I bet within a good year Stasburg could come up with the money given the project is well advertised and organized. The railroad industry would make a huge fortune for a stunt like that. The best thing they can go right now is attempt an operational restoration and if they fail at least they can they gave it their best. What's the cost in that? Are we afraid of failure? They're 16 of them around for god's sake.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GG1s
PostPosted: Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:45 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8395
Location: Baltimore, MD
Part of the problem is that I regularly converse, and even partake in an occasional pint of ale with, one of the very individuals that would be part and parcel of the approval process for any operable GG1 on the Northeast Corridor.

He's a card-carrying railfan. He likes trains. And the GG1.

And I have had my ears blistered by a long litany of why it will never happen, logistically, technically, and legally. And this is someone on "our" side.

To have a "serious" GG1 restoration, you need the cooperation of Amtrak--or maybe, as some long shot, NJ Transit or SEPTA. The "serious" fundraisers for "big steam" in the past had with them the promise of a place to run when they were finished--from 759 to 4449 to 614 to 3751 to 611 and 1218 to 700 to 261 to 1522. We don't have that yet with a GG1.

Now, having said that, ages ago I was treated to a long litany of reasons from a Conrail official, and later a NS official, why we would never see steam return to the Horse Shoe Curve, not after a reduction to three tracks..........


You know, I get ticked off at the lottery, too. A lottery, as run by the states, is a tax (but voluntary, mind you) on people who suck at math. The concept preys on getting hopes up in people who are in need, falsely selling them a smidgen of hope. And the government empowers itself to have a monopoly on this arguably immoral tactic, ostensibly to fund programs like education and senior citizens (but really letting them take that money they would have had to allocate to said programs and freeing it up to spend elsewhere).

But at least lotteries do have winners. Of all the "beautiful fantasy" locomotive-reactivation project proposals, a GG1 has to be the longest of the long shots out there, as long as Amtrak as operated in a 2017 legal, security, regulatory, and risk environment can be envisioned.

So start playing that lottery. Maybe you'll win the cubic dollars needed for this project.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GG1s
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:50 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 11:26 am
Posts: 3747
Location: Maine
States could draw a cent from each lottery ticket sold and dedicate it to a historic preservation fund, for which 501c3's could apply annually. Railroad preservation would tuck very nicely into that heading, and significant funding could be raised through voluntary contribution in this manner. People generally don't check off special causes on their income tax, but they'll jump into a fast buck dream without hesitation.

_________________
"It's only impossible until it's done." -Nelson Mandela


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GG1s
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:23 am 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 5:58 pm
Posts: 874
[quote="Rick Rowlands"]I still don't understand how discussing a GG1 seems to offend some people here. There has never been a requirement to participate in every discussion. It is possible to simply not partake in a discussion in which you think is not productive.

what he said.....swap out GG1 and insert 1361,759, or any other topic that gets you POed....if you don't like the subject,then move on.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GG1s
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 3:47 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8395
Location: Baltimore, MD
Richard Glueck wrote:
States could draw a cent from each lottery ticket sold and dedicate it to a historic preservation fund, for which 501c3's could apply annually. Railroad preservation would tuck very nicely into that heading, and significant funding could be raised through voluntary contribution in this manner. People generally don't check off special causes on their income tax, but they'll jump into a fast buck dream without hesitation.

"A cent from each lottery ticket sold" actually amounts to a substantial amount of the revenue returned to state coffers in most states.

I'm not saying this can't be done, but in most states lottery revenues are specifically directed, by law, to support specific programs--education, senior citizens, etc. You will probably need to pass special legislation to make this happen.

Britain has the Heritage Lottery Fund, discussed in this forum before. It's been a big help to some rail preservation projects.

The reality is, however, that such a fund draws, or will draw, requests from thousands of worthy history projects nationwide, of which rail would be a piddling presence at best. A fund like this would be good for projects of national scope (say, another Freedom Train in 2026, a national rail library, recovery from the B&O Museum roof collapse, etc.), but I strongly suspect the replication of a GG1 (and that's what we're talking about here, NOT restoring an original to operation as original) would fail the "historical" aspects of such grants on several fronts.

Never mind that it would be competing against such things as the bus Rosa Parks (supposedly) sat in, Native American sacred sites, Elvis' birthplace, Civil War field hospitals, any number of "historic districts" large and small, oral history projects all over, the works of various noted architects, the last original Bob's Big Boy or Wendy's, etc.

No, someone has to win the Powerball and then say they're spending their winnings on making a GG1 work.......


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GG1s
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:51 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 7:19 am
Posts: 5262
Location: southeastern USA
OK, let's consider the other option: take any operating locomotive frame and replace the body with one styled to replicate a GG1. If you started with a diesel, you wouldn't need an electrified line....... I think a GE centercab would be a natural sacrificial beginning, but you'd need really long shank couplers.

_________________
"Techies never minded eating bits and jots of their work. They were grit and grease inside and out and could turn a pile of junk into a magical kingdom."

Andrea Hairston


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GG1s
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 6:00 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2004 2:50 pm
Posts: 2126
Location: Northern Illinois
Dave wrote:
OK, let's consider the other option: take any operating locomotive frame and replace the body with one styled to replicate a GG1. If you started with a diesel, you wouldn't need an electrified line....... I think a GE centercab would be a natural sacrificial beginning, but you'd need really long shank couplers.


Kinda like a steam outline Crown, eh?

_________________
Dennis Storzek


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GG1s
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:23 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 240
Alexander D. Mitchell IV wrote:
Part of the problem is that I regularly converse, and even partake in an occasional pint of ale with, one of the very individuals that would be part and parcel of the approval process for any operable GG1 on the Northeast Corridor.


Mr. Mitchell - What is the likelihood that your drinking buddy and his colleagues will still be calling the shots 20 or 25 years down the road? Even if an effort to get a GG1 operational started right now, that is probably about how long it will take.

As for securing track access, for the GG1 the process would likely be a bit different because the places where it could really stretch its legs, NEC, SEPTA, NJ Transit, are some of the most heavily travelled sections of passenger trackage in the US. Any group willing to put the time, effort, and money in so they can scream out, "Its ALIIIIIIVE" in their best Gene Wilder impersonation will have do an extensive set of monitored test runs to even be considered safe to both people and equipment and reliable enough to venture out on the high line at the speeds that would be required to not disturb the regular operating schedule. This will have to be done on lesser traveled routes with a diesel electric in tow to provide the power or possibly by temporarily equipping the GG1 with a hot shoe so it can run on track powered by a third rail.

As for replacing the guts of a GG1 to get one running, my apprehension would be that it would no longer have the distinctive sound of a GG1 at speed which is a key part of the interpretive experience of an operational GG1.

In Mr. Glueck's thread, Mr. Redden mentions the possibility that their was some experimentation with a fabricated replacement frame for a GG1. Preserving as much information as possible about this testing of fabricated frames would be a worthwhile endeavor in of itself for anyone wishing for a Young Frankenstein moment.


Last edited by Scranton Yard on Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GG1s
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:27 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 03, 2004 9:42 pm
Posts: 2435
Dave wrote:
OK, let's consider the other option: take any operating locomotive frame and replace the body with one styled to replicate a GG1. If you started with a diesel, you wouldn't need an electrified line.


Tyco predicted that future back in the 1970's...

Attachment:
20110623224549_GG1_Pennsy_Olive.jpg
20110623224549_GG1_Pennsy_Olive.jpg [ 173.71 KiB | Viewed 565 times ]


Or, more precisely, they did the same thing in model form. "What if we just take one of our diesels and..."


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GG1s
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:29 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 22, 2004 1:51 pm
Posts: 8395
Location: Baltimore, MD
Scranton Yard wrote:
Mr. Mitchell - What is the likelihood that your drinking buddy and his colleagues will still be calling the shots 20 or 25 years down the road? Even if an effort to get a GG1 operational started right now, that is probably about how long it will take.


The preponderance of the evidence over the past 60 years suggests that matters will get appreciably MORE difficult, not easier.

We've gone from several major railroads hosting their own excursion programs (ex.: Reading, CB&Q, UP, SR, Chessie) to one seemingly half-heartedly running what passes as one. We've gone from railroads freely letting steamers be broken in on freights to one major railroad not even allowing a DEAD steamer to traverse its track. We've gone from NRHS Chapters being able to conjure imaginative excursions that appeal to both the public and railfans and going to the railroad to charter them to no such options even for the legitimate passenger carriers left.

And I haven't even mentioned PTC, what few cars will be available, HEP generation, etc.

As the expression goes among a lot of older railfans, ETTS: "Everything Turns To [Excrement]."

I'd love to be proven wrong. But until I am, I (and lots of others) are going to clutch our wallets tightly.


Offline
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: GG1s
PostPosted: Tue Sep 26, 2017 10:51 pm 

Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2014 10:08 am
Posts: 240
Mr. Mitchell - thank you for providing the second half of your thesis. Of course, the one possible alternative future is one with a partially or fully privatized Amtrak, in which case track access may be easier if one can afford to pay to play. Profit motive is a funny thing. For a passenger line that does not run 24/7 like a freight hauler, there may be dollars in selling late night/early morning and weekend slots, as long as the equipment has proven itself to meet some minimum standard of safety and reliability.

I can not blame you for clutching your wallet on this one, but, as Mr. Rowlands has said, there is no harm in discussing realistic technical challenges (such as problematic frame cracks, their causes and possible solutions, sourcing of transformers, and alternative power sources) as a social and intellectual exercise. Have a great evening.


Offline
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


 Who is online

Users browsing this forum: airforcerail, Bing [Bot], crij, Google [Bot], philip.marshall, rusticmike6, Yahoo [Bot] and 67 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: